CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[ThankYouGeneR]

Hey guys, the amounts like $137 include the shipping costs. So for the $125 donation where you get 3 items, a Patch, Coffee Mug and T-shirt shipped to you is: $17 domestic (U.S.) and $20 International, hence the $137 and $150 values you see. The more the items the more that shipping that's why the $50 perk is only $10 ($60) for shipping because it's just 2 items, a patch and mug.

Hope that helps. I know crowdfunding pretty well, obviously.

Ahhh, now I see the unbolded fine print next to the donation amounts.
$125 -- USD -- 'plus' shipping

I am such a nube regarding crowdfunds because I have left it to, in this production's case, my donating partner to: 1) NOT use my own credit card 2) do all the work, 3) read all the fine print. And for my donating partner's trouble I give what perks there may for the the effort.

And in this production's case 4) have the headache of grumbling about not receiving perks as promised


Otherwise, without a partner I get an address to send money orders. Yup.

 

[urbandefault]

I am frankly surprised they are offering 'making of' videos for the various Axanar snippets.

Absolutely the first thing a donor who got stiffed wants to see is you spent some of that money on 'making of' filming of a few scraps, instead of just making the film.

And now, sell that to them?

Some herbal bitters for your banned coffee in your stolen studio mug, sir?

They haven't actually produced the doc yet. It might end up like its namesake: fully funded but conspicuously absent.

By the way, donors, don't count your perks before they've shipped.

 

[Admiral2]

I believe Scotty said it best in the ST episode, Friday's Child, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

The trust me, give me your money con is getting old, AP.

And yet, it's still working. He keeps doing it because it keeps working.

And yeah, I get that there are shills and super-intriguing strange donation amounts...whatever. Those are all just extensions of the con. Those don't fascinate me as much as the fact that plenty of pledges in that backer list are made in the amounts specified in the perks list, which means perfectly honest and presumably reasonable people are still falling for this bullshit, studio, shills, incentive bids and all, and it blows my mind.

Do they seriously think they're going to get an Axanar film after all this? Do they still believe that? There will be no Axanar film, ever, and at this point the cynic in me thinks there's a simple reason why: ALEC PETERS NEVER INTENDED TO MAKE AN AXANAR FILM, AND HE STILL NEVER INTENDS TO MAKE ONE. Nothing has ever actually stopped him from making one. The lawsuit didn't actually stop him from making it. The settlement doesn't actually stop him from making it. The guidelines don't actually stop him from making it. Not getting the professional actors back doesn't actually stop him from making it. Even his supposed incompetence doesn't actually stop him from making it. He still has plenty of knowledgeable allies who can compensate for what he doesn't know if he'd just let them.

None of that matters. He has no intention of making an Axanar film because he's discovered he can make a million dollars just promising to make one. He's making a living off a twenty-minute talking head piece and saying "There's more to come! Honest Injun!" Studio's not soundproofed? Doesn't matter. He's not making a film. Studio costs too much compared to other studios? Doesn't matter. He's not making a film. As long as he can get people to give him money for just promising things, he's not going waste valuable time, energy or money actually making a film.

"But what about the donation perks, A2? The perks, man!" Yeah, one of those perks is a making-of blue-ray: the story of the making of a movie THAT WILL NEVER BE MADE!!! THE CHUTZPAH!

"But, A2, don't you want to get in on the ground floor of the world's first fan-funded film studio?"

By definition, ANY studio used to make a fanfilm, be it custom-built, scratch-built, leased, rented, computer generated or cobbled together out of old tents is a "fan-funded film studio" as long as fans - either the ones making the film or the ones supporting it's production - paid for it. Industry Studios is not the first fan-funded film studio. It is simply the latest centerpiece in a massive confidence game.

Alec Peters is selling the Brooklyn Bridge. He's telling you he's a Nigerian prince. He's found money and wants to share it with you, but only if you put up money in trust. It is so blindingly obvious this man's only goal is to bilk gullible people out of their money.

(Sigh) Rant over. We now return you to more reasoned discussion...

 

[Krandor]

When watching this campaign, don't pay attention to the $60k number. That is bogus. Pay attention to what is on his "our story page" Which is.

