CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[JoeZhang]

Except, that this past August, Peters, on the Axanar website released a statement, that CBS Specifically stated that they COULD NOT tell Axanar what they could, and could not do.

And we take this statement on face value because...?????

Because from a legal perspective it makes sense. If CBS gave direction to someone who isn't licensed to use their IP, ont HOW to use their IP, it opens CBS up to other parties claiming they abandoned their IP, putting their claim on Star Trek in Jeopardy....

Sorry ignore me - I read your statement back to front.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

If CBS lose the rights to their own products/characters/trademarks, then I claim ownership of Lt. Jae

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

If they did have any chance of an amicable resolution, they torpedoed that with their childish reaction and their "rallying" of the troops.

The smart thing to have done would have been to say something to the effect of "This is Axanar. We've been served some papers. CBS and Axanar are having some professional/creative differences, and we're going to try and solve this as quickly and calmly as possible. Stay tuned."

Kept it calm, kept it civil. CBS may have been willing to allow Axanar to go forward with some changes.

If CBS/Paramount intended to allow Axanar to go forward with changes, why a filed lawsuit, and not simply a C&D to Peters to get his attention, and then privately have meetings.

I wonder if a C&D had already been sent and ignored by the production team.... I would ask Alec on Facebook, bt I don't expect I would get anything but some snarky response.

 

[Woulfe]

This whole thing seems like a Soap Opera plot now, very surreal indeed... It's like it seems like we're watching a parody of something... It's so out of touch with reality...

We just got served papers from CBS / Paramount... Let's go to Disneyland...
( well they went out for sushi, but you could easily put that in place of that )

 

[Trekkin]

Lawyers jump in and correct me if I'm wrong - a company can lose exclusive control of its trademarks due to various lapses, but not copyrights.

There's such a thing as 'implied consent', which is basically consent through action/inaction. It's a big deal in tort and contracts, but hinges on 'reasonabless' - would a reasonable person have come to the same conclusions in regards to the claimants actions etc etc.

But copyright is a different beast. It's somewhat seperate from just contact and property (IP) law.

 

[Campe]

Scroll down a bit.

If that is the person serving the papers, he could have at least worn a suit

I don't know about the US, but here a courier can do it. In some places, it can also be delivered via mail man.

I'm a paralegal for a major medical center in Tennessee. One of my primary responsibilities is accepting service on subpoenas for doctors and other staff members. You should see some of the crap that process servers come in. This guys is dressed to the nines in comparison to one of the guys I deal with on a regular basis. (He also doesn't seem to take a shower. Ever.)

 

[Bixby]

This whole situation is bad, but I'll wait to see how it resolves itself. I'm hoping this does not spill out into fan films of different IPs (for those of you who might not know, for the last few months a group seeking to revive the old Gerry Anderson Thunderbirds ALSO had a successful Kickstarter and just recently completed filming 3 new tribute webisodes. I'm not entirely sure about the rights issues).

The only other comment I wish to say is, I've had a chance to read through this incredibly dense thread, and there were quite a few posters with very reasonable comments. At the same time I have had to go through paragraphs that sadly revealed a lot, LOT more about the people who wrote them.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Still a bit shocking to see that sort of dress...

From reading a number of articles, it appears as if Peters is not a nice guy at times

 

[Tom]

http://www.axanarproductions.com/captains-log-dec-30th-2015/

Five stages of grief:

- Denial (yup, definitely some major denial from crew and fans alike)
- Anger (that's starting to set in now too)
- Bargaining
- Depression
- Acceptance

 

[9gs]

My question is *IF* Peters were to win, the only way I could see that happening, is by saying CBS hasn't protected it's IP, and tosses their ownership pushing Trek into the Public Domain....

Is that even a possible outcome? And if Star Trek were in the public domain, then that's it, game over, who would continue to create works based on a public brand, other than maybe independents.... It would be awful....

If, and its a big if, CBS did not continue to renew its copyright on Star Trek, yes, but not for another 46 years. (Copyright law for works published from 1964-1977 allows for 95 years from date of publication before needing renewal.) But with a cash cow like that, do you really think they wouldn't?

They are going to get owned. The only question is will it be scorched earth in the aftermath or not? They are going after the Star Trek "Movie" aspect. Paramount has hundreds of millions riding on this and they are not going to give a dam if other fan projects get caught in the frag pattern too.

 

[BillJ]

In the 2016 plans: besides the actual Axanar shoot, there is( or was) supposed to be another Kickstarter for an Axanar Four Years War book anthology. Kickstarter for a "Ships of Axanar" coffee table book. The AxaCon (ouch!) event convention, and their "Sci-Fi Film School"

I think we're seeing the line they crossed.

