CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[mos6507]

Funny you mention Equinox. Their Vimeo trailer is dead, their website is dead, and the Facebook page is all but dead. They were never a real project to begin with.

I know this might be going off on a tangent, but Equinox was really when fan-films jumped the shark, not Axanar. I have no doubt that everyone behind Axanar (including Alec) genuinely thought there was a story worth telling here. The scope of the project just expanded beyond what any fan-film should ever attempt. Equinox, on the other hand, seemed to start with the idea that if you just had two fairly well known Trek veterans and wrote some implausible time-travel story to bring them together you could exploit their name-recognition to crowdfund a show. This despite the fact that (sorry to say it) Gary Lockwood doesn't even look recognizable anymore due to his advanced age. It was marketing first, storytelling second, and I think potential donors realized this, and turned their thumbs down on it.

It's probably not a popular opinion to say this, but I think fan-films were becoming sort of the next thing aging actors could do to make a living (or at least provide something interesting to do with their idle time) beyond the convention circuit. Remember that Richard Hatch was at this sort of thing all the way back when he tried to revive classic Battlestar Galacitica with his own fan-film. That project was, in some ways, Renegades before there was Renegades.

And go much farther back and Bill Mumy tried to revive Lost in Space and got smacked down by Irwin Allen in a soul-crushing phone-call.

So there's a precedent here for non-copyright owners trying to kind of usurp copyright. No matter what the intent, if they take it to far, they always hit a glass ceiling.

 

[oswriter]

I imagine Soval is one of the many reasons why Axanar is getting singled out.

Yes - any reuse is a violation, but those other productions are raising a million bucks, selling coffee, and then being general dickholes about getting caught.

Sorta like how when you repost a clip of your favorite show on YouTube. It's a violation, but just doing it once or twice isn't going to get the CBS police called on you.

Make a business by reposting shows on YouTube without consent? Nope nope nope.

Well the key issue is whether the reuse is "fair use." Peters and Axanar Productions will no doubt raise this as a defense. And fair use can be a tricky thing to precisely define. Here's the definitive Supreme Court statement on the subject:

(The fair use inquiry) focuses on whether the new work merely supersedes the objects of the original creation, or whether and to what extent it is “transformative,” altering the original with new expression, meaning, or message. The more transformative the new work, the less will be the significance of other factors, like commercialism, that may weigh against a finding of fair use.

So if I republish an entire movie on YouTube, that is not transformative. But if I take some clips from the same movie and use it to make a funny video, that might be transformative enough to satisfy fair use. Axanar could plausibly argue they have taken relatively minor characters from Star Trek--Soval, Robau, etc.--and "transformed" them through an original story that offers a unique "meaning or message."

But the problem is that transformation is just one element of a fair use claim. The judge must also consider those "other factors" alluded to by the Supreme Court, including the impact on the copyright holder's commercial interests. And this is where CBS and Paramount will mount their legal attack. As the studios said in their complaint, the fact that Axanar is presenting itself as a "professional" production makes them a direct competitor, not a fan film.

 

[Squiggy]

Yup. At some point Axanar crossed the imaginary line from nuisance to insignificant threat and they were using CBS's own IP against them.

 

[oswriter]

A copyright owner need not prosecute every violation.

I'm not saying they do, but some of what's going on here is lynch-mob mentality of playing judge, jury, and executioner. If people want to do that, focus on what makes the Axanar case unique, otherwise you're just building an argument for CBS to crush Axanar and then proceed to take down Renegades, Continues, and NV/PII, all for the sake of enforcing copyright law in its strictest possible interpretation. I can't imagine people here really want that to happen.

Well, I mentioned the Soval issue because CBS and Paramount specifically raised it in their complaint. Whether that is a prelude to CBS acting against other fan films that use existing characters, I cannot say. But given we've heard no reports of CBS moving against other productions, as well as the fact Peters is the only individual defendant named in the complaint, suggests to me this is largely a campaign directed against him and Axanar.

 

[Amaris]

Not to speculate, and I'm just speculating here, I would bet that CBS approached Alec a number of times telling him to tone it down/knock it off/cool it on the whole Axanar empire he was trying to build, and Alec snubbed them. He may have even ignored a C&D in the process.

I say this because back in August when Alec was saying "everything's cool babe," CBS was saying "we're not cool. In fact, we're the opposite of cool right now." That had to play into it.

