If all Peters was guilty of was making a fan film, there wouldn't be any guidelines, and we might well have Axanar to watch at our leisure.
You seem to think that my ire is misplaced. I still don't. After all, it may even be legal for Star Trek Continues to make a million dollars and CBS and Paramount could look the other way, while Axanar could break even and make no profit at all or even lose money and CBS and Paramount could still legally block Axanar's production for copyright infringement.
I have, BTW, looked at other sites on the net and pretty much still see no definitive proof either way.
I believe it's non sequitur because it wasn't a legal issue I brought up, and therefore it doesn't address my point of contention, which is the source of my displeasure - i.e. the apparent hypocrisy of CBS and Paramount, and/or also that while you or others could directly provide the points one may feel would certainly change my mind and lead me to believe I shouldn't be angry at CBS or Paramount, one would instead almost unfailingly continue to be vague or just suggest the reasons are out there - if I would just go look some more, rather than list the actual reasons. Since you seemed so certain you knew what information would demonstrate my anger was misplaced when you suggested reading the last 1546 pages would probably change my mind, I find anything short of offering the specific information you had in mind when you wrote that to be a non sequitur. I mean, if you can say I would change my mind if I knew this or that, telling me this or that would be far quicker than another post which fails to do that, but just strings me along by suggesting I can find it elsewhere. But I have already looked elsewhere and did not find what you seem to feel is definitive information that would turn the tables here.
You seem to think that my ire is misplaced. I still don't. After all, it may even be legal for Star Trek Continues to make a million dollars and CBS and Paramount could look the other way, while Axanar could break even and make no profit at all or even lose money and CBS and Paramount could still legally block Axanar's production for copyright infringement. I believe you said yourself they could do that since uniform enforcement of copyright infringement is not a legal requirement. I suspect you may even be right about that. But again, what is legal or illegal here isn't exactly the source of my displeasure. It's that I feel their offered reasons for doing it are dishonest and they have lied about their true motives - not that they can't "legally" lie their asses off, be less than honest about their motives, or selectively or unevenly enforce their copyrights. This makes me angry.
I have, BTW, looked at other sites on the net and pretty much still see no definitive proof either way. Not being able (or willing) to become a copyright lawyer and/or a forensic accountant myself, anything short of which just suggests to me one isn't really qualified to say with authority who's in the wrong, this instead is just an exercise in reading what various laymen with subjective opinions say. Their reasons are probably formed from believing what "he said" rather than what "she said," so to speak, most of which were all made without any real proof. So interested parties on both sides picked a side not rigorously based upon the facts, which they don't have, so much as on hearsay or rumors or other subjective and likely preexisting reasons, so I doubt looking at more contradictory sites about this subject will quell my anger. I have seen both sides. I am still angry.
However, I can see for myself that something like Star Trek Continues or other fan fictions still violate some of those draconian parameters that CBS and/or Paramount flung forth, and they seem fine with it, while a higher quality production like Axanar seems to be getting flack for what I can only conclude are various reasons other than those stated. Speculations as to what those motives are may abound, of course, but there does appear to be inconsistencies, hypocrisies, and dishonesties on the part of CBS and Paramount. This makes me angry. Now I don't know exactly why, or what proof you have that those directly related to Axanar productions are bigger assholes, so I cannot make fair comment on that. I can say your opinion of what some Axanar fans say or think, however, may not accurately reflect what those on the Axanar production team thinks, or what all supporters of the Axanar project may think. What I do know is that the Axanar team was making a Star Trek production which seemed, to me, anyway, to be far superior Trek than anything I've seen in many years, including Abrams' three films, which I pretty much loath, but that's another matter.
There may be NO REFUNDS in a humorous and Pythonesque kind of way, but I'm not looking for any, and I don't think the vast majority of contributors are, so I don't really think that's the issue, either.
If fan fiction is inevitable, predictable, beneficial, doesn't logic demand that you be a willing supporter of it? If so, you should find a legal and logical reason to support all fan fiction and push till it gives. You can probably defend that position better than most other men in the thread. So what will it be? Past of future? Tyrannical copyrights or fan fiction freedom? It's up to you. In every revolution, there's one person with a vision.
This is conjecture. For example, suppose Paramount had not put out the guidelines and simply settled with Axanar by requiring them to simply use a disclaimer similar to Guideline #8. If we assume the reports of Alec Peters' mismanagement and malfeasance are true, the project would probably eventually collapse, leaving the fan community far more cautious about supporting such films, and thus suppressing abusive fan project in an equally effective way without damaging the franchise.If all Peters was guilty of was making a fan film, there wouldn't be any guidelines, and we might well have Axanar to watch at our leisure.
As Peters himself had been lobbying hard for guidelines for some time, and his specific abuse of the IP was so profound, it's quite logical to say that Peters/Axanar shares a disproportionate portion of the blame.This is conjecture. For example, suppose Paramount had not put out the guidelines and simply settled with Axanar by requiring them to simply use a disclaimer similar to Guideline #8. If we assume the reports of Alec Peters' mismanagement and malfeasance are true, the project would probably eventually collapse, leaving the fan community far more cautious about supporting such films, and thus suppressing abusive fan project in an equally effective way without damaging the franchise.