There are fans who insist if they boycott the new movie, then CBS will realize the error of their ways. I mentioned that if every single member of the Axanar fan page (68,000 people) boycotted the film, it wouldn't equal a drop in the bucket (68000 x $10= $680,000), as the latest Star Trek film made $467,000,000 globally, and it took Axanar over a year to pull together $1,500,000.

This didn't go over well.

I'm wondering if this meltdown isn't part of the game? They make reconciliation with CBS impossible, throw up their hands at how evil CBS is and walk away with whatever cash is left.

 

[OpenMaw]

If CBS/Paramount intended to allow Axanar to go forward with changes, why a filed lawsuit, and not simply a C&D to Peters to get his attention, and then privately have meetings.

Fair point. However, I think they may have at least had a chance to discuss it with CBS. A very slim, perhaps infinitesimal chance, but still a chance.

Going the way they did. No chance. CBS will likely not show any mercy now, and the chances are very high we might see all the high profile productions under fire... "And that's sad" as Gul Dukat said.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

In the 2016 plans: besides the actual Axanar shoot, there is( or was) supposed to be another Kickstarter for an Axanar Four Years War book anthology. Kickstarter for a "Ships of Axanar" coffee table book. The AxaCon (ouch!) event convention, and their "Sci-Fi Film School"

I think we're seeing the line they crossed.

There are fans who insist if they boycott the new movie, then CBS will realize the error of their ways. I mentioned that if every single member of the Axanar fan page (68,000 people) boycotted the film, it wouldn't equal a drop in the bucket (68000 x $10= $680,000), as the latest Star Trek film made $467,000,000 globally, and it took Axanar over a year to pull together $1,500,000.

This didn't go over well.

I'm wondering if this meltdown isn't part of the game? They make reconciliation with CBS impossible, throw up their hands at how evil CBS is and walk away with whatever cash is left.

That could be their original plan all along, perhaps

 

[Smoked Salmon]

In the 2016 plans: besides the actual Axanar shoot, there is( or was) supposed to be another Kickstarter for an Axanar Four Years War book anthology. Kickstarter for a "Ships of Axanar" coffee table book. The AxaCon (ouch!) event convention, and their "Sci-Fi Film School"

I think we're seeing the line they crossed.

There are fans who insist if they boycott the new movie, then CBS will realize the error of their ways. I mentioned that if every single member of the Axanar fan page (68,000 people) boycotted the film, it wouldn't equal a drop in the bucket (68000 x $10= $680,000), as the latest Star Trek film made $467,000,000 globally, and it took Axanar over a year to pull together $1,500,000.

This didn't go over well.

I'm wondering if this meltdown isn't part of the game? They make reconciliation with CBS impossible, throw up their hands at how evil CBS is and walk away with whatever cash is left.

I think they would be obliged to repay that cash in such a circumstance as they would not longer be able to deliver on the purpose for which it was donated. Surely that must be some sort of breach of terms of crowdfunding?

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

In the 2016 plans: besides the actual Axanar shoot, there is( or was) supposed to be another Kickstarter for an Axanar Four Years War book anthology. Kickstarter for a "Ships of Axanar" coffee table book. The AxaCon (ouch!) event convention, and their "Sci-Fi Film School"

I think we're seeing the line they crossed.

There are fans who insist if they boycott the new movie, then CBS will realize the error of their ways. I mentioned that if every single member of the Axanar fan page (68,000 people) boycotted the film, it wouldn't equal a drop in the bucket (68000 x $10= $680,000), as the latest Star Trek film made $467,000,000 globally, and it took Axanar over a year to pull together $1,500,000.

This didn't go over well.

I'm wondering if this meltdown isn't part of the game? They make reconciliation with CBS impossible, throw up their hands at how evil CBS is and walk away with whatever cash is left.

Could be, I have thought about that... basically this is a way to get out of making the film which they seem to be struggling to do (Sets aren't even done yet, film isn't yet cast - Per Peters on Facebook) and they can walk away while blaming CBS, and point to their disclaimer in the Kickstarter/Indigogo... and say, see it's not our fault we didn't deliver...

 

[Smoked Salmon]

If that is the person serving the papers, he could have at least worn a suit

I don't know about the US, but here a courier can do it. In some places, it can also be delivered via mail man.

