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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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No, but given that Peters misrepresented to his "donors" (read contractual party) that his movie was authorised by the IP holder

I've seen this a couple of times now; can you provide links?

I agree that Peters played fast and loose with a lot of things, but this isn't one I have any recollection of. ISTR the original kickstarter listing this in the risks section. If I've missed something, please do enlighten me. :) The only thing I remember specifically was that they did not disclose to their potential donors @ kickstarter/igg immediately upon actually being sued.

Of course, I might have just forgotten. Seriously, there's been so much crap that I think I've forgotten more about Axanar than I care to admit to. :)
 
True, that disclaimer was buried in the notes on Kickstarter (as if anyone reads all the fine print), but on Facebook they would tell people "we've talked with CBS" or "CBS doesn't have a problem with fan films" if asked about permission.

When Prelude first came out, a couple friends and me found their Facebook page. My friend asked about rights from FASA as they're using the Four Years War story line. They told us they didn't need to because it's out of print. We pointed out that even out of print, someone still holds the copyright. They told us we didn't know what we're talking about. Tried to reply back and found my friend's account was blocked from posting and the whole thread about FASA was deleted a few hours later when a second friend tried to post a message.
 
Absolutely. People making the films have all known that from the word go. But fans, the donators, may not know that. New Voyages / Phase-2 had the backing the Gene Roddenberry's son, giving them the appearance of legitimacy even though they admitted they were working without official approval. They never claimed to be something they weren't and tried to correct people who thought otherwise.. Mr. Peters on the other hand implied and even flatly stated he had or was seeking written permission from CBS, even after he was told straight up he would never get such permission. His donors gave money believing he had the legal ability to finish the project. I am of the opinion a case could be made for fraud / theft by deception.

This brings me back to a point I've made several times on this thread, which is that there is a very strong case that AP has violated Section 5 of the Federal Trade Commission Act, which states in relevant part, "Unfair methods of competition in or affecting commerce, and unfair or deceptive acts or practices in or affecting commerce, are hereby declared unlawful."

I believe the Axanar podcasts alone would be sufficient to prove a Section 5 violation. Trust me, the FTC has acted on the basis of much, much less.
 
The descriptions of willful infringement online that I see seem to apply on both prongs to Axanar Productions. But W&S continue to push wrt/ the studios having made some sort of internal policy regarding fair use. How could an internal policy, even backed by its implementation as observed across fan films, alter the statutory law test for willful infringement?

So regarding the issue of "willful infringement," there is a recent Ninth Circuit case on this subject. The plaintiff is a photographer who took several pictures of the hip hop group Run-DMC in the 1980s. The defendant is a merchandising company that used the photographs without permission to produce various products.

The defendant conceded there was copyright infringement but disputed that it was "willful." The trial court granted summary judgment to the defendant on this issue, but the Ninth Circuit reversed and said the plaintiff could proceed to trial.

The Ninth Circuit explained that "willful" infringement can refer to either "intentional" or "reckless" behavior. In other words, the defendant is liable if its actions "were the result of reckless disregard for, or willful blindness to the copyright holder's rights." It is therefore not necessary to prove the defendant had "actual" knowledge of the infringement (although that helps).

In this case, the evidence obtained during discovery revealed the defendant's approval process for licensing products may have been reckless. The defendant obtained permission to use the photographs from Run-DMC, but not the plaintiff, and in fact the defendant "never explicitly [asked] about copyrights at all" in its licensing forms. The defendant argued it was merely following "industry practice," although the Court noted this policy was "never reflected in any document."

This last point is interesting because it speaks to a key element of AP's defense--namely, that they were following the unofficial, unwritten standards for fan films, i.e. the "industry practice." But the Ninth Circuit said a defendant can't rely on that. In the Ninth Circuit's case, the Court said there was evidence that the defendant "knew there was a risk that photos of Run-DMC would be [the plaintiff's] photos, but nonetheless went forward with developing the merchandise without taking steps to ascertain whether it featured [his] work."

