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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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Okay, let's not forget it worked the other way around when Bush-41 was on the way out and the Dems were in control of the Congress. It's nothing new in Washington DC and goes back to when Washington himself was President.

That said, can we please PLEASE PLEASE keep politics down in The Neutral Zone, shall we??
 
Who knows? Basic obstructionism, most likely. The point in asking was that - considering the current polls - there is a chance that the Senate majority and the President will be in the same party, thus a lot of those empty seats will be filled, which means the FTC might be "back on the beat" in a few months.

Just to de-escelate the politics, I believe that President Obama has actually not made any nominations for the two vacant seats. And as far as I can tell, none of his prior FTC appointments have been rejected or delayed by the Senate. So this really isn't a partisan issue. The FTC is simply not a priority for the White House or the Senate, especially with a lame-duck administration.
 
Just to de-escelate the politics, I believe that President Obama has actually not made any nominations for the two vacant seats. And as far as I can tell, none of his prior FTC appointments have been rejected or delayed by the Senate. So this really isn't a partisan issue. The FTC is simply not a priority for the White House or the Senate, especially with a lame-duck administration.
If that is the case, how does having a "full" commission impact the commission's work load?
 
Oops, I forgot to add these:

Blog post
http://www.gandtshow.com/g-t-show-257-jad-branet/
YouTube (Semantic Shenanigans segment starts at about 31 minutes in):
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Also, would anyone be interested in a separate topic (probably in General Trek) about Semantic Shenanigans? I don't want to look like I'm spamming the boards so it would need some responses, if anyone is interested. Thanks - and thank you for your kind support.
I would be interested
 
This is why I hope some regulation hits crowdfunding, and soon (but it'll have to wait, at least here in the US, until after the election).
...
And KS gets to keep their share of the moola. But they feel awfully complicit in all of this, and that's what is sticking in my craw.

So propose a Kickstarter to make a new Bond/Avengers/TMNT/Star Wars/GOT fan film mashup, with identical pitch otherwise as Axanar. When KS blocks it for IP reasons, there's evidence for anyone who wants to hold KS to account for Axanar.
 
Sources are telling me that Axanar has run into its own discovery troubles — namely, there's emerging evidence they didn't turn over all relevant emails to CBS/Paramount's lawyers.

That's rich considering their crowing about the motion to compel. I'm guessing Ranahan didn't know about these emails.
 
This is why I hope some regulation hits crowdfunding, and soon (but it'll have to wait, at least here in the US, until after the election).

KS courted AP and Axa, so they had to have had some clue about what was happening. After all, on their IGG fundraising page, Axa says:


Emphasis mine. And I didn't have to hunt for that. It's there on the front page, just below the two videos.

So KS knew even before they started courting AP and Axa (at least they should have known) that the production had no license.

KS is, as you correctly stated, a kind of advertising/delivery system.

However, because they knowingly violated their own Terms of Use, and actively courted the business of a known (admitted!) IP infringer, I have a lot of trouble with KS coming out smelling like a rose (and keeping their cut of the $$) at the end of all of this. Although, that's highly likely to be what happens.

Donors get stiffed out of a movie, out of perks (although admittedly some are being shipped now - a couple of years late - presumably to pat donors on the head and get them to shaddap), and out of money. AP gets a judgment against him or has to pay court costs or, even if he wins, his life is certainly taken up by this stuff.

And KS gets to keep their share of the moola. But they feel awfully complicit in all of this, and that's what is sticking in my craw.
Oh, I totally agree that regulation is needed, and frankly they are complicit in the IP infringement in my opinion. However, they would inevitably rely on the defence that their terms were clear so I think it's something that, in the absence of regulation, would need to be tested in court. Whether that happens any time soon remains to be seen.
 
That's rich considering their crowing about the motion to compel. I'm guessing Ranahan didn't know about these emails.
^^^
That's probably going to be her story <--- And she's sticking to it as IF it turns out to be true - she could be facing monetary court sanction fines from the Judge against her personally and her law firm (Depending on the situation and the mood of the Judge.)
 
^^^
That's probably going to be her story <--- And she's sticking to it as IF it turns out to be true - she could be facing monetary court sanction fines from the Judge against her personally and her law firm (Depending on the situation and the mood of the Judge.)
I would be really surprised if Erin Ranahan knew anything about this. No lawyer of her stature would expose herself in such a way, given that it's relatively easy to prove the emails exist and weren't turned over.

It's also entirely possible that the people in possession of those emails simply didn't find them after a good-faith search and that's why they weren't turned in. But the price they pay for that is that your credibility is now under a cloud, and you generally can't buy back your credibility in a legal case.
 
Sources are telling me that Axanar has run into its own discovery troubles — namely, there's emerging evidence they didn't turn over all relevant emails to CBS/Paramount's lawyers.
Here is (part of) what Rule 37 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure says about failing to comply with a discovery order:
If a party or a party's officer, director, or managing agent—or a witness designated under Rule 30(b)(6) or 31(a)(4)—fails to obey an order to provide or permit discovery, including an order under Rule 26(f), 35, or 37(a), the court where the action is pending may issue further just orders. They may include the following:

(i) directing that the matters embraced in the order or other designated facts be taken as established for purposes of the action, as the prevailing party claims;

(ii) prohibiting the disobedient party from supporting or opposing designated claims or defenses, or from introducing designated matters in evidence;

(iii) striking pleadings in whole or in part;

(iv) staying further proceedings until the order is obeyed;

(v) dismissing the action or proceeding in whole or in part;

(vi) rendering a default judgment against the disobedient party; or

(vii) treating as contempt of court the failure to obey any order except an order to submit to a physical or mental examination.
 
