CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[BillJ]

However, from that argument, it's a hop, skip, and a jump to arguing that Robert Ludlum violated copyright because Jason Bourne is basically James Bond with a different accent and a head injury. Asserting that mere similarity is enough to create an infringement is a very slippery slope.

We're talking about two different things here I think. I can't take the Enterprise, shave the name and NCC-1701 off of it and lower the nacelles and claim it is a design of my own.

That's taking things that are obviously identifiable as Star Trek.

Is Captain Travis worth anything if he isn't attached to CBS' IP?

 

[Red Shirt]

Specifically, I was talking about the Ares though. There is nothing original there. It is just a rearrangement of parts of things CBS owns the IP on.

We're getting into a tricky area. I don't think you can copyright a design (for instance, the designs of the TMP Enterprise and other ships for the '80s were protected by patents for toys for precisely that reason), but I'm not sure exactly how that works and what the line is. Even though the Ares uses detailing and design elements common to Star Trek, I don't know how much it would take for CBS to be able to take a Star Trek styled ship that, nevertheless, is not an established design and call ownership on it. How far would that go? Would any spaceship design that uses a flat horizontal disc with some sort of cylindrical protrusions coming off of it be fair game for CBS to call an infringement? I don't know. I don't think so.

Here's a quote of the filed lawsuit by Loeb & Loeb representing Paramount: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2660454-Startreklawsuit.html Page 4 of 19 The Doe Defendants include, among others, those persons who aided in the writing of the scripts for the Axanar Works or producing or directing the films, and those persons who designed or caused to be designed the infringing sets, costumes, props and other elements in the Axanar Works that infringed copyrighted Star Trek elements.

 

[lurok]

I heard they were casting a younger Garth back in November when I was visiting the New Voyages set. So this isn't really new news to me.

Precisely. You were 'on set' and privileged to inside information. But I don't think this was public knowledge via the Axanar website (which is the primary public forum)

Assumption is different entirely...

 

[Captain Atkin]

I heard they were casting a younger Garth back in November when I was visiting the New Voyages set. So this isn't really new news to me.

Precisely. You were 'on set' and privileged to inside information. But I don't think this was public knowledge via the Axanar website (which is the primary public forum)

I am pretty sure that everyone on set knew this. I don't know if it was ever discussed online officially by anyone working on the film prior to their recent announcement, but I do know that they were planning on going that route months ago.

 

[SurvivorJoe]

Yesterday I randomly selected an episode of DS9 to put on while I did some chores around my apartment, and I ended up picking "For The Uniform". With this Axanar situation on the back of my mind, I caught myself stopping and really listening to some of the dialogue between Sisko and Eddington.

I don't know this Peters guy, but after catching up on this thread, I really think he sees himself in the role of Eddington - Fighting the good fight for the Maquis (Axanar) against the big bad Federation/Cardassians (CBS/Paramount). And when he finally gets taken down for good, he'll see himself as a martyr to the cause.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

I heard they were casting a younger Garth back in November when I was visiting the New Voyages set. So this isn't really new news to me.

Precisely. You were 'on set' and privileged to inside information. But I don't think this was public knowledge via the Axanar website (which is the primary public forum)

I am pretty sure that everyone on set knew this. I don't know if it was ever discussed online officially by anyone working on the film prior to their recent announcement, but I do know that they were planning on going that route months ago.

Maybe it was decided on set there, after one of those 25 take shots with Peters rumors that have been swirling around

 

[KennyB]

I heard they were casting a younger Garth back in November when I was visiting the New Voyages set. So this isn't really new news to me.

Precisely. You were 'on set' and privileged to inside information. But I don't think this was public knowledge via the Axanar website (which is the primary public forum)

Assumption is different entirely...

No need to tell the peasants----they just pay for it all......MUHAHAHAHA!

 

[seigezunt]

I heard they were casting a younger Garth back in November when I was visiting the New Voyages set. So this isn't really new news to me.

Precisely. You were 'on set' and privileged to inside information. But I don't think this was public knowledge via the Axanar website (which is the primary public forum)

I am pretty sure that everyone on set knew this. I don't know if it was ever discussed online officially by anyone working on the film prior to their recent announcement, but I do know that they were planning on going that route months ago.

Still, he gets a point in my book for not holding onto that element of it being a vanity production.

