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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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I'm feeling a bit sad about Axanar's apparent outreach to colleges. Axanar has shown no ability to run a for profit business, and seems to reject the very basic nature of what nonprofit operations actually are, much less know how to implement them...

So how crushed under the wheels are any college programs going to be when they commit their students to this profoundly poorly managed operation? And no that's not badmouthing.

The most basic aspects of actual nonprofit operation are easily accessible, and have also been discussed here and places like Axamonitor... and yet Axanar shows no evidence after *years* that it has any grasp of what it actually has to do in this regard. And it still calls itself nonprofit when it hasn't been approved as such.

The most basic tax and budget management as well as personnel management strategies have seemed to elude Axanar Productions as well, as evidenced by professionals fleeing in droves, the budget wiped out, admissions that the taxes may have been poorly managed, and being sued right out of the gate.

Just taking a step back and looking at this as a college administrator, would you let your profs integrate this operation into your curriculum offerings?

It seems highly likely to me that most public education institutions would have some sort of 3d party vendor vetting process for financial integrity/depth of resource/skills of bench. And since its a public institution with special responsibility to uphold standards as an example to the students, they might have additional ethical conduct safeguards in place to avoid getting entangled in unseemly situations, like vendors who have a record of failing to abide by any laws or standard labor practices, or who have been sued and had to concede misconduct in a settlement, or who cannot certify they abide by EEOC rules etc.

Axanar might find itself in an awkward position when their hot-to-go professors come back with that sheaf of standard vetting questionnaires.

And finally, just imagine the amount of stink you could be in as a college administrator when your student activist committees and activist-sympathetic professors in business and law and media departments find out that you are trying to obtain benefit from an operation that arguably may have made off with a couple million of crowdsourced funds to build a business off of unlicensed IP, and never delivered on its donation proposal.

Imagine how much stink *Axanar* will be in. In public, in classroom debates that glom onto the fascinating unresolved issue of legal protections in the crowdfunding domain.

Now *that* will be popcorn time.
 
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The problem is @muCephi is I have zero proof any of his accounting numbers are more than "fill in the blank" figures. LFIM made a $10,000 budgeted film which after it was all said and done, he stated in Germany that it cost $70,000. A year or so latter it cost $125,000. Oh yea! the rent sucked up $15,000 a month, oh wait $18,000, of course this was all confirmed by Pete and Repete accounting firm (or whatever they are called). I keep getting a feeling that this is what we are all to believe, give me a break! Prepaying a years worth of rent on a so call warehouse "Not zoned to film in"? I mean is there such a thing, aren't warehouses build on at the very least light industrial properties? What type of business manger even does more than first, last and deposit before the property is even made legal to do the type of business you're leasing it for? Nope, you put down a retainer to hold the property until the property owner does the legal work, then the lease starts. Two years ago as a lessor I couldn't even upgrade our building with a fibre optic cable permit.
Really the money or what he did with it is not my concern, it's what his folly imposed on every other fan film studio that bothers me. It's only this thought that keeps rolling around that he'll parlay his Star Trek infringing infrastructure into a for profit venture. I also wouldn't worry about the brand being tainted in the future because it is easy enough for another name to front run the whole thing.
Who knows, maybe in the end whatever comes out of this does create beginner jobs in the film industry and placement for young talent right out of film schools, after a while nobodies going to become concerned if Peters name is connected to it at that point.
Of course I might be 100% wrong but I started my career rebuilding bankrupt companies. It's an old method of wash and rinse that a lot of business leaned towards back in the day. The only difference is the creditors ended up with the short end of the stick and today it's the "Donors". The only question is if LFIM is following that old pattern or did he really blow through that money stake on intangible assets.
 
Axanar's apparent outreach to colleges
I recall reading that the director (forget his name right now) flatly stated they had to use paid professional behind the camera because of the "dangerous work environment". He went on to say they could not allow amateurs, volunteers (regardless of experience) or even college student interns to work on the project due to the liability involved. (Wonder if they ever bought insurance to cover their paid professionals.) .... So, what changed???
 
I recall reading that the director (forget his name right now) flatly stated they had to use paid professional behind the camera because of the "dangerous work environment". He went on to say they could not allow amateurs, volunteers (regardless of experience) or even college student interns to work on the project due to the liability involved. (Wonder if they ever bought insurance to cover their paid professionals.) .... So, what changed???
I guess you could choke on those micro chips if you don't know what you're doing.
 
"If I had the chance to make official Star Trek that fans didn’t like, or make a fan film that true Star Trek fans love more than the official version, I know I would choose the latter."

Gatekeeping
-Gatekeeping - UrbanDictionary: when someone takes it upon themselves to decide who does or does not have access or rights to a community or identity
-the self-appointed “gatekeeper” takes it upon themselves to decide who is a true fan of a thing
-the gatekeeper tries to police and screen other fans by using a set of ultimately arbitrary standards that they came up with on their own.
  • 'You are a true fan if you love this fan film more than the official version'
  • "You can’t be a true fan if you want to question the Thing and open discussion to critique the Thing."
True Fan
-A true fan is somebody who agrees completely with the viewpoint of the person using the term.
-My point of view is the correct one, and if you disagree with me you’re not a true fan
-Your opinion doesn’t matter. These are the rules of a “true” fan
-I always just assumed people who needed to go out of their way to call themselves a "true fan" or tell other people they aren't "real fans" were just jerks.
-Insisting you're the "true" fan of anything requires a certain dedicated level of douchedom
-saying you're a true fan makes an insecure person feel superior
 
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Ok.....