I would be really surprised if Erin Ranahan knew anything about this. No lawyer of her stature would expose herself in such a way, given that it's relatively easy to prove the emails exist and weren't turned over.

It's also entirely possible that the people in possession of those emails simply didn't find them after a good-faith search and that's why they weren't turned in. But the price they pay for that is that your credibility is now under a cloud, and you generally can't buy back your credibility in a legal case.
Trust me - it's a standard Civil lawyer tactic.

It DOES look really bad though when you make a motion about the other side sandbagging; and YOU get caught possibly sandbagging. Is it possible she didn't know? Yes - but IMO, unlikely. If Alec WAS willfully holding out on her - (IE Alec was being evasive with his own attorneys) the firm may decide to bail after the verdict; and Alec/Axanar would need to find another firm to handle an appeal (if they 'lose' of course.)
 
Okay, stuck in a hotel room on a tiny little screen, so... I'll probably miss some things. :)

The contract between provider and donor is a classic type of contract. The donors are giving consideration in exchange for something. To claim that isn't a contract is bizarre. Donors don't fund Kickstarter or expect any kind of return from them. They do it with the providers.

The way I see it, there are three effective contracts involved here:

A: Between Peters and Kickstarter (TOS)
B: Between Donor and Kickstarter (TOS)
C: Between Peters and Donor (as mentioned, Kickstarter is not a party to this one).

The first two are (AFAIK) the only ones that mention the requirement to own the IP. I have no doubt that Peters breached (A), presuming that he didn't make other arrangements with KS; I'm not disputing that. But that would be breach of contract, not criminal fraud IMO (and I could easily be wrong here).

The last one (C) is a different beast entirely.

He intentionally used the service when he knew he had no permission from the IP holder and simply pointing to other fan films that were also doing it, as he has done, is not good enough excuse for using Kickstarter in the absence of those permissions in my opinion.

And that would support a breach of contract with KS; but I personally don't think it's relevant to fraud.

And? That doesn't mean he hasn't still breach the KS terms of service. Not all donors will read "campaign documents". They will however all be required to accept the KS terms of service. How many small sum donators do you think read the "campaign documents"?

As you yourself said, not reading it is no excuse. :devil:

On a more serious note, though, the question becomes: what are the terms of the contract between Peters and the donor? Since I didn't donate (and have never donated with Kickstarter), I don't have a clear view on this -- but from an outside perspective, I would argue that the "sale contract" is effectively defined by the campaign advertisement. Unless I'm missing something, the TOS is not incorporated into that contract either directly or by reference, thus (A) and (B) are irrelevant from this perspective.

That would mean that, as far as the donor is concerned, the lack of ownership of the IP (and the risk involved) was disclosed. No fraud. Stupidity, yes, but no fraud. :)

Well, I'd say that the issues we are discussing aren't too much of a problem for the donors because of the contract that exists between them and Peters. They paid him in return for a completed movie. If the litigation makes that impossible then he has failed to fulfil that contract and they are entitled to their money back on the basis of breach.

Now this one is more interesting. While I think he would be hard to pin for fraud, a claim for breach of contract would probably be a different beast. The question is: what does the contract say about the risks? I've always been under the impression that this is the risk of donating with Kickstarter, and what makes it a "donation" instead of a purchase: if delivery doesn't come off, you have no recourse.

If that's the case, then it's possible that the only way donors will truly have recourse is if someone can make a successful fraud claim; then the contract would essentially have been agreed to under false pretenses, and I would think that would open Peters up to a nasty class action or something, and maybe even criminal proceedings.

I'm with @jespah on this: I would really like to see more clarity (and probably regulation) around what's legal with crowdfunding. To my logic, "donating for a perk" is equivalent to "making a sale" -- which means you should damn well get what you paid for!

Of course, whether Peters has the money to repay all donors is another matter entirely....... ;)

Two words: Sushi and Damages. :)

So KS knew even before they started courting AP and Axa (at least they should have known) that the production had no license.

Is that true about KS and Axa?

I seem to recall that when the Indiegogo campaign started it was openly stated that they had courted Axanar, so IGG is almost certainly on the hook there. Did KS court Axanar also? I can't recall if that's the case or not, but I'm thinking not.
 
If that's the case, then it's possible that the only way donors will truly have recourse is if someone can make a successful fraud claim; then the contract would essentially have been agreed to under false pretenses, and I would think that would open Peters up to a nasty class action or something, and maybe even criminal proceedings.
Well, there's another alternative, which is for a donor to bring a claim under the California Unfair Competition Law, which broadly prohibits any "unlawful, unfair or fraudulent business act or practice and unfair, deceptive, untrue or misleading advertising." (Italics added) The UCL is the state counterpart to the Federal Trade Commission Act. It sets a much lower bar to recovery than fraud. You don't even need an actual victim--only evidence that the defendant's actions might have deceived or misled a consumer.
 
Lane, an 'expert witness' ?? :guffaw::guffaw::guffaw:

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