Again, I think there's a strong parallel to the AP situation. Even if AP thought they could avoid infringement as a "fan film," they still had know "there was a risk" and failed to take proper steps--i.e., obtain a license or written permission from C/P--to ensure they were not infringing.

One final note: Although the burden is on the plaintiff to prove willful infringement, the Ninth Circuit said there were no cases it was aware of where "a court has granted summary judgment in favor of a defendant" on this issue. This is because willful infringement is a fact-specific inquiry based on "an assessment of a defendant's state of mind."
 
1) All donations amount to a contractual relationship between donor and provider; and

2) Providers must confirm on sign up that they have permission to use copyrighted material where applicable.

Y'know that second one did always bother me; it always struck me that he was in direct violation of KS terms of use. I actually wonder if that could have enabled the studios to go after KS for a sort of contributory willful infringement. Didn't they seek Alec out or something, or was that only Indiegogo? Of course, that was Alec's claim; who knows if they actually did or not.

In any event, I'm on the fence on this one. He certainly violated the terms of service, but to be fraudulent he'd have to represent himself as having permission from Paramount, which he was always cagey about. He made a lot of "we know what's going on" and "it'll be fine" type of statements, but I don't believe he ever actually said they had permission.

Probably splitting hairs, I guess; Alec Peters could be the poster boy for deceptive business practices. Propworx is proof enough of that. :devil:
 
There have been plenty of fanfilms who paid for such services, so I'm not sure that''s a valid point.
When you are paying someone to recreate a Star Trek character, a prop or whatever, who is infringing on the copyright, the studio paying for it or the person being paid to recreate it?
Probably both, including the recreation of Captain Garth which seemly received a payment for his involvement.
Axanar released a financial statement claiming they paid quite a bit of money to have CBS/Paramount IP recreated for them, including a $38,000 paycheck to Peters. If that point is proven fact, I don't see judgement taking much over 30 seconds.
If nobody else used 3rd party services you wouldn't see the need to raise tens of thousands of dollars to create a production because it would just be a bunch of fans getting together, doing what they love for the sake of creating a fan film.
 
Y'know that second one did always bother me; it always struck me that he was in direct violation of KS terms of use. I actually wonder if that could have enabled the studios to go after KS for a sort of contributory willful infringement. Didn't they seek Alec out or something, or was that only Indiegogo? Of course, that was Alec's claim; who knows if they actually did or not.

In any event, I'm on the fence on this one. He certainly violated the terms of service, but to be fraudulent he'd have to represent himself as having permission from Paramount, which he was always cagey about. He made a lot of "we know what's going on" and "it'll be fine" type of statements, but I don't believe he ever actually said they had permission.

Probably splitting hairs, I guess; Alec Peters could be the poster boy for deceptive business practices. Propworx is proof enough of that. :devil:
See, it's not so much about whether or not Kickstarter is a contributor, but rather in order to sign up and use the service Peters has to agree to the Kickstarter terms. Any donor has a legitimate expectation that if a provider like Peters signs up then they have the necessary permissions for any IP based work. He knowingly signed up for Kickstarter knowing he hadn't obtained the necessary permission, and nonetheless extracted funds from donors. That's where the fraud lies. What's more, he fund raised for a movie. He did not fund raise for salaries, a for profit studio and so on. That is another fraud and also civil misrepresentation. In layman's terms, he solicited money without giving his donors the full facts.
 
I again have to question the "logo" part of the case, or the insignia on the uniforms with the warp curve. That has been used so many times I don't feel it would be right to claim infringement on that.

From what I read here, I think the bottom line was that this producer set out to make what is a commercial movie with his own script, then make money off it apart from the studio. At that point he is way over the line and was trying to take over the franchise by making films he or what he sees as fans wanting instead of what the studio wants.

Back to my earlier question, If, big IF, the studio sold items to people knowing they would be used in fan features they have a bad set of facts. That is my opinion not being a copyright attorney on Axanar's best case defense of the litigation. If Axanar set out to make their own commercial film, which it appears to me they did, then game over for them.

