CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[JoeZhang]

Joe's garage Trek, made on a $300 budget with a cellphone camera is also in breach. But CBS/Paramount (which may yet issue a C & D even to them) does not go after them because (a) they're small and are more likely to fly under the radar (even the most diligent of copyright holders will miss something - and tiny things are a lot easier to miss); (b ) with a shoestring like that, it's hard to claim it's anything but a fan film; and (c ) there is no pocket, except for stuff like mythological Joe's car, his house, and his retirement fund or boat or his grandmother's antique brooch if he's got either.

Hold on a minute - it's pretty clear that my film 'love instructor' best represents the vision of the great bird of the galaxy and the only hold-up is finding a three breasted woman to star in it. I rang CBS to clear it past them and after a bit of a silence they said I could do what I liked as long as I stopped ringing them.

 

[Red Shirt]

So, Tony Todd retweeted the Hitler vid.

He has truly taken the gloves off on Twitter, it's rather glorious.

Axanar finds out ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I30yJN-9RT0

 

[Jedman67]

That's also my understanding. The section Ion quoted would seem to be saying that Axanar Productions doesn't get copyright on Vulcans, or Klingons, or the Starship Enterprise, or the story of the formation of the Federation, but anything that wasn't already from a copyrighted work is automatically copyrighted, just like normal. So the Ares and other non-Enterprise ships, the various non-Garth characters, the specific events and dialogue, those are all still copyright Axanar Productions.

How can one copyright something that is just a rearranging of previously created IP?

Vulcans and Starfleet are CBS IP. However, my story of the Vulcan/Federation War that takes place on Stardate 3.14159 in the Holyshit Nebula is my IP* (*If anyone wants to make this into a movie I relinquish all rights to it). If TPTB want to make a movie about the Vulcan/Federation War based on my published novel, they'd have to prove that any "similarities" are coincidence or prove ownership of the story.

 

[BillJ]

That's also my understanding. The section Ion quoted would seem to be saying that Axanar Productions doesn't get copyright on Vulcans, or Klingons, or the Starship Enterprise, or the story of the formation of the Federation, but anything that wasn't already from a copyrighted work is automatically copyrighted, just like normal. So the Ares and other non-Enterprise ships, the various non-Garth characters, the specific events and dialogue, those are all still copyright Axanar Productions.

How can one copyright something that is just a rearranging of previously created IP?

Vulcans and Starfleet are CBS IP. However, my story of the Vulcan/Federation War that takes place on Stardate 3.14159 in the Holyshit Nebula is my IP* (*If anyone wants to make this into a movie I relinquish all rights to it). If TPTB want to make a movie about the Vulcan/Federation War based on my published novel, they'd have to prove that any "similarities" are coincidence or prove ownership of the story.

But they can stop you from using Vulcans and the Federation to begin with because both already belong to CBS. The Holy Shit nebula is yours though.

Specifically, I was talking about the Ares though. There is nothing original there. It is just a rearrangement of parts of things CBS owns the IP on.

 

[Tom]

This opinion article is spot on:

http://www.mobys.ws/01/03/axanar-and-profit-or-income-or-salary-or/

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I have never been able to watch delusion in action -until now



Someone get this man some help.

Well if he wants to make a go at a producing career, he needs to start acting like a professional. His behavior is highly unprofessional, publicly airing Tony Todd's alleged day rate, among other public rants.

Indeed. The echo chamber he has constructed is not helping his ego issues. Wake up Alec, none of those folks religiously supporting you on Facebook are going to help your career.

Peters says in his recent blog announcement that Axanar isn't a vanity project, but it is. It is his vanity and ego on the line here. It's clouding his judgement. He can't separate himself from the work. It's all personal. Any criticism is seen as an attack on him.

This is perhaps the hardest thing for me to take in all this mishegoss. I really respect David. Or have. I just have to engage blinders or something, because that's just tacky and wrong.

And again why I've grown cold on this project, as it seems to have been declared the True Trek for True Believers.

I missed that - Gerrold actually called Abrams "Jar Jar?"

Well, you can do a lot for people, but you can't give a guy class.