 

[oswriter]

Funny you mention Equinox. Their Vimeo trailer is dead, their website is dead, and the Facebook page is all but dead. They were never a real project to begin with.

I know this might be going off on a tangent, but Equinox was really when fan-films jumped the shark, not Axanar. I have no doubt that everyone behind Axanar (including Alec) genuinely thought there was a story worth telling here. The scope of the project just expanded beyond what any fan-film should ever attempt. Equinox, on the other hand, seemed to start with the idea that if you just had two fairly well known Trek veterans and wrote some implausible time-travel story to bring them together you could exploit their name-recognition to crowdfund a show. This despite the fact that (sorry to say it) Gary Lockwood doesn't even look recognizable anymore due to his advanced age. It was marketing first, storytelling second, and I think potential donors realized this, and turned their thumbs down on it.

It's probably not a popular opinion to say this, but I think fan-films were becoming sort of the next thing aging actors could do to make a living (or at least provide something interesting to do with their idle time) beyond the convention circuit. Remember that Richard Hatch was at this sort of thing all the way back when he tried to revive classic Battlestar Galacitica with his own fan-film. That project was, in some ways, Renegades before there was Renegades.

And go much farther back and Bill Mumy tried to revive Lost in Space and got smacked down by Irwin Allen in a soul-crushing phone-call.

So there's a precedent here for non-copyright owners trying to kind of usurp copyright. No matter what the intent, if they take it to far, they always hit a glass ceiling.

Something else to consider here: CBS and Paramount may actually be trying to help fan films by shutting down someone they perceive to be a con artist. Just to be clear, I am not saying Alec Peters is a con artist. What I'm suggesting is that CBS may be looking at Axanar as a runaway freight train that threatens to not only squander donor money but damage the overall Star Trek brand.

Forget about whether you think Axanar is closer to "real trek" than the recent Paramount films. There's no guarantee Peters can actually deliver on what he's promised. Tony Todd's cryptic comments alone suggest there may be serious production problems with Axanar which, let's not forget, is supposed to be the debut film from a new, untried independent studio.

If I'm looking at this from CBS' perspective, the last thing I want is a (relatively) high profile fan film to crash and burn during an anniversary year when I'm trying to launch a new series. Getting an injunction to shut down Axanar now may enrage a few hundred folks on Facebook, but a year from now nobody will remember or care. But if Axanar sputters through a year of production and still has nothing to show for its efforts, than you potentially have a major scandal on your hands.

 

[mos6507]

Well, I mentioned the Soval issue because CBS and Paramount specifically raised it in their complaint.

Most Trek fans don't even know who Soval is, because only a small portion of Trek fans are Enterprise fans. It came about when franchise fatigue was at its worst.

All Trek fans know who Kirk, Spock, and McCoy are, though, and so even though other actors are playing those roles, Continues and NV/PII are hitting closer to home.

Axanar is exploring a rather obscure part of Trek canon. Most don't rate Whom Gods Destroy as a very good episode. It was kind of mid-grade 3rd season fare bordering on camp due to Steve Ihnat and Shatner overacting. I (and probably others) hold a soft spot for it due to Yvonne Craig. But if Axanar wanted to really usurp the Trek brand it could have chosen a more mainstream setting.

The bulletpoints in the lawsuit aren't what's significant. It's the trigger-point that caused CBS/Paramount to sue, which is probably going over 1M in crowdfunding, Ares Studio, and the shameless merch. Once they decided to sue, they just retroactively built the case up with elements that are pretty common to all fan-films. In that respect, Alec has a point that what most of what he's doing is no different from other fan-films. But it's that last point of difference that matters the most. The rest of it is just ammo that CBS/Paramount's is just loading up to punish him.

So I don't (personally) think that CBS/Paramount cares that Continues and PII/NV uses Kirk/Spock/McCoy or that fan-films have brought actors back to reprise their roles, because the total package of how those shows present themselves don't feel like enough of a threat. Yes, it's a double-standard, but that's how I think they want to play it.

The wildcard here is Renegades. If I were a betting man, I'd say they are on thin ice.

 

[oswriter]

Well, I mentioned the Soval issue because CBS and Paramount specifically raised it in their complaint.

Most Trek fans don't even know who Soval is, because only a small portion of Trek fans are Enterprise fans. It came about when franchise fatigue was at its worst.

