CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar 2 - Electric Boogaloo-Fanboys gone WILD-too many hyphens

[F. King Daniel]

I'm just coming across this Axenar/lawsuit/fan fiction guidelines from 2015 and I'm stunned at how ridiculous they are - no more feature films? Limits of 2 episodes per series?? Is there a summary somewhere on what the reaction has been since then? I would expect a lot of ppl would boycott ST, paramount+, etc, until they revised the fan fiction guidelines. But maybe no one cares?

They were designed to stop people monetising their property like Axanar (and Renegades, to a lesser extent) were doing.

And it failed at that, because Axanar has continued to do so (albeit to a much lesser extent) until the present day.

To the best of my knowledge, they've come down on one fan-published book for using screenshots of episodes (and selling Star Trek books, which S&S have an exclusive license to do) since then and zero fan films.

 

[drt]

At the end of the day I think the intent was simply to clamp down on the mini-industry that certain fanfilm groups had become.

I concur. It really had become an arms race, seeing who could raise the most money. The guidelines certainly put a stop to groups spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and hiring ex-Trek actors, at which point it's probably not really a fan film anymore but an unauthorised production.

 

[F. King Daniel]

at which point it's probably not really a fan film anymore but an unauthorised production

Remember when Axanar was explicitly NOT a fanfilm but an "independent Star Trek feature"?

 

[drt]

Remember when Axanar was explicitly NOT a fanfilm but an "independent Star Trek feature"?

Yeah, I don’t know how you wouldn’t expect to be slapped down for that.

Even without Axanar and all of it excesses, CBS/Paramount was going to have do something eventually. They should have been more proactive and set up restrictive rules like Lucasfilm did before things got out of hand. The first of those New Voyages productions was delightfully low budget with cartoonishly cheesy computer effects, so they probably thought no action was necessary, but a few short years later the “fan films” had huge budgets and Trek veteran special effects guys.

We’re probably lucky that Peters went so overboard on IP theft that Paramount didn’t have to go after NV, Renegades or Continues, which probably would have made fans more angry.

 

[pgbka]

I'd have preferred that they limit a fan production to two 30 minute episodes per series so you could get a single full length episode like classic trek when viewed together but I see why they wouldn't want perceived competition from series like NV and STC either. As for feature length films, how many came out? I can only think of a couple over the past 20+ years of fan films ...

I was also thinking of a few but even a few is a big deal!
And I believe there were 2 more seasons of TOS? So a 2 episode limit ends that.
Not to mention not allowing Trek actors to appear in anything. There were plenty of those.

It's an extremely small portion of the fan base that creates these, or puts them out for public viewing. The fan films I've done with friends never made it to online; we just made it for fun.

It's not the ppl making it, it's the appreciation by viewers!

Finally, they have a right to protect their IP.

I agree they have a right to do it. They also had the right to file the lawsuit on Christmas, which is malicious. I have the right to cancel my paramount+ subscription and sign the change.org petition I found. It's the fans that saved ST from extinction.

Remember when Axanar was explicitly NOT a fanfilm but an "independent Star Trek feature"?

Independent ST feature = fan fiction in my mind. That's what independent means. But I'm not aware of any of the history/terminology/semantics of this.

Yeah, I don’t know how you wouldn’t expect to be slapped down for that.

Even without Axanar and all of it excesses, CBS/Paramount was going to have do something eventually. They should have been more proactive and set up restrictive rules like Lucasfilm did before things got out of hand. The first of those New Voyages productions was delightfully low budget with cartoonishly cheesy computer effects, so they probably thought no action was necessary, but a few short years later the “fan films” had huge budgets and Trek veteran special effects guys.

I looked up Lucasfilm rules and what I found was:
no public crowdfunding
no monetization
no protected footage, images, logos, or music
clearly represented as a fan film and clearly not affiliated with lucasfilm

Not sure if it is accurate, but if it is, compared to Paramount guidelines, it's basically anything goes! There would definitely be more ST fan fiction seasons, episodes, movies, replete with Trek actors, with those guidelines. Whatever bad actors there might have been is not a reason to make onerous guidelines for the industry.

If a $1 million fan fiction production threatens a $200 million official Paramount film, then maybe they are spending too much on their productions. They could work to license promising fan fiction productions if they want. Regardless, I'm sure it's overall net positive for Paramount to have more liberal guidelines. Roddenberry allowed fan fiction films but I'm not sure he ever endorsed or said anything specific about it?

 

[urbandefault]

Years after the Axanar debacle, people still argue for licensing fan films. Unbelievable.

