CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[Smoked Salmon]

I think we're seeing the line they crossed.





I'm wondering if this meltdown isn't part of the game? They make reconciliation with CBS impossible, throw up their hands at how evil CBS is and walk away with whatever cash is left.

I think they would be obliged to repay that cash in such a circumstance as they would not longer be able to deliver on the purpose for which it was donated. Surely that must be some sort of breach of terms of crowdfunding?

Actually their not required to pay.... of course donors could file a class action lawsuit against the prinipcles and try to reclaim funds that way, but I imagine once CBS gets done with them, the stone will be wrung dry...

What do you mean they aren't required to pay?

So you're saying that anyone who funds a kickstarter is throwing money away without any return because people can then just walk away with the money if they decide? That can't be right. Looking at Kickstarter's terms it says promises must be fulfilled.

If Axanar goes bankrupt that, at the very least, they would surely be entitled to become creditors in such proceedings and the trustee in bankruptcy would seek to recover what it could to repay them?

 

[9gs]

If, and its a big if, CBS did not continue to renew its copyright on Star Trek, yes, but not for another 46 years. (Copyright law for works published from 1964-1977 allows for 95 years from date of publication before needing renewal.) But with a cash cow like that, do you really think they wouldn't?

They are going to get owned. The only question is will it be scorched earth in the aftermath or not? They are going after the Star Trek "Movie" aspect. Paramount has hundreds of millions riding on this and they are not going to give a dam if other fan projects get caught in the frag pattern too.

Most of us are hoping that is not the case, that the other fan made episodes / films / videos are in the clear when all is said & done, it seems like only Axanar is in CBS / Para targeting range for starting up their own studio, etc etc etc....

Now we could be wrong and the aftermath of all this could make CBS / Para say "NO more fan-productions" period. Seeing as the folks behind Axanar are calling out the other fan-made productions "They are doing the same thing we are"

So the outcome of this might be bad for everyone.

I'd like to remain optimistic however.

Yes I would like to hope so too. STC just built a engine room that was awesome and I would like to see many more episodes. But if this gets before a judge and looks like it could go to trial then the danger to other fan projects will increase dramatically.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I wonder if Peters, if he is the legal expert he is supposed to be, will play the Chewbacca defense?

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

I think they would be obliged to repay that cash in such a circumstance as they would not longer be able to deliver on the purpose for which it was donated. Surely that must be some sort of breach of terms of crowdfunding?

Actually their not required to pay.... of course donors could file a class action lawsuit against the prinipcles and try to reclaim funds that way, but I imagine once CBS gets done with them, the stone will be wrung dry...

What do you mean they aren't required to pay?

So you're saying that anyone who funds a kickstarter is throwing money away without any return because people can then just walk away with the money if they decide? That can't be right. Looking at Kickstarter's terms it says promises must be fulfilled.

If Axanar goes bankrupt that, at the very least, they would surely be entitled to become creditors in such proceedings and the trustee in bankruptcy would seek to recover what it could to repay them?

Kickstarter has no way to ensure you return the money... There have been a few flops that have seen write ups in various news sources.. but basically, donors have to band together in class action lawsuits... Do you really think the people who are ready to burn down CBS for Axanar would really launch a Class Action lawsuit? Anything that would turn opinion against axanar would only come out at trial, once CBS has taken everything from Axanar and Peters.....

Maybe CBS plans on filming the new trek series at Ares Studios....

Here is an interesting story about Crowdfunding failure...
http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/when-kickstarter-investors-want-their-money-back.html

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

They are going to get owned. The only question is will it be scorched earth in the aftermath or not? They are going after the Star Trek "Movie" aspect. Paramount has hundreds of millions riding on this and they are not going to give a dam if other fan projects get caught in the frag pattern too.

Most of us are hoping that is not the case, that the other fan made episodes / films / videos are in the clear when all is said & done, it seems like only Axanar is in CBS / Para targeting range for starting up their own studio, etc etc etc....

Now we could be wrong and the aftermath of all this could make CBS / Para say "NO more fan-productions" period. Seeing as the folks behind Axanar are calling out the other fan-made productions "They are doing the same thing we are"

So the outcome of this might be bad for everyone.