 

[Campe]

So, I was just perusing the comments on an article about this on Dark Horizons, our old Facebook friend Fred Archer (aka The Fox) is suggesting that the Axanar Donors Group is giving some "inside information" that Bad Robot initiated the lawsuit and that CBS would be licensing fan films. To which I of course give the biggest "BULLSHIT!" response ever (in my head).

 

[Turbo]

So, I was just perusing the comments on an article about this on Dark Horizons, our old Facebook friend Fred Archer (aka The Fox) is suggesting that the Axanar Donors Group is giving some "inside information" that Bad Robot initiated the lawsuit and that CBS would be licensing fan films. To which I of course give the biggest "BULLSHIT!" response ever (in my head).

I...but...I...but...oh, that's too funny.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

So, I was just perusing the comments on an article about this on Dark Horizons, our old Facebook friend Fred Archer (aka The Fox) is suggesting that the Axanar Donors Group is giving some "inside information" that Bad Robot initiated the lawsuit and that CBS would be licensing fan films. To which I of course give the biggest "BULLSHIT!" response ever (in my head).

Isn't Fred Archer also BobTrekfan?

 

[Campe]

So, I was just perusing the comments on an article about this on Dark Horizons, our old Facebook friend Fred Archer (aka The Fox) is suggesting that the Axanar Donors Group is giving some "inside information" that Bad Robot initiated the lawsuit and that CBS would be licensing fan films. To which I of course give the biggest "BULLSHIT!" response ever (in my head).

Isn't Fred Archer also BobTrekfan?

I think I recall hearing that once upon a time.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

So, I was just perusing the comments on an article about this on Dark Horizons, our old Facebook friend Fred Archer (aka The Fox) is suggesting that the Axanar Donors Group is giving some "inside information" that Bad Robot initiated the lawsuit and that CBS would be licensing fan films. To which I of course give the biggest "BULLSHIT!" response ever (in my head).

Isn't Fred Archer also BobTrekfan?

I think I recall hearing that once upon a time.

I know that BobTrekfan, Fred Archer (if he isn't BobTrekfan), Para Mobius/Doug Fitz, Leslie E Owen, are all part of the Talifan brigade on Facebook. Anything and everything that can make the BR movies look bad, they pump it up. (If I have to hear about Symbol scanners ONE MORE TIME from Doug).

This is also the same people who said, CBS would be launching a Miniseries to close out enterprise, have a Major series launch this year, and a 50th anniversary retrospective... Of course all of this was SUPPOSED to be announced last January...

I don't buy their "Connections" one single bit. And even Fred goes on to say there he has no connections with CBS, or Paramount, so he is just spouting what Aznar want stop believe.

 

[Campe]

Isn't Fred Archer also BobTrekfan?

I think I recall hearing that once upon a time.

I know that BobTrekfan, Fred Archer (if he isn't BobTrekfan), Para Mobius/Doug Fitz, Leslie E Owen, are all part of the Talifan brigade on Facebook. Anything and everything that can make the BR movies look bad, they pump it up. (If I have to hear about Symbol scanners ONE MORE TIME from Doug).

This is also the same people who said, CBS would be launching a Miniseries to close out enterprise, have a Major series launch this year, and a 50th anniversary retrospective... Of course all of this was SUPPOSED to be announced last January...

I don't buy their "Connections" one single bit. And even Fred goes on to say there he has no connections with CBS, or Paramount, so he is just spouting what Aznar want stop believe.

I am very well acquainted with the story. I actually got a little obsessed with them last year. Every once in awhile I catch wind of their "inside connections" through some *ahem* alternative methods, but I haven't seen too much of Leslie in awhile. Fred and Doug don't seem to have changed one bit since I was in the middle of it it. Harvey Kitzman can be an ass but we actually found some common ground a little while back.

And yes, I really got annoyed with the price scanners and the Dyson hand dryer stuff from Doug. I mean, the Borg used 5 1/4" floppy drives back in the day. You can't build everything from scratch.

But yeah, I think a lot of this "info" does come from Team Axanar. (I mean, Jar Jar Abrams had to come from somewhere.)

 

[jespah]

Gah I can't read anymore....

* I mean about the Bad Robot conspiracy theorists. Christ on a cracker, it's like the folks who boil their own urine to keep from getting fluoride from the gummint.

 

[The Transformed Man]

Wait... Axanar coffee??? I've got to imagine even the name Axanar is owned by CBS/Paramount.