Well, after taking a look around outside, maybe not so unbelievable. Incredible might be the word.

 

[David cgc]

I saw recently about some sort of start-up that was trying to do some kind of mass-licensing thing (kind of, it's mostly buzzwords, so it's hard to tell what, if anything, they're trying to do). Amazon tried to do something similar years ago.

 

[fireproof78]

I agree they have a right to do it. They also had the right to file the lawsuit on Christmas, which is malicious. I have the right to cancel my paramount+ subscription and sign the change.org petition I found. It's the fans that saved ST from extinction.

Fans do not get to trample upon IP rights. No matter their passion they do not own the franchise.

There is nothing malicious about it. Their property, end of story.

 

[Mytran]

I was also thinking of a few but even a few is a big deal!
And I believe there were 2 more seasons of TOS? So a 2 episode limit ends that.
Not to mention not allowing Trek actors to appear in anything. There were plenty of those.


It's not the ppl making it, it's the appreciation by viewers!


I agree they have a right to do it. They also had the right to file the lawsuit on Christmas, which is malicious. I have the right to cancel my paramount+ subscription and sign the change.org petition I found. It's the fans that saved ST from extinction.


Independent ST feature = fan fiction in my mind. That's what independent means. But I'm not aware of any of the history/terminology/semantics of this.



I looked up Lucasfilm rules and what I found was:
no public crowdfunding
no monetization
no protected footage, images, logos, or music
clearly represented as a fan film and clearly not affiliated with lucasfilm

Not sure if it is accurate, but if it is, compared to Paramount guidelines, it's basically anything goes! There would definitely be more ST fan fiction seasons, episodes, movies, replete with Trek actors, with those guidelines. Whatever bad actors there might have been is not a reason to make onerous guidelines for the industry.

If a $1 million fan fiction production threatens a $200 million official Paramount film, then maybe they are spending too much on their productions. They could work to license promising fan fiction productions if they want. Regardless, I'm sure it's overall net positive for Paramount to have more liberal guidelines. Roddenberry allowed fan fiction films but I'm not sure he ever endorsed or said anything specific about it?

These arguments weren't convincing in 2016 either...

 

[Sgt_G]

I don't know which is more fun: this Axanar topic here -or- the thread over on Board Game Geeks where someone is claiming that Star Fleet Battles is an illegal copyright-violating product.

 

[Sketcher]

Just don't monetize an IP that isn't yours? I don't know why that's difficult to understand.

As for Axanar. When/if it's finally dead and gone and everything of Peters' is shut down, I fear those that were against him will just find a new target because they can't stop now, even if their intentions in the beginning were out of good will. Reminds me of the 12th Doctor's speech to the Zygon resistance where he asked what happens when they win.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Just don't monetize an IP that isn't yours? I don't know why that's difficult to understand.

As for Axanar. When/if it's finally dead and gone and everything of Peters' is shut down, I fear those that were against him will just find a new target because they can't stop now, even if their intentions in the beginning were out of good will. Reminds me of the 12th Doctor's speech to the Zygon resistance where he asked what happens when they win.

One of, if not the best 12th Doctor speeches.

 

[Ion]

Hey everyone! Just popping up from my lurk to say hello (it’s been a while, hope everyone is well!) and ask a few questions, assuming anyone knows and is willing to answer:

• What happened to Carlos and AxaMonitor? I get the impression that there's still activity on TwitterX, but I don't have an account and can't see anything, and the web site looks stale. Is Carlos alright? Is he still reporting on this? He doesn't appear to have been 'round these parts in quite some time.
• What's the current status of the Peters v. Jenkins suit? Last I saw, Peters' lawyer appeared to have headed for the hills, and I think there was some kerfuffle about Peters shifting assets around to shelter them at one point or another...
• Whatever happened with the restraining order and the assault charge in Georgia?

I'd ask about the progress on the film, but...

On a side note, this thread and its predecessor can be a rather entertaining read through if you're bored enough (though I didn't get through much of the original thread... yet...). It's amazing how many little details I've forgotten about this whole debacle. It's just sad that so many of the images have vanished off the internet, which removes much of the context from the discussion in many cases.

And @Squiggy's Downfall videos. I miss those. Only the first one he did seems to have survived that I've found so far (though maybe I'm just not far enough into the thread)...

In any event, just looking for an update on the sordid details if one is available. It still amazes me that CBS/P Viacom whoever owns the damned copyrights now hasn't nuked him from orbit yet.

All that merchandising...