I'm not gonna read all these pages now, but can someone explain to me why this thread is still going so strong, with nearly 1500 pages? I thought this was resolved? Or did I miss something?
 
Ok.....

I'm not gonna read all these pages now, but can someone explain to me why this thread is still going so strong, with nearly 1500 pages? I thought this was resolved? Or did I miss something?
Of course you've missed something. More than a few somethings. He's not called "Lord Foot in Mouth" for nothing, you know.

Besides, we haven't reached page 1701 yet. :techman:
 
A very reasonable question. I hadn't even noticed the Thread had passed 1500 pages. I'll just speak for myself, okay?

While indeed the settlement is, well, settled, and I am comfortable with the settlement, I 'think' technically it still isn't finalized yet because of a time thing for dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's.

I still come here to discuss the aftermath happenings related to the settlement which are still in play.
 
A very reasonable question. I hadn't even noticed the Thread had passed 1500 pages. I'll just speak for myself, okay?

While indeed the settlement is, well, settled, and I am comfortable with the settlement, I 'think' technically it still isn't finalized yet because of a time thing for dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's.

I still come here to discuss the aftermath happenings related to the settlement which are still in play.

Ah, ok. Thanks for that. :)
 
I understand. I think he got off easy too.

Now my own 'preference' would have been more of a justice, so to speak, for what I consider as crimes selfishly perpetrated against our Fandom at large, and our fan film Community and the fans who gave money to him in the specific.

I have thought about this a lot. What I've begun to understand is that part of the reason I think the settlement as-is to be better is that I consider our Franchise best served that CBS & Paramount stopped the Independent Star Trek movie. For I think that if independent ST was allowed, entropy of the Franchise would begin from permitting everyone to set up their own versions and visions of Star Trek's known characters and histories in series form and movies.

But not demand damages.. money. Because it was fans who gave him so much money and indirectly that money could be 'viewed' to as being put in the hands of C&P. Also taking that studio would be perceived as taking money from us again because we paid for it and paid its rent. Thereby causing secondary damages to our Fandom. And we fans are forever in passionate battles over everything 'in' Star Trek already so I just don't think that even the perception that our donated money was being taken by the Studios would work well for us.

While I would have been momentarily satisfied with a hammer of justice, with the settlement as-is I'm less concerned about a residual and secondary long term damages to our Fandom.

I did think about this long and hard before deciding I am comfortable with the settlement though.
 
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I think the thread will keep going for a while as we are all "missing" something - a completed Axanar film, in whatever form it takes.
 
Ok.....

I'm not gonna read all these pages now, but can someone explain to me why this thread is still going so strong, with nearly 1500 pages? I thought this was resolved? Or did I miss something?
@Mage - In a justifiable nutshell:
Dear folks who did some Googling and found this topic. Kudos! And I'm sorry about how long it is and all the references to Cash (cue @Indysolo ). I realize this is a ton to wade through and I imagine this post will get buried, but here's hoping at least someone sees it.

I know you are wondering about Alec Peters's reputation for truthfulness. About whether he fulfills his promises. About whether the Industry Studios space is at all legal or if using Star Trek intellectual property to raise crowdfunding to pay for that studio is kosher or is permitted by the IP holders, CBS and Paramount Pictures Corporation. I imagine you are wondering whether you are spending your hard-earned money wisely, and whether this project will have follow through. Will it have legs? Will fan films truly be able to use that space? Is the space up to code? Are there alternatives out there? Whether you are a potential donor or a potential filmmaker, you have questions. That's why you're here, yes?