All Trek fans know who Kirk, Spock, and McCoy are, though, and so even though other actors are playing those roles, Continues and NV/PII are hitting closer to home.

Axanar is exploring a rather obscure part of Trek canon. Most don't rate Whom Gods Destroy as a very good episode. It was kind of mid-grade 3rd season fare bordering on camp due to Steve Ihnat and Shatner overacting. I (and probably others) hold a soft spot for it due to Yvonne Craig. But if Axanar wanted to really usurp the Trek brand it could have chosen a more mainstream setting.

The bulletpoints in the lawsuit aren't what's significant. It's the trigger-point that caused CBS/Paramount to sue, which is probably going over 1M in crowdfunding, Ares Studio, and the shameless merch. Once they decided to sue, they just retroactively built the case up with elements that are pretty common to all fan-films. In that respect, Alec has a point that what most of what he's doing is no different from other fan-films. But it's that last point of difference that matters the most. The rest of it is just ammo that CBS/Paramount's is just loading up to punish him.

So I don't (personally) think that CBS/Paramount cares that Continues and PII/NV uses Kirk/Spock/McCoy or that fan-films have brought actors back to reprise their roles, because the total package of how those shows present themselves don't feel like enough of a threat. Yes, it's a double-standard, but that's how I think they want to play it.

The wildcard here is Renegades. If I were a betting man, I'd say they are on thin ice.

Your points are all well taken.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Not to speculate, and I'm just speculating here, I would bet that CBS approached Alec a number of times telling him to tone it down/knock it off/cool it on the whole Axanar empire he was trying to build, and Alec snubbed them. He may have even ignored a C&D in the process.

I say this because back in August when Alec was saying "everything's cool babe," CBS was saying "we're not cool. In fact, we're the opposite of cool right now." That had to play into it.

This is why I would like to see this go to trial... Ignoring warnings and C&D's would be made public, and hopefully break some people out of their Stockholm syndrome,,.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Funny you mention Equinox. Their Vimeo trailer is dead, their website is dead, and the Facebook page is all but dead. They were never a real project to begin with.

I know this might be going off on a tangent, but Equinox was really when fan-films jumped the shark, not Axanar. I have no doubt that everyone behind Axanar (including Alec) genuinely thought there was a story worth telling here. The scope of the project just expanded beyond what any fan-film should ever attempt. Equinox, on the other hand, seemed to start with the idea that if you just had two fairly well known Trek veterans and wrote some implausible time-travel story to bring them together you could exploit their name-recognition to crowdfund a show. This despite the fact that (sorry to say it) Gary Lockwood doesn't even look recognizable anymore due to his advanced age. It was marketing first, storytelling second, and I think potential donors realized this, and turned their thumbs down on it.

It's probably not a popular opinion to say this, but I think fan-films were becoming sort of the next thing aging actors could do to make a living (or at least provide something interesting to do with their idle time) beyond the convention circuit. Remember that Richard Hatch was at this sort of thing all the way back when he tried to revive classic Battlestar Galacitica with his own fan-film. That project was, in some ways, Renegades before there was Renegades.

And go much farther back and Bill Mumy tried to revive Lost in Space and got smacked down by Irwin Allen in a soul-crushing phone-call.

So there's a precedent here for non-copyright owners trying to kind of usurp copyright. No matter what the intent, if they take it to far, they always hit a glass ceiling.

Something else to consider here: CBS and Paramount may actually be trying to help fan films by shutting down someone they perceive to be a con artist. Just to be clear, I am not saying Alec Peters is a con artist. What I'm suggesting is that CBS may be looking at Axanar as a runaway freight train that threatens to not only squander donor money but damage the overall Star Trek brand.

Forget about whether you think Axanar is closer to "real trek" than the recent Paramount films. There's no guarantee Peters can actually deliver on what he's promised. Tony Todd's cryptic comments alone suggest there may be serious production problems with Axanar which, let's not forget, is supposed to be the debut film from a new, untried independent studio.

If I'm looking at this from CBS' perspective, the last thing I want is a (relatively) high profile fan film to crash and burn during an anniversary year when I'm trying to launch a new series. Getting an injunction to shut down Axanar now may enrage a few hundred folks on Facebook, but a year from now nobody will remember or care. But if Axanar sputters through a year of production and still has nothing to show for its efforts, than you potentially have a major scandal on your hands.