The Phase II, New Voyages, to me seem to be non profit, they were made for "fun" or hobbyists and posted on YouTube or other venues for free a clear difference to me.

I don't believe the story that the production was to be used a "calling card" for actors, or others. Maybe in some cases that is so, but the purpose was to make a commercial fan demanded picture rather than a studio business driven picture.
 
This is because willful infringement is a fact-specific inquiry based on "an assessment of a defendant's state of mind."

I am curious as to the communications, if any, between the studio and Axanar before the fact. Did the studio know this was in the works and when or to what extent? Did Peters write to them to obtain certain permission or clear anything which he may have then expanded from an inch to a mile.
 
From what I read here, I think the bottom line was that this producer set out to make what is a commercial movie with his own script, then make money off it apart from the studio. At that point he is way over the line and was trying to take over the franchise by making films he or what he sees as fans wanting instead of what the studio wants.
I take your point. I will add that I 'think' there is a consensus most places, and here, that the movie itself has always been purported and advertised by everyone involved to be absolutely non-profit.

Which I think could have been tinkered with were it to have been a particularly advertised draw that was 'presented' as a, let's say, panel or some such as a workaround. And/or using viewing of it -free- to facilitate donations.

The funds built studio on the other hand has multiple references of future goal productions. Even if not blatant, there are proposed classes, convention, alluded to streaming, other sci-fi productions, etc. .... for years to come. And there's that store, termed donor store. And the prop store housed there. Which begs the question of non-profit.

I don't believe the story that the production was to be used a "calling card" for actors, or others..
I definitely get what you're saying. Here I will also add that I 'believe' the wording was the film was to be a calling card for the producer, production company, and I could, now that you're mentioning it, see where that factor could be extended to actors also.

I 'think' the implication what this film was to give example to the 'Business' that this company could produce a product that would be competitive. Now, competitive as a not-for-profit studio for fan films that brings in little to no revenue to pay that enormous rent and upkeep seems questionable at the very least to me. Though I believe it has been spun since the lawsuit landed to be just that.

The most telling contradiction to this, for me at least, is the client saying in 2015 (before the lawsuit) he is hoping investors will get interested in the production company. I heard him say this in at least one of the production's official podcasts or vlogs. Which supports what I, and I 'think' you, seem to think, that it is fanciful to imagine the endgame has ever been anything short of a revenue producer.
 
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He knowingly signed up for Kickstarter knowing he hadn't obtained the necessary permission, and nonetheless extracted funds from donors. That's where the fraud lies.

This, I think, is where we disagree. This statement presumes that the average Kickstarter donor is even aware of what people agree to when they sign up to solicit donations on Kickstarter. I don't think the vast majority are, so this can't really be construed to be fraudulent with respect to the donor (since he had it in the disclaimers).

He could potentially be liable for intent to defraud Kickstarter itself, though that would be pretty thin since they would still benefit from it regardless of the outcome.

To be clear, I'm not defending Peters in the slightest; I just don't think this argument would go anywhere in a court of law. There are too many ways he can weasel out of it.

What's more, he fund raised for a movie. He did not fund raise for salaries, a for profit studio and so on. That is another fraud and also civil misrepresentation. In layman's terms, he solicited money without giving his donors the full facts.

This one I'm unclear on. I would have to go back and check the Kickstarter again, but I think in the current incarnations of the campaigns, the studio is mentioned. I've also heard that this may have been a retroactive addition, but I'm fuzzy on the details (or if the retroactivity was relative to something else). From the moment that I found out about it, though, the studio was included I believe.

Of course, in going back and checking, I ran into this gem from the Prelude kickstarter (which I hadn't read before):

Prelude Kickstarter convincingly said:
Infrastructure - We are spending $ 10,000 to fund the infrastructure of Axanar Productions. This means the legal paperwork needed to create our production company and the rather expensive insurance to cover all our productions over the coming year. It allows us to set up production offices (We have gotten the space for free in some amazing offices here in Los Angeles) and start to produce Axanar.

