CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar
- Thread starter Richard Baker
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I made a negative post on my personal site about Axanar. My site disappeared in similar ways. So I have my theory there - but @carlosp knows to only state such things is he has evidence of wrongdoing. If an assumption was made, and then made public, they'd go into another meltdown (not that they need an excuse)
FanFilmFactor has reposted a blog post by Alec Peters regarding Star Trek Continues violating the guidelines:
https://fanfilmfactor.com/2017/06/2...m-guidelines-is-good-for-fan-films-editorial/
https://fanfilmfactor.com/2017/06/2...m-guidelines-is-good-for-fan-films-editorial/
Dear Lord...will this nonsense never end?
Actually, I thought that was fairly reasonable myself.
Just thought I'd say (not having read 1546 previous pages here) that I really liked Prelude to Axanar, and was actually angry at CBS and Paramount's attempts to block this or other fan made projects. Anyway, I hope Axanar will eventually be made.
Nothing but self-serving bullshit, giving praise to and trash-talking both STC and STNV at the same time. Slow Lane should be embarrassed to post that screed, if not outright ashamed.
That implies he's capable of feeling either emotion or self-reflection.
NO REFUNDS.
Go back over the previous pages and you may come to decide that your anger is misplaced.
What do you mean by "Not a comedy writer"? That was my 1st chuckle of the week.NO REFUNDS.
Sounds like a lot more work than you telling me why, if you're so sure my anger is misplaced, not that I'd insist you take that time. But if I'm wrong, and CBS and/or Paramount aren't hypocritically and selectively applying their hastily concocted and seemingly draconian guidelines for fan fiction, I'm not sure it would change my opinion that Prelude To Axanar was pretty damn good, and preventing the Axanar project, or other Trek fan fiction from going forward unhindered, is a disservice to Trek fans everywhere, and would only likely serve to attenuate future fan growth and perhaps diminish the regular cross section of movie goers who love the genre, and thereby lessen the number of available Trek fans, old and new, which could only tend to decrease their box office receipts. Conversely, encouraging fan fiction, or at least leaving it alone, would likely grow the fan base and increase their own returns - Herbert.
I'm not interested in changing your opinion about Prelude. In fact , I share it and was hoping for a really good feature. What I feel is misplaced is your anger at those "draconian" guidelines. The CBS guidelines are far more lenient than the law allows, which is total shutdown of anything that infringes on IP. Copyright protections give copyright holders a guarantee that they will be the only ones that profit off their property. The law does not require copyrights to be vigorously or uniformly enforced. When a production group is cooperative and pro-active in making it obvious that they are using any money they have on the production and not lining their pockets it's easier to look the other way. When a group claims some sort of right to use an IP as "theirs" by right of fandom and repeatedly calls itself an "independent" production, then tries to use funds from commercial fund-raising sites to start up a profit-making venture it's going to be looked at differently.
Even assuming the law does not require uniform application to prevent copyright infractions, common honesty does. It's just dishonest to say we can't have anyone doing A, B, or C ostensibly for reasons D, E, or F, etc., but then selectively allow some people to do just that while preventing others from doing the same. Logic suggests their true reasoning lies elsewhere and therefore they are lying to the public - hence my ire. But it's still my understanding that the Axanar project is not making money or a profit. Furthermore, I don't recall anyone from the Axanar project claiming Trek was "their" property by right - only that their fan fiction was not doing anything substantively different from what other fan fictions have done in the past, and apparently are still being allowed to do. And finally, I still believe by attempting to curtail fan fiction in this manner, it would only tend to cut into their bottom line - not protect it.
Of course there may be more going on of which I am aware that would lead me to believe my disdain toward their hypocrisy is misplaced, but if so, I haven't seen it. You, however, did suggest if I were but to read the previous 1546 pages of this thread that I would indeed find this to be the case. I have to believe if you're that certain this is the case, you could just tell me what salient points I'm missing that would lead me to that conclusion. So far, this has not been offered to a sufficient degree that I would consider as proof. But again, as you say you are not attempting to change my mind, I, also, am not attempting to suggest it is your duty to provide the required information, however illogical V'ger and I may find withholding required information to be, or noting with amusment the greater lengths some people go to argue non sequitur points compared to the relatively lesser effort of simply providing said information.