At 100k - they cover half the rent for the studio and think they can come up with the other half and they WILL move at the end of the year.
At 200K - they can cover all the rent for the year and MAY move at the end of the year.

this is only about making it through the end of the year without being evicted. There is no long-term plan for the studio. Even if they raise $200k, they still say the studio may move in 2018.

 

[Krandor]

They haven't actually produced the doc yet. It might end up like its namesake: fully funded but conspicuously absent.

By the way, donors, don't count your perks before they've shipped.

We'll see. AP is saying the doc is pretty much done and will be out by end of April. I'll believe it when I see it. Also no mention of the doc being on youtube so I expect he thinks he can actually charge people for it.

 

[Tom]

So what does you average Joe get by donating to this? If you are from beyond the LA area or even out of the country there is really no incentive to donate. This is the the biggest problem. With fan films you have people that donate from all around the world to get them funded. Do you think anyone wants to pay to see a documentary about Axanar? Just read axamonitor if you want to learn about it.

 

[Tom]

When watching this campaign, don't pay attention to the $60k number. That is bogus. Pay attention to what is on his "our story page" Which is.

At 100k - they cover half the rent for the studio and think they can come up with the other half and they WILL move at the end of the year.
At 200K - they can cover all the rent for the year and MAY move at the end of the year.

this is only about making it through the end of the year without being evicted. There is no long-term plan for the studio. Even if they raise $200k, they still say the studio may move in 2018.

Other questions also, If they stay, what will be there new lease term? (1 year, 2, 3?). How much will they have to pay upfront for the new lease? If they move, then they essentially have to start all over again, where is the money for a new lease somewhere else? More reneovation costs etc.. Donors enjoy those Coffee Mugs they could be a novelty! LOL

Edit, I see they get two 1 year options

 

[ThankYouGeneR]

When watching this campaign, don't pay attention to the $60k number. That is bogus. Pay attention to what is on his "our story page"

huh

So if we can raise $100,000, that means after Indiegogo and payment fees and perks, we will have $75,000 and can pay half the rent for the rest of the year. We think we can then cover the balance with studio rental fees that will allow us to stay through the end of the year. However, this option means we will have to move for 2018 to a more cost effective solution.
................
STRETCH GOAL - $200,000
This allows us to pay the rent and operating costs for the rest of the year - $150,000 for ten months. We can then, at the end of the year, determine if we have the financial capability through donations and studio rental fees, to continue renting the property. If so, we can extend our lease (we have two one year options). If not, then we will have to move for 2018 to a more cost effective solution.

Okay, at least it's not all the We're Gonna Do EVERYTHING And It's Gonna Be Greaaaat smoke and mirrors with other people's money like was done with the other production. This is realistic, with other people's money. Mr. Bawden's influence?

 

[muCephi]

When watching this campaign, don't pay attention to the $60k number. That is bogus. Pay attention to what is on his "our story page" Which is.

At 100k - they cover half the rent for the studio and think they can come up with the other half and they WILL move at the end of the year.
At 200K - they can cover all the rent for the year and MAY move at the end of the year.

this is only about making it through the end of the year without being evicted. There is no long-term plan for the studio. Even if they raise $200k, they still say the studio may move in 2018.

They are planning to move?

Isn't this convenient. "Industry Studios" the nonprofit and "Axanar Productions" the nonprofit will "move", while the facility comes under some for-profit company's management. The nonprofits will float off into on-paper-land, separated from the facility. Yet another fresh business gets produced that is distanced another layer from donors and the history of Axanar Productions.

Any tax issues faced by the former corporations are shed from the new one.

Any binding to the settlement is shed by the new corporation too.

One wonders how the ownership of the studio assets would be transferred to a new for-profit, or whether the rent is so high that everyone involved is looking to just abandon all the investments in place as a write off.

This sounds like Axamonitor fodder.

 

[Krandor]

They are planning to move?
.

Last sentence.

"So if we can raise $100,000, that means after Indiegogo and payment fees and perks, we will have $75,000 and can pay half the rent for the rest of the year. We think we can then cover the balance with studio rental fees that will allow us to stay through the end of the year. However, this option means we will have to move for 2018 to a more cost effective solution."