 

[Mytran]

Hey everyone! Just popping up from my lurk to say hello (it’s been a while, hope everyone is well!) and ask a few questions, assuming anyone knows and is willing to answer:

• What happened to Carlos and AxaMonitor? I get the impression that there's still activity on TwitterX, but I don't have an account and can't see anything, and the web site looks stale. Is Carlos alright? Is he still reporting on this? He doesn't appear to have been 'round these parts in quite some time.
• What's the current status of the Peters v. Jenkins suit? Last I saw, Peters' lawyer appeared to have headed for the hills, and I think there was some kerfuffle about Peters shifting assets around to shelter them at one point or another...
• Whatever happened with the restraining order and the assault charge in Georgia?

I'd ask about the progress on the film, but...

On a side note, this thread and its predecessor can be a rather entertaining read through if you're bored enough (though I didn't get through much of the original thread... yet...). It's amazing how many little details I've forgotten about this whole debacle. It's just sad that so many of the images have vanished off the internet, which removes much of the context from the discussion in many cases.

And @Squiggy's Downfall videos. I miss those. Only the first one he did seems to have survived that I've found so far (though maybe I'm just not far enough into the thread)...

In any event, just looking for an update on the sordid details if one is available. It still amazes me that CBS/P Viacom whoever owns the damned copyrights now hasn't nuked him from orbit yet.

All that merchandising...

Carlos started to dial back his involvement with Axanar a couple of years ago, probably because he had better things to do with his life. After Axanar settled the lawsuit with CBS it quickly became apparent that Alec Peters was going to continue to drag out the making of his films for a long as possible, since there were still people willing to give him money (an ever dwindling crowd). However, he is now distinctly small fry in terms of how much he can raise compared to before the lawsuit, which is probably why CBS haven't bothered to take action.

Alec continues to shift assets around, like he always has. The lawsuit with Jenkins is still ongoing, so time will tell how successful he's been in hiding what he owns.

Regarding the incident in Atlanta, the charges against Alec were dropped when they went to court. Alec never renewed the 12 month restraining order against Shawn O’Halloran either.
However, recently a FOI request led to the bodycam footage from the 2 security officers being released. Trekzone published them in full, as well having a discussion about some the choicer moments involved. Alec Peters does not come off looking very good.
https://trekzone.org/1701/2023090662542

 

[urbandefault]

Alec Peters does not come off looking very good.

That's the understatement of the millennium, applicable in any situation.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Axanar is now being produced by a legit cult leader.

No not Alec, an actual actual cult leader, Dave Lanyon. Probably Alec's hero.

Here's a Vice article about the goings-on in the Modern Mystery School.

 

[Coops]

Axanar is now being produced by a legit cult leader.

No not Alec, an actual actual cult leader, Dave Lanyon. Probably Alec's hero.

Here's a Vice article about the goings-on in the Modern Mystery School.

Sorry what pardon?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Sorry what pardon?

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[Ion]

Sincere thanks for taking the time to spell all that out, @Mytran. It strikes me that the thread has kinda wandered off into the weeds a little, and it's getting harder to see the current state of things. Having it summarized is great, so thanks!

Carlos started to dial back his involvement with Axanar a couple of years ago, probably because he had better things to do with his life.

Good for him, and I wish him well.

Bad for us. I miss his coverage. A while back (a year or so?) people were questioning the point of continuing AxaMonitor. This kinda highlights the service he was doing for the community.

Regarding the incident in Atlanta, the charges against Alec were dropped when they went to court. Alec never renewed the 12 month restraining order against Shawn O’Halloran either.

Bah. I was hoping for more there, but knew it was too much to ask for.

That's the understatement of the millennium, applicable in any situation.

The whole situation always struck me as rather third grade. Anyone have highlights on what the footage revealed? I can't bring myself to waste an hour watching that podcast; I'd rather watch today's ep of The Shuttlepod Show.

No not Alec, an actual actual cult leader, Dave Lanyon. Probably Alec's hero.

WTF?!

That is some seriously fucked up shit. I also note he has a "co-executive producer" title on Axanar's imdb, as opposed to just plain "producer".

I suppose it will be interesting to see if said cult leader can manage to actually... you know... make the movie(s)... It's getting up toward the end of 2023, and we still have nothing. Trying to figure out how people are so deluded as to still donate to this grift absolutely boggles my mind.

But seriously, a cult leader? Holy shitballs, batman! Just when we thought Peters couldn't stoop any lower...

Then again, birds of a feather and all that.

Is it just me, or is there still no director listed for Axanar? Is the cult leader going to take that over? Inquiring minds want to know...

 

[137th Gebirg]

Probably didn't come up in the interview.