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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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The over-sensitivity to addresses is quite new. Yet, it's funny that to really get an address, all you have to do is type in a person's name and the city you believe they are in, and more often than not, their address is the first thing that pops up. Hell, it's how I remember my dad's address. =P

Yes, it's very new. I'll PM you more details about the specific drama I'm referring to. I'm not afraid of going slightly off-topic, but the event in question is a very volatile, culture-war topic and discussion of it are often banned to avoid flamewars.

So for the sake of this public discussion I'll say that social media, namely Twitter and Facebook, are to blame for the current panic about doxing. Media corporations, big business, etc. have pushed "social media" as some sort of essential for everyone. It's very irresponsible because those sites absolutely suck for privacy and having conversations, and nearly everything else. I think this onslaught of newbs, who don't understand how to separate their internet life from their real life, have been duped by big money into throwing caution to the wind and put it all out there. The only winner is marketers and state security organizations. And now, as the consequences of these poorly-informed decisions are manifesting themselves at an hitherto-now unseen scale (mostly egos being fractured, but some physical harm), all these over-exposed people are is getting super sensitive to "cyber-bullying" and "doxing".

You and I have been cruising the information superhighway long enough to know what a healthy community looks like. One where you know your moderators and admins personally, and the rules are enforced and agreed upon in conversations with the posters, etc. TrekBBS is a great example. Also notice how, as the older netizen generation, most people here use a pseudonym, or take some small measure to distance their online persona from the real deal. And we have some form of containment, so if I hate Voyager I can just avoid the Voyager subforum, for instance. We have defences, and recourse to problems on the internet.

In contrast, Twitter and Facebook throw everyone together, and yet dumb newbs still think they are having private, or personal conversations and can expect privacy, or a right to not be contradicted or argued with ("harrassed"). Reddit has a "CEO" and a board of directors, which makes no sense to me. Why would I, as a poster, need my web forum to be a corporation? What do I get out of it? And Twitter pays invisible, unaccountable moderators people to delete posts with no rhyme or reason. People get harrassed, but their politics determine whether they "deserve" it or not. It's disgusting.

For all these reasons, common sense has gone out the window, and I get the impression all the social media newbs feel very exposed and paranoid and are making crazy demands to social media, police, governments, the UN etc. to save them from scary trolls and doxers. This is a culture-shift in the internet, I think, away from personal responsibility to safeguard one's own privacy toward demanding protection while making oneself extremely vulnerable.

I hadn't even heard the word "dox" before a year-and-a-half. But like the words "blog" and "meme", the word and what it describes isn't going anywhere. Now that the whole fucking world is online, and completely defenceless and ignorant about how to protect themselves, it is prudent to try to be seen as very careful with other's private information. As of late everyone is out to find someone to blame for making them feel vulnerable, don't let it be you!
 
Just a general comment... I Stand With CBS was fun while it lasted. My take was that basically it was a pisstake on the moral fervour of the Axanar fans, a bunch of reasonable people just having a laugh while also making a couple of valid points along the way. There were a couple of wingnuts early on, and a couple more later on, who perhaps should have been on shorter leashes. Also, if not for the fact that the Marines who showed up were so impervious to any kind of communication I'd've thought some of the things said to them were a bit harsh. Didn't look like they realized that, though, or if they did, it let them be Marine martyrs and off they went to their hq with tales of valour and courage in the face of the enemy.

Still not sure about the housedoxing, but I can see some valid points on both sides.

If I was on my laptop I'd end this with a screencap of dying Kirk from Generations with the caption "It was... fun." Pretend it's here.
 
Oh, thank God, I was starting to worry news of that catasrophuck hadn't reached the distant shores of TrekBBS. "I don't see what a big deal it is posting publicly available stuff about people all willy-nilly so the less industrious crazies can have it at their fingertips" is a very pre-... that thing... mindset.

The vilification (including piling on his loved ones) and conspiracy-theorizing combined with a blasé attitude towards posting personal information about people that are developing an internet hate-following is starting to seem really familiar.

Amen. The times, they are a changin'.

I've hung out in the usual troll-hangouts, I've watched people's lives get interrupted and ruined for over a decade. But the scale of such happenings is growing exponentially. There will be huge fallout, for decades more to come, from society’s decision to suddenly force everyone onto social media without any safeguards or training or warning.