I'd like to remain optimistic however.

Yes I would like to hope so too. STC just built a engine room that was awesome and I would like to see many more episodes. But if this gets before a judge and looks like it could go to trial then the danger to other fan projects will increase dramatically.

We may see an end to crowdsourcing fundraising... which I think we all expected anyway... Heck STC was planning one final Kickstarter to finish out their run...

It may mean episodes take longer to make.. it also may mean more creative fundraisers.. bake sales and such....

 

[BillJ]

It will be a shame if Peters drags down the rest of the fan film industry with him because of some delusions of becoming rich and famous. He has put many properties at risk that are done by people who simply want to play in the Star Trek universe.

 

[Khan 2.0]

Another thing is having Gary Graham as Soval and an overall look somewhat reminiscent of "Enterprise" almost made it seem an official continuation of that series..?

(btw Tony Todd would be great as an admiral or villain in Trek 4)

 

[Woulfe]

Looking back though this thread and the others that have popped up here in the past 24 hours ( wow has this been going on over a day now ) Something just popped into my head.... THE WRATH OF PARAMOUNT... I for one wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of their wrath that's for certain... I just hope that the fans don't end up paying the price for a few arrogant types who just bit off more then they could chew.

 

[OpenMaw]

I'd love to hear what J.G. Hertzler and Gary Graham have to say about all this.

 

[steam235]

I think they would be obliged to repay that cash in such a circumstance as they would not longer be able to deliver on the purpose for which it was donated. Surely that must be some sort of breach of terms of crowdfunding?

Actually their not required to pay.... of course donors could file a class action lawsuit against the prinipcles and try to reclaim funds that way, but I imagine once CBS gets done with them, the stone will be wrung dry...

What do you mean they aren't required to pay?

So you're saying that anyone who funds a kickstarter is throwing money away without any return because people can then just walk away with the money if they decide? That can't be right. Looking at Kickstarter's terms it says promises must be fulfilled.

If Axanar goes bankrupt that, at the very least, they would surely be entitled to become creditors in such proceedings and the trustee in bankruptcy would seek to recover what it could to repay them?

http://kotaku.com/12-successful-kickstarters-that-never-delivered-1687019268

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I wonder if the meeting between CBS and their lawyers went like this:

Lawyers: Perhaps you should step back a little and try to work with Mr Peters

CBS: He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him. I'll chase him round the courts of Valencia and round the Appeals circuit and round the Supreme Court before I give him up!

 

[Iamnotspock]

I wonder if Peters, if he is the legal expert he is supposed to be, will play the Chewbacca defense?

Pulling CBS's collective arms out of their sockets when he loses?

 

[OpenMaw]

Reminded of The Wounded:

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJudJ9S579A[/yt]

 

[Kelso]

Actually their not required to pay.... of course donors could file a class action lawsuit against the prinipcles and try to reclaim funds that way, but I imagine once CBS gets done with them, the stone will be wrung dry...

What do you mean they aren't required to pay?

So you're saying that anyone who funds a kickstarter is throwing money away without any return because people can then just walk away with the money if they decide? That can't be right. Looking at Kickstarter's terms it says promises must be fulfilled.

If Axanar goes bankrupt that, at the very least, they would surely be entitled to become creditors in such proceedings and the trustee in bankruptcy would seek to recover what it could to repay them?

Kickstarter has no way to ensure you return the money... There have been a few flops that have seen write ups in various news sources.. but basically, donors have to band together in class action lawsuits... Do you really think the people who are ready to burn down CBS for Axanar would really launch a Class Action lawsuit? Anything that would turn opinion against axanar would only come out at trial, once CBS has taken everything from Axanar and Peters.....

Maybe CBS plans on filming the new trek series at Ares Studios....

Here is an interesting story about Crowdfunding failure...
http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/when-kickstarter-investors-want-their-money-back.html

I'd fully expect a few delusional fans to call for a class action suit against CBS/Paramount, but it'll be all talk of course.

Peters will be crowdfunding his next film venture before you know it, with the full support of his Axanar followers.