 

[Noname Given]

Analyzing the crowd funding campaign so far, Alec is not getting the initial surge he needs to sustain this the drive. Beyond the 1k clapper donor, no donor is over $200 so far. This tells me his die hard fans are willing to contribute but will draw the line as to how much they will donate. He need to get some of those higher donations if this is to work .
...

Well, that makes sense (although we all know that at least Johnathan Lane and Mike Bawden could drive down and pick up their 'Perks' - but hey, their Pledges are for show anyway.)

Removes Tin Foil hat...

When watching this campaign, don't pay attention to the $60k number. That is bogus. Pay attention to what is on his "our story page" Which is.

At 100k - they cover half the rent for the studio and think they can come up with the other half and they WILL move at the end of the year.
At 200K - they can cover all the rent for the year and MAY move at the end of the year.

this is only about making it through the end of the year without being evicted. There is no long-term plan for the studio. Even if they raise $200k, they still say the studio may move in 2018.

Lol - didn't read the pitch text on the site. Wow, so effectively, Alec Peters is getting more people to NOT ONLY pay his living expenses, but pay to bail him out of this whole Studio debacle. I mean they CAN'T take the refurbishments (and the what, 500K - 1 Million dollars spent to date on TRYING to get the Warehouse Studio up to code) with them to whatever 'new location' they move to.

I really wonder if he'll see ANY real backlash from Pledgers who say "Hey, what do you mean your closing the current location and moving?" because while I am surprised he's actually getting a total over $12,000 so far, I'll be surprised if they make the goal of even $60,000; but who knows - there seem to be plenty of people who will donate WITHOUT doing any real background check on the people involved.
^^^^
In the end I guess it just goes to show how utterly small public interest in the CBS/Paramount V. Axanar case actually was overall, even in fandom circles.

 

[Sgt_G]

Someone with the user name of "Per Brastad" donated $125. Maybe it's because I'm only half-awake, but when I first saw that I swear I read it as "Poor Bastard".

 

[Tom]

The moving aspect could be a little bit of a bait and switch also. They get money and end up moving to a much cheaper place. The donors wanted to film there would get in a much cheaper place that may not fit there needs. Speaking of this, if i wanted to get the 5k or even 7.5k package so I can film at Industry Studios, if my production is several months away, i am not guaranteed to even be working in that studio. So why would I donate if there is no guarantee? Producers are not going to want to put there production on the line.

 

[Admiral2]

Someone with the user name of "Per Brastad" donated $125. Maybe it's because I'm only half-awake, but when I first saw that I swear I read it as "Poor Bastard".

If he was actually duped into donating, the phrase fits...

 

[Tom]

I almost want to donate $10 just to have fun in the comment section of that campaign (Since Alec cant delete them) . But I can't morally donate once cent to this con man. Some of the comments there are cringe inducing like this one:

"Good to see you guys are moving ahead! Fan films need a refuge like Industry Studios, now more than ever! Thanks for fighting the good fight against the detractors. Can’t wait to see the new projects!"

Like um,i dunno.. Axanar! Thats a new project right? LOL

"Promise kept! Will add more before the month is out."

What promises? To send your money on sushi and carpet squares?

"I’m glad to see things moving along! You haven’t disappointed me yet Alec, so I’m on board again!"

Not disappointed huh, then ask your self were is the dam Axanar film!

These people are truly Kool Aid drinking sheep...Bah

 

[muCephi]

The moving aspect could be a little bit of a bait and switch also. They get money and end up moving to a much cheaper place. The donors wanted to film there would get in a much cheaper place that may not fit there needs. Speaking of this, if i wanted to get the 5k or even 7.5k package so I can film at Industry Studios, if my production is several months away, i am not guaranteed to even be working in that studio. So why would I donate if there is no guarantee? Producers are not going to want to put there production on the line.

Well I guess they have a problem, right? At the end of a lease any improvements they can't take with them are property of the landlord, and the landlord can even charge them for restoration to prior state (ie remove the green screen).

The only way around it that preserves wealth making is to set up another for-profit, win the new lease as a better one, and continuation of the old one somehow so technically the landlord may not be able to demand restoration before the transfer. Have Axanar Productions transfer the assets to the new corporation. Maybe for a buy out fee to the current 100% owner of Axanar Productions.