It's also false. I can't stand JJ Trek, bu Axanar being everything I want to see as a response? That's just insulting.

Exactly. For other fans of the original TREK, such as myself, the new films hit all the right action-adventure drama notes that were in the original series.

And Axanar isn't something I've been craving. This production needs to stop talking as if it represents ALL TREK FANDOM.

I tuned Gerrold out a few years ago when he started declaring that he was one of a few people that could really write STAR TREK. Well, that and how tacky he could be in his public rants.

 

[David cgc]

Specifically, I was talking about the Ares though. There is nothing original there. It is just a rearrangement of parts of things CBS owns the IP on.

We're getting into a tricky area. I don't think you can copyright a design (for instance, the designs of the TMP Enterprise and other ships for the '80s were protected by patents for toys for precisely that reason), but I'm not sure exactly how that works and what the line is. Even though the Ares uses detailing and design elements common to Star Trek, I don't know how much it would take for CBS to be able to take a Star Trek styled ship that, nevertheless, is not an established design and call ownership on it. How far would that go? Would any spaceship design that uses a flat horizontal disc with some sort of cylindrical protrusions coming off of it be fair game for CBS to call an infringement? I don't know. I don't think so.

 

[BillJ]

Specifically, I was talking about the Ares though. There is nothing original there. It is just a rearrangement of parts of things CBS owns the IP on.

We're getting into a tricky area. I don't think you can copyright a design (for instance, the designs of the TMP Enterprise and other ships for the '80s were protected by patents for toys for precisely that reason), but I'm not sure exactly how that works and what the line is. Even though the Ares uses detailing and design elements common to Star Trek, I don't know how much it would take for CBS to be able to take a Star Trek styled ship that, nevertheless, is not an established design and call ownership on it. How far would that go? Would any spaceship design that uses a flat horizontal disc with some sort of cylindrical protrusions coming off of it be fair game for CBS to call an infringement? I don't know. I don't think so.

The details themselves are actually very reminiscent of the TOS design. The general shape is very similar to the USS Titan from the novels and I'm pretty sure that is trademarked.

 

[lurok]

Someone feel absolutely free to correct me (as I can't be bothered to trawl the Axanar archive), but age gap notwithstanding, I was under the distinct impression that Peters was planning to reprise his Garth in Axanar feature. He seemed to make a big deal of acting lessons with Hatch and others in preparation.

To suddenly say 'oh, we're casting younger actor' - which I've not seen previously mentioned - just feels like post-lawsuit bullshit.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

This opinion article is spot on:

http://www.mobys.ws/01/03/axanar-and-profit-or-income-or-salary-or/

Yup, and ultimately when you get through this line of questions with a supporter, (As I have on FB with someone who has even volunteered at Ares) the response has been, I don't care, I just want to see the movie made....

 

[KennyB]

Well if he wants to make a go at a producing career, he needs to start acting like a professional. His behavior is highly unprofessional, publicly airing Tony Todd's alleged day rate, among other public rants.

Perfecto---no one likes a 55 year old man child on the payroll.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Someone feel absolutely free to correct me (as I can't be bothered to trawl the Axanar archive), but age gap notwithstanding, I was under the distinct impression that Peters was planning to reprise his Garth in Axanar feature. He seemed to make a big deal of acting lessons with Hatch and others in preparation.

To suddenly say 'oh, we're casting younger actor' - which I've not seen previously mentioned - just feels like post-lawsuit bullshit.

I think with Tony Todd all but calling him an $#!+ actor on the twitterverse... that may have given him pause to change his mind...

 

[jespah]

/invests in Jason's Space Odyssey/

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Specifically, I was talking about the Ares though. There is nothing original there. It is just a rearrangement of parts of things CBS owns the IP on.

We're getting into a tricky area. I don't think you can copyright a design (for instance, the designs of the TMP Enterprise and other ships for the '80s were protected by patents for toys for precisely that reason), but I'm not sure exactly how that works and what the line is. Even though the Ares uses detailing and design elements common to Star Trek, I don't know how much it would take for CBS to be able to take a Star Trek styled ship that, nevertheless, is not an established design and call ownership on it. How far would that go? Would any spaceship design that uses a flat horizontal disc with some sort of cylindrical protrusions coming off of it be fair game for CBS to call an infringement? I don't know. I don't think so.