Anyone who even appears to be responsible for siccing the troll horde onto some poor victim is inviting a reactionary horde to jump on themselves.
 
Axanards strike again! Can you smell the irony in these?

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Oh, thank God, I was starting to worry news of that catasrophuck hadn't reached the distant shores of TrekBBS. "I don't see what a big deal it is posting publicly available stuff about people all willy-nilly so the less industrious crazies can have it at their fingertips" is a very pre-... that thing... mindset.

The vilification (including piling on his loved ones) and conspiracy-theorizing combined with a blasé attitude towards posting personal information about people that are developing an internet hate-following is starting to seem really familiar.


By the way, the "I'm just asking questions" excuse I've seen so much of in the last few pages is really childish. Your teachers lied to you. Plenty of questions are stupid. "How do I count the moon?" "Why are policemen's hats made of seawater?" "What happens if I post every piece of public information I can find about Alec Peters on a web page full of people who dislike him?"

"What's wrong with asking questions?" is what you say when the answers don't justify your investigations but you don't want to admit being wrong. There's a reason why it's the catch-phrase of a cable-TV idiot.



Like I alluded to above, the combination of the two is really far more disturbing than either on its own (though both are classless, at best).

I personally wish this doc posting hadn't happened, but it wouldn't be appropriate to pick out such data points and therefore label all the very concrete specific quoted-from-Axanar-podcasts-and-fundraisers concerns about how this Axanar business was handled, and call it "conspiracy theory" originated by "haters", if that is the implication.

I just dont see how this point of view helps the Axanar fans. CBS is certain they see very solid legal faults with Axanar, they named those faults, and those faults will have to be answered by something other than calling them "haters" or "jealous". Its not an articulate analysis. And fans can't contribute anything to the Axanar concrete legal defense by doing so, except perhaps to express anger. CBS may care a bit about that but my guess is it wouldn't really sway them to grant a license in the face of the lawsuit claims.

I think it would be more healthy for the Axanar supporters to openly discuss the specific concrete content of what their project is up against, than to be diverted into an "us and them" mentality about anyone who raises any point that challenges the perfection of Axanar. But it is really a choice for the Axanar fans to make.
 
You know, 'I'm sorry for the part I played in the self-destruction of your Facebook group and your potential legal woes' takes a lot less time to type than pages of justifications for a short-sighted decision.

So does 'If Alec's reading this, I'm sorry for siccing the loons on you.'

Well said.
 
Um, because it's not independent corroboration? You simply heard a story from someone else ... that is not independent corroboration. To have an effective independent corroboration, you have to have two people with actual knowledge (typically participants) that, independently, arrived at specific information that is being provided. And that has to be provable in some way.

For instance, someone hears that Ian McKellen is going to be in the X-Men movie, and that person tells both Mary and me separately. Then Mary tells me. I ask Mary the source, and she says the same person that told me. That's not independent corroboration.
I was admin on his forum while he was selling things to buy the house. I saw pictures of the house being built. I know the woman who lives there. You did not ask how I know, just assumed it was a third-hand story. Some journalist. I'm done talking to you.
 
I personally wish this doc posting hadn't happened, but it wouldn't be appropriate to pick out such data points and therefore label all the very concrete specific quoted-from-Axanar-podcasts-and-fundraisers concerns about how this Axanar business was handled, and call it "conspiracy theory" originated by "haters", if that is the implication.

By "conspiracy theories" I meant the suggestions that none of the "perks" or "gifts" or "merchandise" was ever sent out to donors (obviously false), or that that there was never any intention of making a movie and this was all a huge graft from day one (and, I don't know, the photos of sets being built were 'shops). And I've just been following this here, I don't know what more outlandish accusations have been thrown around Facebook or Reddit or wherever (aside from "Maybe bought a vacation home with Kickstarter money," I suppose).

There are plenty of things being said about Alec Peters and the Axanar project that go well beyond any sensible reading of the facts, so I wouldn't leap to assuming that anyone who mentions "conspiracy theories" about Axanar referring to the facts of them carpeting the offices or having long-term plans for the studio.
 
