CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar
- Thread starter Richard Baker
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Bazing!
Great point... and one that really illustrates how this "fan rebellion" nonsense is more than a few fans expressing their opinion but indeed is something more serious.
Of course, leave it to a Brit to look down their nose at a rebellion.
And also to be mad at the company issuing the guidelines when they could have actually been draconian.
Its not my impression that wondering "obsessively" about questions like "for 30 mins can we raise 100k in one campaign, or does it have to be two" is an attempt to find an illegal path. Its a question about convenience. It conforms with the overall intent of the restrictions either way.
Same with the matter of what repeating factors are banned. Is it characters/places/ships repeating across 30 minute barriers? Is it only a single story that is told in multiple 30 minute sets? Would a metastory such as Axanars beloved Four Year War count, even if each 30 minutes is a different group of people and different episode? I personally don't see clarity in the guidelines about this, it seems important, and reasonable to ask. Further, any such question would not be looking to do anything illegal, as it acknowledges the guideline and simply asks for clarification.
That's not to say that some folks could look for ways to defy the guidelines. But I haven't found the questions here recently to be of that sort.
The point is: make the dang film. Make a good faith effort to stay within the guidelines and if CBS decides to come sniffing 'round, you should be fine.
I get the sense that if one seeks clarity on a given point before proceeding with a project then you would contact JVC at CBS to get the answer.
STC, for example, is a series of self-contained stories with recurring characters. Can they be accommodated within the 15-30 minute installments? I'm sure that is being asked even now.
Candidly asking people to create new sets for every project is placing an unrealistic burden on creators. And when it comes to TOS does anyone seriously believe that CBS/P will revisit that era and in the exact same style as TOS of the 1960s?
STC, for example, is a series of self-contained stories with recurring characters. Can they be accommodated within the 15-30 minute installments? I'm sure that is being asked even now.
Candidly asking people to create new sets for every project is placing an unrealistic burden on creators. And when it comes to TOS does anyone seriously believe that CBS/P will revisit that era and in the exact same style as TOS of the 1960s?
I imagine CBS won't return too many of those calls/emails.
I Continue (see what I did there?) to hold the opinion that as long as you label and market it properly, CBS won't ping someone that has recurring characters and sets, and has some minor character development/callbacks to previous adventures.
To me, "The fan production must be less than 15 minutes for a single self-contained story, or no more than 2 segments, episodes or parts, not to exceed 30 minutes total, with no additional seasons, episodes, parts, sequels or remakes. " is absolutely crystal clear. It may not be what people wanted to see or read, but I don't see that it's ambiguous at all. Everyone's own exception is exceptional of course, but I don't see many being OK'd.
If that is indeed the case then that is going to be problematic for some and an issue that will beg to be revisited. Forcing people to reinvent their project every single time is unreasonable bullshit.
I'm unclear on the These Are The Voyages series of 3 books the defendant mentions in podcast #35. He 'seems' to be indicating volumes 1 & 2 were finished and mailed out before the date of the November 30, 2015 podcast #35. I'm reading him saying in the production's blog from October 30, 2014 that they are a series of three books detailing the making of Star Trek: The Original Series.
I have a couple of questions about this. The first one being do the owners of Star Trek require any licensing to write something like this, or is this something I could write myself and offer others under similar circumstances as the production?
My second question is has anyone here received one and what are they like?
I have a couple of questions about this. The first one being do the owners of Star Trek require any licensing to write something like this, or is this something I could write myself and offer others under similar circumstances as the production?
My second question is has anyone here received one and what are they like?
The Guidelines and the Podcast clarification lay it out:
$50K via Crowdfunding per 15 minutes and you can to a two part story IF you want. He also said they aren't mgoing to be looking to actually have anyone submit anything for approval (they will keep an eye on what people do and if gthey feel anyone stemps over the line they'll act.
^^^
What does it mean if you're producing something? The limits are set at $50K per 15 minutes. As long as you state in you KS or Indegogo campaign what it's for:
EG: "We're doing one campaign for 100K to produce a two part (15 minutes each) standalone story..."