Of course there may be more going on of which I am aware that would lead me to believe my disdain toward their hypocrisy is misplaced, but if so, I haven't seen it. You, however, did suggest if I were but to read the previous 1546 pages of this thread that I would indeed find this to be the case. I have to believe if you're that certain this is the case, you could just tell me what salient points I'm missing that would lead me to that conclusion. So far, this has not been offered to a sufficient degree that I would consider as proof. But again, as you say you are not attempting to change my mind, I, also, am not attempting to suggest it is your duty to provide the required information, however illogical V'ger and I may find withholding required information to be, or noting with amusment the greater lengths some people go to argue non sequitur points compared to the relatively lesser effort of simply providing said information.
Arguing based on the law is hardly non-sequitor. This is issue does not fit on a bumper sticker. You won't have to read all 1546 pages here. There are plenty of places to look besides this thread and there is obviously a lot going on that you either don't know about or don't acknowledge. If you're really interested in the truth, go look up Axamonitor. I will say that given the leeway copyright law allows in enforcement it stands to reason that those who play nice will be allowed to continue those who insult, belittle and generally act like assholes toward the IP holder while trying to make money off of it is not going to bring good results. You don't have to take my word for any of this, you can find that many Axanar fans do feel they have some sort of ownership over Star Trek and have a right to do things however they like because of their intense fan worship.
I believe it's non sequitur because it wasn't a legal issue I brought up, and therefore it doesn't address my point of contention, which is the source of my displeasure - i.e. the apparent hypocrisy of CBS and Paramount, and/or also that while you or others could directly provide the points one may feel would certainly change my mind and lead me to believe I shouldn't be angry at CBS or Paramount, one would instead almost unfailingly continue to be vague or just suggest the reasons are out there - if I would just go look some more, rather than list the actual reasons. Since you seemed so certain you knew what information would demonstrate my anger was misplaced when you suggested reading the last 1546 pages would probably change my mind, I find anything short of offering the specific information you had in mind when you wrote that to be a non sequitur. I mean, if you can say I would change my mind if I knew this or that, telling me this or that would be far quicker than another post which fails to do that, but just strings me along by suggesting I can find it elsewhere. But I have already looked elsewhere and did not find what you seem to feel is definitive information that would turn the tables here.
You seem to think that my ire is misplaced. I still don't. After all, it may even be legal for Star Trek Continues to make a million dollars and CBS and Paramount could look the other way, while Axanar could break even and make no profit at all or even lose money and CBS and Paramount could still legally block Axanar's production for copyright infringement. I believe you said yourself they could do that since uniform enforcement of copyright infringement is not a legal requirement. I suspect you may even be right about that. But again, what is legal or illegal here isn't exactly the source of my displeasure. It's that I feel their offered reasons for doing it are dishonest and they have lied about their true motives - not that they can't "legally" lie their asses off, be less than honest about their motives, or selectively or unevenly enforce their copyrights. This makes me angry.
I have, BTW, looked at other sites on the net and pretty much still see no definitive proof either way. Not being able (or willing) to become a copyright lawyer and/or a forensic accountant myself, anything short of which just suggests to me one isn't really qualified to say with authority who's in the wrong, this instead is just an exercise in reading what various laymen with subjective opinions say. Their reasons are probably formed from believing what "he said" rather than what "she said," so to speak, most of which were all made without any real proof. So interested parties on both sides picked a side not rigorously based upon the facts, which they don't have, so much as on hearsay or rumors or other subjective and likely preexisting reasons, so I doubt looking at more contradictory sites about this subject will quell my anger. I have seen both sides. I am still angry.