Something I've been thinking about for a few days... I wonder if those who donated could actually do anything, legally, that is. As has been noted, in the Kickstarter at least, THE risk was CBS pulling the plug. And, well, it looks like that just might happen.

So, on what basis could they sue (if that's the route donators took)? They were warned. Isn't it a bit like, Hey, would you like to donate towards my orange grove, I'll give you oranges . But, there's a risk, a bad winter could wipe me out. Lo and Behold, a bad winter.

Of course, the other thing... technically, Peters had no right to make a Star Trek film, he had no legal way of doing so. Wouldn't that be an argument against getting any money back? Isn't it sort of an illegal contract? He's promising to make something he has no right to make.

This Kickstarter isn't like others that haven't delivered. Others that I have read about (like video games), the owners actually owned the IP... they just didn't deliver.
 
I've enjoyed discussing the lawsuit and yes I've made fun of AP and his Axanards repeatedly. Some of the witty stuff people come up with here is sublimely hilarious but as a matter of personal decency there are some lines I don't wish to cross. Rooting through AP's curbside garbage can metaphorically speaking looking for dirt on him to spread throughout the internet invading his private life is one of those lines. CBS/Paramount and Loeb & Loeb have the matter well in hand.

My meek meager 2¢.
 
By "conspiracy theories" I meant the suggestions that none of the "perks" or "gifts" or "merchandise" was ever sent out to donors (obviously false), or that that there was never any intention of making a movie and this was all a huge graft from day one (and, I don't know, the photos of sets being built were 'shops). And I've just been following this here, I don't know what more outlandish accusations have been thrown around Facebook or Reddit or wherever (aside from "Maybe bought a vacation home with Kickstarter money," I suppose).

There are plenty of things being said about Alec Peters and the Axanar project that go well beyond any sensible reading of the facts, so I wouldn't leap to assuming that anyone who mentions "conspiracy theories" about Axanar referring to the facts of them carpeting the offices or having long-term plans for the studio.

that's fine, I certainly wouldn't be in a position to see all the theories people might on FB or elsewhere be putting forward, and I wouldn't dismiss your characterization of all that, I imagine some of it must be a dumpster.

But my impression is that aside from the outlier comments, there is a core of very concrete concerns about Axanar being set up as a for profit business and using money raised by reference to Trek IP to financially benefit that business' long term goals beyond the Axanar film by for example buying permanent studio fixtures and paying salaries to people who may be working at least part of the time on those long term goals. There are other perhaps lesser concerns seemingly in the same vein about setting up other money raising methods like unlicensed game pieces and models that also may be contribute to the financial benefit of the Axanar corporation or the Ares studio.

The legal case is that IP was used without permission and it created harm in part because of diverting Trek IP value into cash put into an enterprise which is not CBS/Paramount.

Around this core all sorts of noise swirls, but at least my impression is that this core is being suppressed from being openly discussed among the donors. Whatever the motivations for this, I just don't see how it serves the interest of Axanar donors and supporters to not face the core of the matter.
 
Rooting through AP's curbside garbage can metaphorically speaking looking for dirt on him to spread throughout the internet invading his private life is one of those lines.

I hate to go meta, or drag this side-conversation out much longer. I promise I'm almost through spilling words on it.

But, I must point out that your perception that posting an publicly available address is equivalent to rooting through garbage, or otherwise exposing something private is a very modern phenomenon. My humble 2¢ is that a few years ago this wouldn't have been an issue, but social media and "cyber-bullying" and online hate-mobs and internet trolls have now entered the public consciousness and increased our sensitivity to seeing other's personal information.
 
This Kickstarter isn't like others that haven't delivered. Others that I have read about (like video games), the owners actually owned the IP... they just didn't deliver.

If the Axanar Annual Report is to be believed (and, considering the outrageous things they admit to in that document, especially the executive salaries, I see no reason to believe it isn't accurate), isn't it very similar to those other Kickstarters? After all, the second Kickstarter suggested they could complete the feature for only a little more money than they ultimately raised in that fundraiser, and now all (or nearly all) of that money has been spent.

If it weren't for the Indiegogo campaign and direct donations, they'd be out of money and only have three minutes of the feature to show for it.
 
Wouldn't that video fall under terms of parody and review?

Also, did anybody happen to notice the image I posted some posts ago regarding Axanar?
 
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