Then spin off the prior businesses as nonprofits and/or shut them. Operate in small office somewhere, lease out the studio space as needed.

Lots of problems solved.

They could of course let their nonprofits own the assets and have a use fee arrangement with the for profit that is producing native advertising etc, or build credit for "free" use of the facility, or put any buyout money into the nonprofits, but that would surprise me. Its more work and less hidden quick profit from the final taking of the money invested from donors into the studio.

There's no reason they couldn't do this now, if the landlord would accept assignment of the lease to a new corporation. But it wouldn't fit the narrative of the fundraising effort underway, so if there's any such plan it would be after they get what they can. Wait till it ends and then say the are "forced" into this "less than optimal" solution which in effect transfers the donated value of the facility to.. somewhere else.

All this stems from their statement that they would move. I just dont believe that statement on the surface, that they'd walk away from anything they got 'for free'.

I almost want to donate $10 just to have fun in the comment section of that campaign (Since Alec cant delete them) . But I can't morally donate once cent to this con man.

Donate to the future well being of the donors' friends.

 

[Krandor]

Well, that makes sense (although we all know that at least Johnathan Lane and Mike Bawden could drive down and pick up their 'Perks' - but hey, their Pledges are for show anyway.)

Removes Tin Foil hat...



Lol - didn't read the pitch text on the site. Wow, so effectively, Alec Peters is getting more people to NOT ONLY pay his living expenses, but pay to bail him out of this whole Studio debacle. I mean they CAN'T take the refurbishments (and the what, 500K - 1 Million dollars spent to date on TRYING to get the Warehouse Studio up to code) with them to whatever 'new location' they move to.
.

Exactly. It really looks like this campaign is all about making sure he doesn't get evicted before the lease is up and that is it.

The pitch text is quite telling about what he really plans espcially the part where he says he doesn't actually want to rent it out to commercial productions. However, when people complain he will be able to say he told them that was the deal and be right because most of them won't actually read the pitch.

 

[ThankYouGeneR]

What to watch for:
Don't be surprised if you see couple 5k or even 7.5k pop up. This will be someone that is a part of his staff or a friend putting up a high figure to rally everyone else to donate more. That high donor then may retract that high amount at the end or may leave it in with Alec promising to pay him/her back.

This is a crowd funding tactic.

No kidding, dang. Totally another buyer beware thing.

So following that line of thinking it is conceivable that a Franchise fan film maker or vampire fan film maker or an already producing sci-fi webseries film maker who might have already agreed to film at the facility could easily place his/her/their agreed upon rental fee on the crowdfund as a 'donation'. To put up a high figure to rally everyone else to donate more. With perhaps a significant rental break for speaking on a pitch video and donating in the above manner? And use a pseudonym or internet ID if it was wanted to be more layered/removed from transparency. Which I guess could also at an appropriate time be retracted from the crowdfund and payed directly to the defendant to avoid the platform fee too.

This tactic thing is pretty interesting. Conceivably there are multiple ways to manipulate the perception and use of a crowdfund.

Well, that's unsettling.

 

[Harvey]

Hey guys, the amounts like $137 include the shipping costs. So for the $125 donation where you get 3 items, a Patch, Coffee Mug and T-shirt shipped to you is: $12 domestic (U.S.) and $25 International, hence the $137 and $150 values you see. The more the items the more that shipping that's why the $50 perk is only $10 ($60) for shipping because it's just 2 items, a patch and mug.

Hope that helps. I know crowdfunding pretty well, obviously.

I keep forgetting that fulfilment costs are not "baked in" to the costs of perks.

Does that mean, essentially, that Axanar spent money from the last crowdfunding campaigns intended for perk fulfillment on something else like rent and salaries?

 

[Jedi_Master]

I keep forgetting that fulfilment costs are not "baked in" to the costs of perks.

Does that mean, essentially, that Axanar spent money from the last crowdfunding campaigns intended for perk fulfillment on something else like rent and salaries?

Yes. There is also a good chance that they used donated funds to purchase "perks" and then RESOLD those "perks" in the Donor Store... counting on the next wave of fundraising to give them enough to re-purchase those physical items and THEN send them for "free" to the donors.