CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar 2 - Electric Boogaloo-Fanboys gone WILD-too many hyphens

Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by jespah, May 10, 2018.

?

Do you enjoy pie?

  1. Yes, sweet, please

    19 vote(s)
    32.8%
  2. Yes, savory, please

    12 vote(s)
    20.7%
  3. Yes, any kind

    26 vote(s)
    44.8%
  4. No, I'm a heathen

    11 vote(s)
    19.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Well, if he's using the Axanar Blog or something to promote the coffee house, it is a little ethically questionable, but it's probably not a violation of the settlement unless they're actually selling Axanar coffee.
    Don't even get me started on the atmosphere for giving him free oxygen! ;)
     
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  2. dmac

    dmac Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think Alec missed his calling.
    Before I ever heard of Alec or Axanar I couldn't help myself when there was a listing on the OTC/pink sheets to get in on the next big box office movie and the "CEO" (aka show runner) would hype the stock without shame. Sometimes they made their movies then dissipated back into the shadows while the movie ended up on a bulk shelve in the local dollar store.
    Even worse than anything Alex could conger up was to take over a project that never got out of the can and promote it to the market as if it was in development, releasing small tidbits as if it was just happening. They may sell 5-7 million dollars of stock. Reverse split all the shareholders out of their stock holdings and go on to the next project. These were people that never had intent to do anything.
    Basically investing is entertainment in itself and I had an interest in the process of film making so it was also an education.
    When these social donating sites became popular I'm just sitting back waiting for the possible exploitation to happen because win or lose the donor gets a five dollar patch. I'm really surprised the exploitation hasn't been worse.
    If the Axanar deal went down on the OTC void of the Trek connection yet billed as the next best thing since Star Trek, Alec would have been running one of the better schemes.
     
  3. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Admiral Admiral

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    If I may ask who is the “You” in this situation?

    I think it’s patently unfair to lump a few unbalanced people together with a much larger group of individuals who offer justifiable criticism. I would hope that you grasp the difference, and don’t fall into the Alec created trap of seeing ALL critics as unhinged haters. I truly believe you know better.

    Time does not eliminate the central issue: unlike you and others like you Alec (on his own) has not contributed anything to the world of fan films and what he has contributed as a collaboration with others came at a significant cost.
    What role does he play in the fan film community that allows individuals who run conventions to include him (giving him space to maintain a reputation that he does not deserve) without ever answering a question or seeing their own reputation be tarnished? Will his misdeeds and incompetence somehow minimized because he has some silly people “opposing” him?

    I love what you bring to the table sir, and your films encapsulate what makes fan films great, I just hope you don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.
     
  4. dmac

    dmac Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Day of the dove
     
  5. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    People can and do get carried away about carpet bombing anything Alec touches, promotes, or even gets within proximity of but, really, can we blame them? Anyone who plays ball with an purported con-man is worth looking askance at...thrice, and many if us are not going to support people and groups who enable him or his 82 AU in diameter ego.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018 at 10:44 PM
  6. Jedman67

    Jedman67 Commodore Commodore

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    The controversy with the conventions was all about Carlos and a few others reaching out to the organizers and advising them of Alec's history - specifically, his embezzlement of the Axanar funds and his constant peddling of Axanar merchandise (stuff that was supposed to be Kickstarter and IGG perks) at these conventions, often against the rules.
    Specifically with the Honorverse convention, any mention of Alecs lawsuit or history was removed without discussion.
    And while its inappropriate to be unfairly critical of Alecs friends and associates, you should be aware that both Crystal and Dianna were heavily involved in the non-production of Axanar.
     
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  7. tharpdevenport

    tharpdevenport Admiral Admiral

    If selling coffee got him ,it would be a hilarious "Columbo" like ending:

    Peters: "A cup of coffee?"
     
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  8. CaptGrumpy

    CaptGrumpy Captain Captain

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  9. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

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    Oct 24, 2016
    Yes, because it creates a scenario where AP can wave away claims of his misbehavior by pointing at things like this and saying that his enemies will seize on anything to discredit him. Cry wolf too early and the villagers won't be here when you need them.
    That's well within their rights to freedom of speech, but their claims are based on filings for a lawsuit that never went to trial, and therefore the claims are not necessarily established facts under the law.

    Imagine if your project was subjected to a frivolous lawsuit, but you eventually settled because it was significantly cheaper than going to trial. Then, when you arrange a panel about your project at a con, the people hosting the convention post all the false claims from in the lawsuit filing as part of the description for your panel.