My example may be theoretically possible, but I can't actually know that, because it's based on hypothetical circumstances that didn't happen. I would never offer it as a real argument against the guidelines. (Although, this is in part because it's kind of irresponsible to let a project rip off your franchise's fans.)
Similarly, you can't actually know that CBS/Paramount wouldn't have created the guidelines, or that some other project wouldn't have provided them with similar motivations had Axanar and AP never existed. And even if we assume that you're right about what might have happened, the fact that CBS/Paramount might not have taken the same actions in other circumstances does not absolve them of responsibility for those actions.
Not that Alec Peters doesn't deserve anyone's ire. It's just that he deserves it for his own actions, particularly involving Axanar, and not those of CBS/Paramount.
-- That is unless you piss Alec peters off enough that he berates you personally in e-mail and gives you one.NO REFUNDS.![]()
I've done a little Googling on the subject, so I see where you're coming from. I won't disagree with your statement. However, since we're talking about logic, let me put it to you a different way:As Peters himself had been lobbying hard for guidelines for some time, and his specific abuse of the IP was so profound, it's quite logical to say that Peters/Axanar shares a disproportionate portion of the blame.
That STC, Renegades, Horizons and NV were all contributing factors to CBS issuing guidelines is questionable, as each of those productions immediately followed any "suggestions" coming from CBS about their work.
I doubt CBS will formally "relax" the guidelines for sometime.However, what will expressing my displeasure with Alec Peters get me? A refund? Didn't contribute in the first place An apology? Not sure I'd care if he did. Vengeance? Might makes some people happy for a moment, then we'd all realize we're still stuck in the same situation. Alec Peters might be the cause of our guideline problems, but I have no reason to believe that he's the solution. I have better uses for my time and energy.
However, what will expressing my displeasure with Alec Peters get me? A refund? Didn't contribute in the first place An apology? Not sure I'd care if he did. Vengeance? Might makes some people happy for a moment, then we'd all realize we're still stuck in the same situation. Alec Peters might be the cause of our guideline problems, but I have no reason to believe that he's the solution. I have better uses for my time and energy.
Dude, you should really read through everything. It is nobody's job to enlighten you, the information is out there. Everyone agrees that Prelude was a great fan film and MOST of us here wanted to see the next chapters........I would even say the majority of the posters here were fans to start with. What sites have you looked at? Most during the trial just adopted the David vs Goliath bullshit narrative that Axanar put out. Peters ran off almost every talented person that was involved in Prelude. They squandered away 1.4 MILLION dollars.
As for STC making millions or ANYTHING...where did you draw THIS conclusion from? They actually ARE a 501c non-profit. Have you ever looked at Axamonitor? Educate yourself or continue to speak about things completely uninformed, your call.
Alec Peters is not the solution to anything. Anyway, here's a clip from a post on the Axanar FB page. We told CBS they could have Axanar for free. For us it was never about money, but about making great Star Trek. Something we are in the process of doing again. My response "It wasn't yours to begin with". We'll see if that finally gets me banned.
...And when I asserted Axanar hadn't done anything substantially different than other fan fictions, while there are some obvious and glaring differences, I don't think those were the reasons for the suit since others have and are doing, albeit to a lesser degree, some of those same things without being sued by CBS or Paramount. But mostly, regardless of all that, my ire is based upon the "draconian" guidelines and their selective application. Vic Mignogna, for example, may assert Peters violated an unwritten or implicit guideline in 2015, but that hardly justifies Vic or STC violating 5 or more of the now written and explicit guidelines in 2017, or CBS and Paramount letting it slide (assuming they do, as Vic probably expects them to, though they haven't officially said they would) when he wraps up the next four 50+ minute episodes of STC with professional actors who will be paid, some of whom are Trek vetrans. I'm not complaining he intends to do that - or hoping he gets sued or STC gets stopped in its tracks - but I am saying the unfair and uneven application of the copyrights, however legal, is what's pissing me off. If CBS and Paramount knew they had to be, or were going to be compelled to universally apply them to all fan fiction, and not just allowed to pick and choose when to whom they allowed or didn't allow to get away with infractions for ulterior motives or whatever whims they might have at the moment, then I feel almost certain they would have concocted a better set of guidelines and we all would have been happier for it, and the fan base of Trek would have been better served, and the bottom line at CBS and Paramount would likely have been improved, too. IMO, they went about this the wrong way, and attacked what they legally could, even if it wasn't in truth what as actually bothering them about the Axanar project. In the meantime, other fan fictions will (I still assume) be allowed to violate multiple guidelines and CBS/Paramount won't do squat about it, but the Axanar project will be slapped down if they did the same, and many fans' enjoyment of it will be forever diminished. And yes, it's pissing me off, however misplaced any here may feel my anger to be.
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