Seriously, who thoughtn that was a great idea? I can just see the conversation at the "studio" now:

"Merchandising, merchandising, where the real money from the movie is made. Axanar-the T-shirt, Axanar-the Coloring Book, Axanar-the Lunch box, Axanar-the Breakfast Cereal, Axanar-the Flame Thrower."

 

[Woulfe]

Wait... Axanar coffee??? I've got to imagine even the name Axanar is owned by CBS/Paramount.

Seriously, who thoughtn that was a great idea? I can just see the conversation at the "studio" now:

"Merchandising, merchandising, where the real money from the movie is made. Axanar-the T-shirt, Axanar-the Coloring Book, Axanar-the Lunch box, Axanar-the Breakfast Cereal, Axanar-the Flame Thrower."

"Kids love that, and Axanar the doll, me" (pulls string)

Axanar Doll "May the lawsuit be with you"

"Adorable, isn't it ?"

 

[Campe]

Gah I can't read anymore....

* I mean about the Bad Robot conspiracy theorists. Christ on a cracker, it's like the folks who boil their own urine to keep from getting fluoride from the gummint.

I'm pretty sure they're one in the same. Anyway, BACK TO AXANAR!

 

[Franklin]

Specifically, I was talking about the Ares though. There is nothing original there. It is just a rearrangement of parts of things CBS owns the IP on.

We're getting into a tricky area. I don't think you can copyright a design (for instance, the designs of the TMP Enterprise and other ships for the '80s were protected by patents for toys for precisely that reason), but I'm not sure exactly how that works and what the line is. Even though the Ares uses detailing and design elements common to Star Trek, I don't know how much it would take for CBS to be able to take a Star Trek styled ship that, nevertheless, is not an established design and call ownership on it. How far would that go? Would any spaceship design that uses a flat horizontal disc with some sort of cylindrical protrusions coming off of it be fair game for CBS to call an infringement? I don't know. I don't think so.

Here's a quote of the filed lawsuit by Loeb & Loeb representing Paramount: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2660454-Startreklawsuit.html Page 4 of 19 The Doe Defendants include, among others, those persons who aided in the writing of the scripts for the Axanar Works or producing or directing the films, and those persons who designed or caused to be designed the infringing sets, costumes, props and other elements in the Axanar Works that infringed copyrighted Star Trek elements.

The papers for the lawsuit mention that Captain April and Sarek were in the script. April was to be Garth's mentor, and Sarek was an aide to Soval.

The papers also quote Peters from the Axanar site, saying he concedes on his website that Axanar Works is not licensed by CBS or Paramount.

On the Axanar webstie, under FAQ, there's the question: "Is Axanar licensed by CBS/Paramount?"
The answer is: "No. Axanar is an independent project that uses the intellectual property of CBS under the provision that Axanar is totally non-commercial. That means we can never charge for anything featuring their marks or intellectual property and we will never sell the movie, DVD/Blu-ray copies, T-shirts, or anything which uses CBS owned marks or intellectual property."

How freaking stupid. Utterly and completely stupid. Devoid of intelligence. It defies belief someone can think like that and manage to make it to 55 years old. Someone like this is usually the type of person who needs instructions on how to ride an escalator.

Sorry if this particular topic was brought up, before. It's getting hard to remember or keep up with what's being posted.

 

[David cgc]

We're talking about two different things here I think. I can't take the Enterprise, shave the name and NCC-1701 off of it and lower the nacelles and claim it is a design of my own.

I don't know, I've seen a lot of Star Trek-style ships in generic sci-fi art. The disc-and-tubes profile is distinctive, but I don't think it's distinctive enough for CBS to automatically own every variation on it anyone might come up with.

Is Captain Travis worth anything if he isn't attached to CBS' IP?

As we discussed earlier, the infringement exception in copyright is specific to the infringing elements. The character Sam Travis did not exist in a released work prior to "Prelude to Axanar." It doesn't matter if no one would care about the adventures of crusty old Captain Travis, the hero the Battle of Sigma III in Galaxy Quadrant X, he's still a new character. Therefore, Alec Peters/Axanar Productions owns the copyright on him, and CBS cannot use the character without a license. Just like they couldn't sell Ares model kits, or have Pocket novelize the script, or anything, unless Peters/Axanar agreed to it, because that would be copyright infringement.