    Now you're going to say that this isn't the same case as with Axanar. Fair enough, but establishing this policy for Axanar sets a precedent that could potentially ensnare innocent actors as well. It puts conventions in the position of judging projects like Axanar rather than using objective, indisputable criteria and following easy to understand rules. Besides, conventions can't afford a reputation for being hostile to the very people their conventions depend on.
    Again, the case never went to trial. They settled. Any mention of CBS's claims could open the people hosting the convention up to a libel or slander lawsuit, because they were not proven in court. Are you willing to bet your convention on the idea that absolute everything CBS put in its filings is true? That CBS made no false claims of any kind at all, and there were no slip ups by the attorneys?

    I understand the animosity toward AP, but trying to make conventions the fan film police isn't the answer.
     
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  10. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Where did anyone say that anything about including information about the lawsuit in the information for the panel? It just seemed to me like they were trying to warn him who he was getting involved with, which seems perfectly reasonable to me. Yes a few people did take things to far, but the majority of what we saw in the blog wasn't bad at all.
     
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  11. Noname Given

    Noname Given Vice Admiral Admiral

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    All filings and documents in the lawsuit are a matter of PUBLIC RECORD. As long as whatever someone mentioned about Alec and the lawsuit against him was part of said record, NO - a libel/slander lawsuit (which you can file anytime on anyone for anything they say about you) would either be ultimately thrown out, or the defend not found liable (again it's a Civil suit, not a Criminal one.)

    Why? You can only prove/prevail in such a suit if someone says something false about you. Alec WAS sued. Depositions and filings were made. That fact hasn't changed and it all is a matter of public record.

    Also, remember as part of the public record Alec did in fact admit to many things (which could also be stated by others publicly.)

    What could not be outright said is - "He was found guilty/liable of misusing KS funds..."<-- That statement could be actionable in a libel/slander suit.
    BUT
    "There was a lot of evidence and statements under oath produced leading up to the point the lawsuit was settled that indicate Alec may have misused KS funds earmarked for Axanar for his own personal; gain; but he settled with CBS and the lawsuit dropped. Of course if Alec breaks the settlement agreement, the suit could be re-opened."

    Would NOT be considered libel or slander because again, it's a true statement of facts.

    Again, you can be sued for anything; but in a libel/slander suit, a Plaintiff cannot prevail IF what the other side said about him is factual, and evidence exists to that effect.
     
  12. Csalem

    Csalem Commodore Commodore

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  13. Jedman67

    Jedman67 Commodore Commodore

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    It did go to trial, with depositions, hearings and cross examinations. countless documents were filed and examined and put into evidence. Ultimately Peters chose to settle, but there's really nothing wrong with pointing out to prospective business associates that Alec Peters has "a history".
     
  14. Matthew Raymond

    Matthew Raymond Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    I was referring to this comment:
    But perhaps I misinterpreted what he said.
    I would agree that he's perfectly within his right to offer his advice. I wasn't implying otherwise. My statements were in regard to expectations of how the people running the various conventions should respond to his advice.
    Upon reflection, you are correct. As long as they make no statements of purported fact beyond the public record, they're safe. (I'll leave it to the lawyers as to whether or not a claim matching what's in the public record, but made in isolation of it, can be considered libel.)

    That said, criticizing your paying participants isn't the best business strategy for a convention, even if slander and libel are off the table.
     
  15. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018 at 6:18 PM
  16. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Admiral Admiral

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    Much like the Axanar project itself, interest has waned to the point of non-existence. In addition, were anyone to actually read the comic, they would struggle to wade through horrible dialog and panel after panel of people sitting and talking.
     
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  17. urbandefault

    urbandefault Commodore Commodore

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    Sickbay, dammit.
    Unfortunately, a lot of people think that's what real Trek is. :techman:
     
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  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Isn't that what "True Trek Fans" (TM pending) want? ;)
     
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  19. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Langley
    Yep. Sitting and talking. Like drones. For a half an hour. And then you win awards.:rolleyes:

    The hell of it is, if axalytes are really straying from the flock, a decent comic might be able to draw some of them back.

    Somebody's gotta learn how to write one first...
     
  20. Jedman67

    Jedman67 Commodore Commodore

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    When members of the Axamonitor facebook group posted questions for the organizers of the Honorverse Convention, along the lines of "are you aware that Alec Peters has been sued for copyright infringement, and under his direction roughly $1.5 million of donor funds were raised to make the Axanar movies, and that no movie has been made while all the donor funds are apparently gone?"
    Those comments were deleted without warning, and statements made along the lines of "don't troll us".
     
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