OR
"We're want to do a two part (15 minutes each) story, and this campaign is to raise 50K for part one. If that's successful, we'll produce part one and start a second campaign for part two."
^^^
Under the Guidelines EITHER of the above situations is within them. They are Guidelines -- not concrete hard line contractual rules (CBS/Paramount reserve ALL THIER RIGHTS to act as they see fit and they will act if/when they feel it's appropriate. you have no rights implied or otherwise in the situation. C/P aren't going to 'approve' anything - if they feel you stepped over a line, they'll let you know.)
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But it isn't their ball, so they don't get to make the rules. CBS does.
But, per the interview, they don't want fan projects to be series. Full stop. From the interview:
I read that to mean, CBS and Paramount do series, fan films are meant to be one off.
I think there is a difference between episodic (where you are telling a story through out a season's worth of episodes ie the Temporal Cold War) and using the same characters throughout your productions "episodes" (ie every TOS episode ever but 1). What CBS doesn't want you to do is essentially make a series of episodes that add up to being feature length to tell your story. I believe you are more then welcome to use your reoccurring characters as long as the stories they are involved in are 1 offs.
I don't think C/P is inviting anyone to ask for approval. The idea is to give guidance about what's cricket and what isn't. While there are no distinctions in importance for the individual rules, I do believe the most important ones make it clear that the big Red Card offense is going to be trying to make money off the IP. That's not to say they WON'T come after anyone for breaking the other rules (they certainly can) and the guidelines do not supersede Copyright law which allows them to come after anyone, any time for any transgression, big or small. When push comes to shove, the law is what rules, although the guidelines give valuable hints as to where CP is drawing their line in the sand. Setting up a formal approval process (if that's what you're suggesting will happen...feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) is more trouble than it would be worth to them.
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There's nothing unreasonable about it, these guidelines are aimed at one off films, not people trying to recreate an entire episodic TV show - quite deliberately, I'd wager. Making a 15 minute one off film using someone else's IP without a licence to tell a short story = reasonable. Running a multi 50-minute series with internal continuity and evolving characters - that's something else entirely, and the purview of the rights holder.
I do not recommend those books, and that was even before the Axanar connection. They are flawed in too many ways to make them worthwhile reference books. @Harvey can detail this further. For more info on the author you could check out this twitter account.
They are unlicensed. If they were a serious threat to CBS I'm sure they could easily be shut down. Instead, they are self-published and I'm sure they don't sell in the numbers that would make them enough of an issue for the rights holders. It doesn't mean that's right, they're just insignificant.
Neil
lolling
So that's the guy in that picture that sometimes shows up in your posts! He's the porn film guy, right?
And these Star Trek books written by this same guy have flawed information, are actually blatantly unlicensed, 'and' associated with the true trek of this production?
Disturbing.
So, and maybe no one knows, how did these books get to be perks for the production?
No, wait, here it is:
“These Are Thee Voyages” Kickstarter
The campaign is being organized by the team behind Star Trek Axanar. A pledge of $40 gets you an autographed copy of the hardcover edition of Volume 3 (which is about the cost of the book plus shipping). There are lower pledge amounts which get you hardcover or e-book versions of the previous volumes and higher pledge amounts for a complete set of all 3 books, or collectible rewards, or even lunch or dinner with the author. More info on the campaign or to pledge at Kickstarter.com.
With added by TrekMovie:
***UPDATE***
Since this story’s publication last Friday, it has come to our attention that Marc Cushman has a monetary interest in the Jacob Brown Media Group. Subsequently, the project’s Kickstarter pitch was changed to reflect this new information
So, with a donation to the production of $40 the donor gets an autographed publicly & blatantly touted unlicensed Star Trek book. Or lower/higher donations for other versions of this publicly blatantly touted unlicensed Star Trek book, or even three publicly blatantly toutedly unlicensed Star Trek books with an even larger donation to the production.