Here is what I can tell you, in no particular order:
  • Mr. Peters received over $1.4 million in crowdfunding, and an unspecified additional amount of money to produce a fan film he called Star Trek: Axanar. Except for a two-minute-long walk and talk (referred to as the 'Vulcan Scene'), that movie was never made. There is a prequel to it, called Prelude to Axanar. It's on YouTube.
  • Prelude was created by talent who have nearly all left the project. This included a rather public Twitter squabble with actor Tony Todd.
  • CBS and Paramount sued Axanar and Mr. Peters for intellectual property infringement. It wasn't them 'running scared' or 'trying to take down the little guy' or any other such nonsense. The lawsuit is on PACER or you can head over to Axamonitor.com and get the court documents for free. Don't want to give Axamonitor any traffic? Then PM me and I will send you the documents. I have paid for them and they are a matter of public record. Read them at your leisure; there are lots of them. And they all are sworn documents (under penalty of perjury) and the documents from both sides support the concept that Axanar was sued because it was an infringing work. Period.
  • CBS and Paramount, like every other intellectual property owner, are under no obligation to sue any other fan films or any other infringers, not then, not now, not ever. Don't think that's fair? Then write to Congress and ask them to do something about a good two centuries of copyright law in America.
  • The amount which Mr. Peters received to make Axanar was more than most if not all other Star Trek fan film makers had ever received. Others have made films (sometimes multiple films) with less. Yet he did not finish the film.
  • Instead, he rented a warehouse space and began to attempt to convert it to a studio. Hence the current crowdfunding campaign.
  • There are tons of studio spaces in and around the Los Angeles area. Creative Googling will find you millions of hits if you Google Los Angeles film studio for rent. Peters did not have to convert a warehouse and take on rent of some $15,000/month. The project could have filmed in a number of locations and could have been done or nearly done even before this latest crowdfunding campaign - and a campaign of this magnitude would not have been needed at all.
  • The case with CBS and Paramount has been settled. One of the known terms of the settlement was that Peters could only make Axanar in conformance with the IP holders' stated fan film guidelines. That means two 15-minute-long segments. Even with all of the $1.4 million+ gone (Where did it all go? You might want to start asking that), those two 15-minute segments could still be made with a far smaller crowdfunding campaign and without converting a warehouse into a studio.
  • Earlier crowdfunding campaigns by Mr. Peters, even when running at their best, were still late to deliver perks and showed disturbing behind the scenes disorganization. Consider that when you also consider questions such as:
    • Is the studio space zoned for filmmaking?
    • Are the lighting grid and electrical grid up to code?
    • Has it passed a fire marshall's inspection?
    • Was any of the conversion done by union labor?
    • Does Peters have adequate liability insurance, also fire and flood, in case the unthinkable happens?
    • Peters doesn't own the space. What happens to films in progress, sets, and your crowdfunding dollars if he and his company are evicted?
    • What are the hidden costs of 'free' use of the studio? Does that include trash removal, electricity, etc. (h/t to @ThankYouGeneR)
    • Is the crew trained properly?
And finally, Industry Studios is a business. When you clear away all the fan film smoke and mirrors, it is ultimately a business and not a charity. It seeks to make a profit. Ask yourself what the funding model is, particularly if fan films are going to be able to film for 'free' and there's a ton of competition in the area. The funding model is crowdfunding. Ask yourself if you think that's okay. Ask yourself if having no investor protection is okay. Ask yourself if your money is being spent wisely. Many crowdfunding campaigns are wonderful. Many crowdfunding project runners are honest, hard-working people. I invite you to do the research yourself - please don't take Mr. Peters's word for it. Don't take mine, either. Please do your own research.
And then ask yourself if this is okay.
The lawsuit itself may be over, but the fallout seems to be far from it, so seem to be the lessons that should have been learned by now. Why open a seperate thread for that?
 
Because it was fans who gave him so much money and indirectly that money could be 'viewed' to as being put in the hands of C&P.
Well, the way around that would have been for CBS to take Axanar to the cleaners and return the money to said fan/donors. Any money that couldn't be returned for whatever reason might be donated in Axanar's name to other fan-film project.
 
Well, the way around that would have been for CBS to take Axanar to the cleaners and return the money to said fan/donors. Any money that couldn't be returned for whatever reason might be donated in Axanar's name to other fan-film project.
I don't think CBS/P could have taken AP to the cleaners. He doesn't own anything to speak of; no real estate, no hard assets, and the money is gone.

Making him acknowledge that he was in violation of copyright and conform to the guidelines was the best they could get. Unless there's something in that pile of binders I'm missing . . .
 
Ok.....

I'm not gonna read all these pages now, but can someone explain to me why this thread is still going so strong, with nearly 1500 pages? I thought this was resolved? Or did I miss something?

Hi.. the donors were manipulated into paying for a studio and many "business expenses" (reimbursed 'by paying the rent' after exposed) instead of a film. Many professionals were manipulated into buying into a project that turned out to be a one-person unprofessional show rather than a team effort with responsible finances. The copyright owners were targets of manipulation to try to horn in on their revenue stream as a "professional independent Star Trek" studio. Questioning fans and press were manipulated by an endless parade of false explanations.

Now the same core management is regrouping. They are targeting not only the original donors, but various professionals, fans of Trek and other stories, and even film students.

Is the story over? Have they got religion? Will the IRS pay them a visit? Will the same blowup pattern repeat? I suppose everyone is waiting to see.

To catch up, read axamonitor.com.
 
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I really think that whether this thread ever gets closed or not, the conversation around Axanar and LFIM will not end unless he 1) packs in and tries to disappear 2) dies (not wishing that or anything else bad on him). I'm not sure which is more likely.
 
I'm sure, if this thread closes, another one will be opened. And then somebody appears and asks "Why all of this? Where did you get your information? What's all the fuzz about?"
"Oh, no problem, go and find the CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar thread and all will be explained."
"Where do I find the thread?"
"Look further down the line. It's closed topic"
"But I'm too lazy to look for it. And I'm too lazy to look through all those pages. And what are the Cliffsnotes?"
:barf::censored::brickwall::wah:
 
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