The details themselves are actually very reminiscent of the TOS design. The general shape is very similar to the USS Titan from the novels and I'm pretty sure that is trademarked.

The Ares is essentially the Centar Kitbash from DS9, with TOS parts... Peters all but said that himself....

 

[Ion]

Someone feel absolutely free to correct me (as I can't be bothered to trawl the Axanar archive), but age gap notwithstanding, I was under the distinct impression that Peters was planning to reprise his Garth in Axanar feature. He seemed to make a big deal of acting lessons with Hatch and others in preparation.

To suddenly say 'oh, we're casting younger actor' - which I've not seen previously mentioned - just feels like post-lawsuit bullshit.

I think with Tony Todd all but calling him an $#!+ actor on the twitterverse... that may have given him pause to change his mind...

I was struck by how similar it was to the reasoning behind some comments on some thread or another here (can't remember if it was old Axanar thread stuff or earlier in this thread; too much reading lately).

 

[BillJ]

The Ares is essentially the Centar Kitbash from DS9, with TOS parts... Peters all but said that himself....

Fair enough. Though it reminds me more of the Titan.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

The Ares is essentially the Centar Kitbash from DS9, with TOS parts... Peters all but said that himself....

Fair enough. Though it reminds me more of the Titan.

Same person designed both the Ares and the Titan...

 

[David cgc]

The details themselves are actually very reminiscent of the TOS design. The general shape is very similar to the USS Titan from the novels and I'm pretty sure that is trademarked.

That's all true, but I feel like it wouldn't be enough. It'd be like saying that Captain Travis from Axanar wasn't an original character, because he was a Starfleet Captain with traits similar to many official Star Trek characters. And you may say, yes, that's fine as an example of infringement, since the fact that Travis is intended to be in the Star Trek setting means he may as well have been a CBS-owned character that's being used and not a new one original to Axanar, because Axanar, by trying to have the look and feel of Star Trek, cannot have any part of it considered "original."

However, from that argument, it's a hop, skip, and a jump to arguing that Robert Ludlum violated copyright because Jason Bourne is basically James Bond with a different accent and a head injury. Asserting that mere similarity is enough to create an infringement is a very slippery slope.

 

[Captain Atkin]

Someone feel absolutely free to correct me (as I can't be bothered to trawl the Axanar archive), but age gap notwithstanding, I was under the distinct impression that Peters was planning to reprise his Garth in Axanar feature. He seemed to make a big deal of acting lessons with Hatch and others in preparation.

To suddenly say 'oh, we're casting younger actor' - which I've not seen previously mentioned - just feels like post-lawsuit bullshit.

I heard they were casting a younger Garth back in November when I was visiting the New Voyages set. So this isn't really new news to me. I had always assumed that Alec was going to play Garth in the film, but my understanding is that they wanted to go with a younger actor for the battle, with Alec playing "old man" Garth in the vignettes set years after the battle.

 

[Jedman67]

The details themselves are actually very reminiscent of the TOS design. The general shape is very similar to the USS Titan from the novels and I'm pretty sure that is trademarked.

That's all true, but I feel like it wouldn't be enough. It'd be like saying that Captain Travis from Axanar wasn't an original character, because he was a Starfleet Captain with traits similar to many official Star Trek characters. And you may say, yes, that's fine as an example of infringement, since the fact that Travis is intended to be in the Star Trek setting means he may as well have been a CBS-owned character that's being used and not a new one original to Axanar, because Axanar, by trying to have the look and feel of Star Trek, cannot have any part of it considered "original."

However, from that argument, it's a hop, skip, and a jump to arguing that Robert Ludlum violated copyright because Jason Bourne is basically James Bond with a different accent and a head injury. Asserting that mere similarity is enough to create an infringement is a very slippery slope.

It's a little different. Here CBS can claim that Ares is a clear derivative of existing licensed ship designs. If you take Ares out of any star trek context it's immediately recognizable as a Star Trek ship.