To add to the not all that dis-similar avenue for the production to acquire donations from a company publicly selling an unlicensed consumable Star Trek product being advertised on the production's website which itself publicly stated a portion of that product's purchase price would be to donated the production.
And, as now publicly stated by a writer, the production solicited him to use a pseudonym to write an unlicensed Star Trek book for the production.
Demonstrating a marked propensity by the production toward disregard of laws pertaining to copyright completely aside from fan films.
And this These Are The Voyages book, or one of them, or the book series, is a Saturn Award Winner?
The production blurb on their production site regarding These Are The Voyages states it is "The only book on the making of Star Trek endorsed by G.Roddenberry, R. Justman, John D.F. Black, D.C. Fontana, and Leonard Nimoy" ?
And how did Mr. Roddenberry endorse even one of these books if Volume One was only published in 2013 and Mr. R passed away in 1991?
I'm thoroughly confused now.
lolling
Curioser and Curioser.
So that's the guy in that picture that sometimes shows up in your posts! He's the porn film guy, right?
And these Star Trek books written by this same guy have flawed information, are actually blatantly unlicensed, 'and' associated with the true trek of this production?
Disturbing.
So, and maybe no one knows, how did these books get to be perks for the production?
No, wait, here it is:
“These Are Thee Voyages” Kickstarter
The campaign is being organized by the team behind Star Trek Axanar. A pledge of $40 gets you an autographed copy of the hardcover edition of Volume 3 (which is about the cost of the book plus shipping). There are lower pledge amounts which get you hardcover or e-book versions of the previous volumes and higher pledge amounts for a complete set of all 3 books, or collectible rewards, or even lunch or dinner with the author. More info on the campaign or to pledge at Kickstarter.com.
With added by TrekMovie:
***UPDATE***
Since this story’s publication last Friday, it has come to our attention that Marc Cushman has a monetary interest in the Jacob Brown Media Group. Subsequently, the project’s Kickstarter pitch was changed to reflect this new information
So, with a donation to the production of $40 the donor gets an autographed publicly & blatantly touted unlicensed Star Trek book. Or lower/higher donations for other versions of this publicly blatantly touted unlicensed Star Trek book, or even three publicly blatantly toutedly unlicensed Star Trek books with an even larger donation to the production.
To add to the not all that dis-similar avenue for the production to acquire donations from a company publicly selling an unlicensed consumable Star Trek product being advertised on the production's website which itself publicly stated a portion of that product's purchase price would be to donated the production.
And, as now publicly stated by a writer, the production solicited him to use a pseudonym to write an unlicensed Star Trek book for the production.
Demonstrating a marked propensity by the production toward disregard of laws pertaining to copyright completely aside from fan films.
And this These Are The Voyages book, or one of them, or the book series, is a Saturn Award Winner?
The production blurb on their production site regarding These Are The Voyages states it is "The only book on the making of Star Trek endorsed by G.Roddenberry, R. Justman, John D.F. Black, D.C. Fontana, and Leonard Nimoy" ?
And how did Mr. Roddenberry endorse even one of these books if Volume One was only published in 2013 and Mr. R passed away in 1991?
I'm thoroughly confused now.
lolling
Curioser and Curioser.
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It would make sense that Alec would endorse these books. They're as self published as he is. And both try to make themselves appear bigger than they really are. Alec wants people to think he's a big time producer (or a lawyer), when it's clear that he's not. And Cushman is not a respected historian.
And who do they both have in common? Robert Meyer Burnett. He made the pitch video featuring Cushman for the last Kickstarter. I've discussed these books with Rob, who I feel was duped by Marc's passion, rather than any sort of authenticity.
Neil
And who do they both have in common? Robert Meyer Burnett. He made the pitch video featuring Cushman for the last Kickstarter. I've discussed these books with Rob, who I feel was duped by Marc's passion, rather than any sort of authenticity.
Neil
And I respectfully disagree with that interpretation. You're reading something into statement that isn't there.
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