Well, the "free office" thing didn't last long, did it? But I digress. In the Axanar kickstarter, it says this:

The Big Sleazy smarmily said:
We have two potential locations we are negotiating for to serve as our sound stage in Valencia, CA, just north of LA. This will be the permanent home of Axanar Productions and allow us to do more than just Axanar, from other adventures in the Star Trek universe and beyond. [...] First year's rent is $ 125,000.

It also talks about the cost of renovation of the sound stage, so unless that was retroactively added (which I can't speak to), then fraud will be hard to prove on the basis of the studio shenanigans.

Of course, while the consumers may have little recourse there, Paramount/CBS can nail him to the wall on that I'd think. Using the Star Trek brand to raise money without permission is a no-no, especially when your newly funded studio is a commercial venture in the end.

I again have to question the "logo" part of the case, or the insignia on the uniforms with the warp curve. That has been used so many times I don't feel it would be right to claim infringement on that.

This implies that if someone steals my car enough times, it shouldn't be a crime. I may think there is room for improvement in the fairness of intellectual property law, but I certainly do not advocate wholesale theft being legal just because it's a popular pastime.
 
I again have to question the "logo" part of the case, or the insignia on the uniforms with the warp curve. That has been used so many times I don't feel it would be right to claim infringement on that.

So, your defense is "Hey that's been stolen so many times, I should get a pass for stealing it too?"...

Please. And people wonder WHY IP Holder sue to protect their IPs.

That defense just doesn't work. It's like if you're in a group of cars all doing 80 MPH in a 65 MPH zone; and a cop pulls you over and gives you a ticket. If you then fight the ticket in court and say to the Judge: "Why me? Everyone else in the area was doing 80 too..." I can guarantee the verdict he'll hand down is "Guilty." and you'll have to pay the fine.

Why? You broke the law and the Cop pulled YOU over and handed you the citation
 
When you are paying someone to recreate a Star Trek character, a prop or whatever, who is infringing on the copyright, the studio paying for it or the person being paid to recreate it?
Probably both, including the recreation of Captain Garth which seemly received a payment for his involvement.
Axanar released a financial statement claiming they paid quite a bit of money to have CBS/Paramount IP recreated for them, including a $38,000 paycheck to Peters. If that point is proven fact, I don't see judgement taking much over 30 seconds.
If nobody else used 3rd party services you wouldn't see the need to raise tens of thousands of dollars to create a production because it would just be a bunch of fans getting together, doing what they love for the sake of creating a fan film.
I'm not questioning the illegality of the act, I'm questioning your assertion that nobody else was doing it. There are plenty of other productions that have been paying for such services.
 
the movie itself has always been purported and advertised by everyone involved to be absolutely non-profit.
How do you define "profit"? I saw an old clip recently of Alec Peters talking to a group about CBS's rules and he said, as near as I can quote, "Their rules are simple. There's only one rule: you can't make a profit, meaning we can't charge people to watch it."
 
^^^ I know, right. Wording can be spun. Noun? Verb? Benefit from. Derive benefit from. Profit from. Indirectly profit from. Profit/loss. What does it profit a man. "We can't charge people to watch it." Could we host a donation-only viewing of it? Could we charge for a dinner only, advertising the free entertainment to be the film? Would people be interested, pay for, the dinner if the entertainment wasn't the film? How about a panel? Could we charge for a panel lasting 30 minutes using advertising that the 90 minute film will also be shown to those who paid for the panel? I would guess that is how legalese gets so long and intricate... to mitigate an ability to spin wording away from the intent and into supporting perceived loop holes. Where did we learn "we can't charge people to watch it" is the intended definition of the IP owner anyway? Where is this written?
 
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I'm not questioning the illegality of the act, I'm questioning your assertion that nobody else was doing it. There are plenty of other productions that have been paying for such services.
I believe i said "most people know better" Axanar is the 1st studio I know of that openly flaunted it.
 
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