When the Ask for Axanar went from the 800k at the end of the first Kickstarter, to 2 million (combined Kickstarter raised and indiggogo ask) all I could think about, as a donor was, well that's 3 frappecrappeccinos I wasted... I can't imagine what people who sunk hundreds orthousands of dollars the first time around must have said to themselves to convince them to chase what I thought was good money after bad... And what that might do to the Star Trek brand if the film was never made..

 

[yenny]

Yes, and all of these are cases of copyright infringement. The fact that CBS has chosen not to pursue claims against other fan films may be hypocritical, but it is within their legal rights. A copyright owner need not prosecute every violation.

Not exactly, copyright infringement only accord if say actor/actress is getting pay to play a character by a studio that was created by another studio, that as well goes for the actor/actress that had played say characters themself.

But that's what happened with Renegades....

Renegades was a pitch to CBS, who in turned give the green light for filming to begin, but change their mind after the pilot was shown to them. But that does not goes for the second episode they're working on. They have to follow the rules that anyone that want to make a fan film has to follow.

 

[Amaris]

Not exactly, copyright infringement only accord if say actor/actress is getting pay to play a character by a studio that was created by another studio, that as well goes for the actor/actress that had played say characters themself.

But that's what happened with Renegades....

Renegades was a pitch to CBS, who in turned give the green light for filming to begin, but change their mind after the pilot was shown to them. But that does not goes for the second episode they're working on. They have to follow the rules that anyone that want to make a fan film has to follow.

Eh, not quite. Renegades wasn't endorsed or greenlit by CBS at all. What Renegades did was make a fan film with the full intent to pitch it to the studio as a pilot for a series. There was no official arrangement of any kind between Renegades and CBS, just that there were people at CBS, though I don't think anyone knows specifically who it was making the contact, willing to listen to what they did bring to the table.

When they were turned down, Renegades decided to go ahead and just make their own fan series. When that didn't work out as they'd hoped, they began making one more installment of their series to bring it to completion, which I believe they're working on now.

 

[Harvey]

Renegades was a pitch to CBS, who in turned give the green light for filming to begin, but change their mind after the pilot was shown to them.

No.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

Just playing catchup but uh

I can't view this (I have a Windows phone) - can others?
https://www.periscope.tv/w/aVYoYDI3...CrrXIfBO4DQovu_OMnjWtlqQoGTY2h1prwucTe4xF6bk=

So many namedrops!

The complaint indicates that they don't know who all of them are, but it'll be really easy for them to find out. In fact, it's all over the interwebs.

See above. Can you say "screwed"?

(Although I must admit, what I hated about his films was the weird choice of intercutting the interviews with oftentimes completely unrelated scenes from the episodes).

Sadly that's pretty standard in special features... Oh, the interview subject mentioned a thing? Let's find a scene that might reference that same thing if you squinted and crammed cottonballs in your ears...

 

[Karzak]

CBS is free to enforce their copyright however they wish. If they want to shut everyone down, they easily could. If they just want to shut Axanar down, they will.

They don't have to be fair at all about protecting their copyright.

Agreed. It's their goddamn sandbox, they'll do what they want with it and no pissant whiny Trek fans with delusions of any kind of relevance toward filmmaking, Star Trek, or entertainment law are really going to stand much of a chance of changing that fact of life.

 

[Woulfe]

Dang, take a break to clear my head and the thread is nearly 100 pages long.

I think it's safe to say Axanar isn't going to happen, you just can't put a positive spin on any of this no matter how you slice it.

AP just got too big for his own good, went to his head, and well, here we are

 

[Karzak]

AP just got too big for his own good, went to his head, and well, here we are

Just as several of us have been predicting for years.

 

[Woulfe]

AP just got too big for his own good, went to his head, and well, here we are

Just as several of us have been predicting for years.

I had to look at the past posts in the closed thread to get up to speed on a lot of this, all I know is back when they were doing multiple Kickstaters / Indegogos I felt something wasn't right.

I'm glad I didn't toss any money at them.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

What about things like The movie Star Wreck?

Did they get permission to use a lot of Trek stuff, and I think Babylon 5?

Parody is permitted under current copyright law.

See I don't get that. Parody is OK and it's OK to use Ship designs and costumes but if you make something semi serious you are screwed to the wall.

Having said that I do agree. If you are told to stop you should stop or face the consequences.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Is that Marie Antoinette in the corner back there?

And who is the blond in the front with the huge smile she's kind of hot lol?