However, I can see for myself that something like Star Trek Continues or other fan fictions still violate some of those draconian parameters that CBS and/or Paramount flung forth, and they seem fine with it, while a higher quality production like Axanar seems to be getting flack for what I can only conclude are various reasons other than those stated. Speculations as to what those motives are may abound, of course, but there does appear to be inconsistencies, hypocrisies, and dishonesties on the part of CBS and Paramount. This makes me angry. Now I don't know exactly why, or what proof you have that those directly related to Axanar productions are bigger assholes, so I cannot make fair comment on that. I can say your opinion of what some Axanar fans say or think, however, may not accurately reflect what those on the Axanar production team thinks, or what all supporters of the Axanar project may think. What I do know is that the Axanar team was making a Star Trek production which seemed, to me, anyway, to be far superior Trek than anything I've seen in many years, including Abrams' three films, which I pretty much loath, but that's another matter.
There may be NO REFUNDS in a humorous and Pythonesque kind of way, but I'm not looking for any, and I don't think the vast majority of contributors are, so I don't really think that's the issue, either.
If fan fiction is inevitable, predictable, beneficial, doesn't logic demand that you be a willing supporter of it? If so, you should find a legal and logical reason to support all fan fiction and push till it gives. You can probably defend that position better than most other men in the thread. So what will it be? Past of future? Tyrannical copyrights or fan fiction freedom? It's up to you. In every revolution, there's one person with a vision.
You seem to think that my ire is misplaced. I still don't. After all, it may even be legal for Star Trek Continues to make a million dollars and CBS and Paramount could look the other way, while Axanar could break even and make no profit at all or even lose money and CBS and Paramount could still legally block Axanar's production for copyright infringement. I believe you said yourself they could do that since uniform enforcement of copyright infringement is not a legal requirement. I suspect you may even be right about that. But again, what is legal or illegal here isn't exactly the source of my displeasure. It's that I feel their offered reasons for doing it are dishonest and they have lied about their true motives - not that they can't "legally" lie their asses off, be less than honest about their motives, or selectively or unevenly enforce their copyrights. This makes me angry.
I have, BTW, looked at other sites on the net and pretty much still see no definitive proof either way. Not being able (or willing) to become a copyright lawyer and/or a forensic accountant myself, anything short of which just suggests to me one isn't really qualified to say with authority who's in the wrong, this instead is just an exercise in reading what various laymen with subjective opinions say. Their reasons are probably formed from believing what "he said" rather than what "she said," so to speak, most of which were all made without any real proof. So interested parties on both sides picked a side not rigorously based upon the facts, which they don't have, so much as on hearsay or rumors or other subjective and likely preexisting reasons, so I doubt looking at more contradictory sites about this subject will quell my anger. I have seen both sides. I am still angry.
However, I can see for myself that something like Star Trek Continues or other fan fictions still violate some of those draconian parameters that CBS and/or Paramount flung forth, and they seem fine with it, while a higher quality production like Axanar seems to be getting flack for what I can only conclude are various reasons other than those stated. Speculations as to what those motives are may abound, of course, but there does appear to be inconsistencies, hypocrisies, and dishonesties on the part of CBS and Paramount. This makes me angry. Now I don't know exactly why, or what proof you have that those directly related to Axanar productions are bigger assholes, so I cannot make fair comment on that. I can say your opinion of what some Axanar fans say or think, however, may not accurately reflect what those on the Axanar production team thinks, or what all supporters of the Axanar project may think. What I do know is that the Axanar team was making a Star Trek production which seemed, to me, anyway, to be far superior Trek than anything I've seen in many years, including Abrams' three films, which I pretty much loath, but that's another matter.
There may be NO REFUNDS in a humorous and Pythonesque kind of way, but I'm not looking for any, and I don't think the vast majority of contributors are, so I don't really think that's the issue, either.
If fan fiction is inevitable, predictable, beneficial, doesn't logic demand that you be a willing supporter of it? If so, you should find a legal and logical reason to support all fan fiction and push till it gives. You can probably defend that position better than most other men in the thread. So what will it be? Past of future? Tyrannical copyrights or fan fiction freedom? It's up to you. In every revolution, there's one person with a vision.
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