I'm a paralegal for a major medical center in Tennessee. One of my primary responsibilities is accepting service on subpoenas for doctors and other staff members. You should see some of the crap that process servers come in. This guys is dressed to the nines in comparison to one of the guys I deal with on a regular basis. (He also doesn't seem to take a shower. Ever.)

And he would be very wise to dress that way.

Process servers have a hard enough time as it is serving proceedings. It makes it easier for them if their target is unsuspecting.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

In the 2016 plans: besides the actual Axanar shoot, there is( or was) supposed to be another Kickstarter for an Axanar Four Years War book anthology. Kickstarter for a "Ships of Axanar" coffee table book. The AxaCon (ouch!) event convention, and their "Sci-Fi Film School"

I think we're seeing the line they crossed.

There are fans who insist if they boycott the new movie, then CBS will realize the error of their ways. I mentioned that if every single member of the Axanar fan page (68,000 people) boycotted the film, it wouldn't equal a drop in the bucket (68000 x $10= $680,000), as the latest Star Trek film made $467,000,000 globally, and it took Axanar over a year to pull together $1,500,000.

This didn't go over well.

I'm wondering if this meltdown isn't part of the game? They make reconciliation with CBS impossible, throw up their hands at how evil CBS is and walk away with whatever cash is left.

I think they would be obliged to repay that cash in such a circumstance as they would not longer be able to deliver on the purpose for which it was donated. Surely that must be some sort of breach of terms of crowdfunding?

Actually their not required to pay.... of course donors could file a class action lawsuit against the prinipcles and try to reclaim funds that way, but I imagine once CBS gets done with them, the stone will be wrung dry...

 

[Campe]

If CBS/Paramount intended to allow Axanar to go forward with changes, why a filed lawsuit, and not simply a C&D to Peters to get his attention, and then privately have meetings.

Fair point. However, I think they may have at least had a chance to discuss it with CBS. A very slim, perhaps infinitesimal chance, but still a chance.

Going the way they did. No chance. CBS will likely not show any mercy now, and the chances are very high we might see all the high profile productions under fire... "And that's sad" as Gul Dukat said.

I really wonder if this isn't a warning for other fan films to not cross this invisible line so Continues, Phase II, Renegades? They've all got to be careful now. I think Renegades is doing the smart thing by doing one more and calling it a day.

 

[9gs]

In the 2016 plans: besides the actual Axanar shoot, there is( or was) supposed to be another Kickstarter for an Axanar Four Years War book anthology. Kickstarter for a "Ships of Axanar" coffee table book. The AxaCon (ouch!) event convention, and their "Sci-Fi Film School"

I think we're seeing the line they crossed.

There are fans who insist if they boycott the new movie, then CBS will realize the error of their ways. I mentioned that if every single member of the Axanar fan page (68,000 people) boycotted the film, it wouldn't equal a drop in the bucket (68000 x $10= $680,000), as the latest Star Trek film made $467,000,000 globally, and it took Axanar over a year to pull together $1,500,000.

This didn't go over well.

I'm wondering if this meltdown isn't part of the game? They make reconciliation with CBS impossible, throw up their hands at how evil CBS is and walk away with whatever cash is left.

That could be their original plan all along, perhaps

CBS/Paramount will not settle unless Axanar is completely broke and unable to continue with an injunction against any future Star Trek related projects. Why would they?

 

[Woulfe]

My question is *IF* Peters were to win, the only way I could see that happening, is by saying CBS hasn't protected it's IP, and tosses their ownership pushing Trek into the Public Domain....

Is that even a possible outcome? And if Star Trek were in the public domain, then that's it, game over, who would continue to create works based on a public brand, other than maybe independents.... It would be awful....

If, and its a big if, CBS did not continue to renew its copyright on Star Trek, yes, but not for another 46 years. (Copyright law for works published from 1964-1977 allows for 95 years from date of publication before needing renewal.) But with a cash cow like that, do you really think they wouldn't?

They are going to get owned. The only question is will it be scorched earth in the aftermath or not? They are going after the Star Trek "Movie" aspect. Paramount has hundreds of millions riding on this and they are not going to give a dam if other fan projects get caught in the frag pattern too.

Most of us are hoping that is not the case, that the other fan made episodes / films / videos are in the clear when all is said & done, it seems like only Axanar is in CBS / Para targeting range for starting up their own studio, etc etc etc....

Now we could be wrong and the aftermath of all this could make CBS / Para say "NO more fan-productions" period. Seeing as the folks behind Axanar are calling out the other fan-made productions "They are doing the same thing we are"

So the outcome of this might be bad for everyone.

I'd like to remain optimistic however.