 

[Count Zero]

IF this somehow goes in front of a Judge, CBS will have no choice but to issue a blanket C&D to every Star Trek fan film project because I'm sure one of Axanar's arguments will be

"We aren't the only ones doing this, and yet we're the only one CBS went after. It's not our fault CBS/Paramount has failed to properly defend their Star Trek IP..."
^^^
And if an argument like that gets on the record in court, the days of CBS silently looking the other way with regard to semi-professional Star Trek fan film project is 100% over; no ifs ands or buts. They will be legally obligated to show due diligence in protecting the Star Trek IP or LOSE their ability to enforce it - thus every fan film group gets a C&D followed by legal action if said C&D isn't complied with.

My question is *IF* Peters were to win, the only way I could see that happening, is by saying CBS hasn't protected it's IP, and tosses their ownership pushing Trek into the Public Domain....

Is that even a possible outcome? And if Star Trek were in the public domain, then that's it, game over, who would continue to create works based on a public brand, other than maybe independents.... It would be awful....

No, that can't happen. As a copyright holder you can't lose your copyrights because you "didn't defend" them or enforce them erratically. You're free to basically do with them whatever you like (at least in the US). A judge can't force Star Trek into the public domain.

I don't think that CBS will now go after all other fan productions because of Axanar. They also have a case of Axanar doing things differently than other productions as we worked out in this thread.

As for what Axanar hopes to achieve in the law suit I'd think getting out of it without being in debt for the rest of their lives would be my guess. That's basically the only thing you can achieve as a best case scenario if something like that happens to you. It seems like this is already past this point, though, to be honest since CBS has already spent money on filing the suit in the first place (and I assume their lawyers aren't cheap).

I'm wondering if this meltdown isn't part of the game? They make reconciliation with CBS impossible, throw up their hands at how evil CBS is and walk away with whatever cash is left.

There won't be any cash left after CBS is done with them.

 

[BillJ]

Peters will be crowdfunding his next film venture before you know it, with the full support of his Axanar followers.

In three to six months, it will be "Alec Who?", as they move onto their next savior of Gene's vision.

 

[EJD1984]

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Paramount have an official statement years ago allowing the fan made films? The studio was seeing them as fan produced "plays", and as long as there was no profit being made from the productions. Alec Peters could use that as an effective defense.

Additional:

I think this (BS) lawsuit is a combination of factors:

1. Some of the past fan Trek productions looked somewhat amateurish, in production, script, and acting, and Paramount didn't see them as a threat to the studios Star Trek franchise. But with recent (major) improvements in overall quality, and budgets. That has now changed.

2. With CBS starting a new Star Trek series on their pay streaming service, they are now trying to "clear the decks" to limit (destroy) and online competition. *I think this is the real key/source to the lawsuit.

 

[Karzak]

Seen on FB...

 

[Karzak]

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Paramount have an official statement years ago allowing the fan made films? The studio was seeing them as fan produced "plays", and as long as there was no profit being made from the productions. Alec Peters could use that as an effective defense.

Additional:

I think this (BS) lawsuit is a combination of factors:

1. Some of the past fan Trek productions looked somewhat amateurish, in production, script, and acting, and Paramount didn't see them as a threat to the studios Star Trek franchise. But with recent (major) improvements in overall quality, and budgets. That has now changed.

2. With CBS starting a new Star Trek series on their pay streaming service, they are now trying to clear the decks to limit (destroy) and online competition.

People forget what a small "world" this is actually affecting. Fan films might be a big deal in fandom, but Joe Q. Average gives literally zero fucks about all this.

But when you have major news outlets broadcasting footage from Renegades as if it were officially produced content from CBS, of course the studio is going to sit up and pay attention and take action. Their brand, their name is now being interspersed with these amateur productions and in some cases that may not be something CBS and Paramount want. Now they're taking their toys home and leaving Alec and Diana and Burnett in the sandbox, likely in tears because they can't fathom why this is all happening.

 

[JoeZhang]

I think they would be obliged to repay that cash in such a circumstance as they would not longer be able to deliver on the purpose for which it was donated. Surely that must be some sort of breach of terms of crowdfunding?

I don't think so - unless it's straight up fraud, I think the terms and conditions of the sites are you agree that you give the money with no recourse. The site itself just acts as a middle-man.

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Paramount have an official statement years ago allowing the fan made films?

No I don't think so - anyone?