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Cardassians/ Damar and everyone around him

yeah, I think I remember that one. Then there was 'too many vortas!":rommie:

I enjoyed the story with Kira Nerys on Cardassia prime meeting the Cardassian resistance and inadvertently taking part in a favorite Cardassian pastime...

(if you guys have found a way to save most or all of that great website from undeserved oblivion, then I am very grateful to you:))
 
*g* Yes, thats exactly the website I was searching for.
The story with Glinn Quare (Transcending Folly) is really VERY good! I love the way the author describes Damars way down and then up again through the Glinns eyes. It reads very realistic and gives great insight.
I have that story saved, as well as the honorable drinking contest, the aftermath and binding the strings, which is also a really good one. Too many Vortas I found as well and then a two parts NC17 story (Admiring fools 1 and 2) from the same author, which is not so much my style, but it has some good, insideful scenes as well.
I don´t know the story with Kira taking part in a favourite cardassian pastime however, so if you have the story or others around the character of Damar I am always eager to read them.
Pittyfully I am not able yet to write PMs, need to do some more posting. So lets discuss more Damar and other Cardassians. *g* So what about the off-duty thing?

TerokNor
 
Those sound like some really cool fanfictions. Once you can PM, could you send them to me too?

For some help with getting enough posts to PM, may I direct you to this thread?
 
Of course, would be my pleassure to send them to you. :) Those really are stories that need reading.

*looks at the thread* Is that sort of writing a story with many people? I think my english might be to bad for participating, however thanks anyway. I will see to it, that I gain fastly the needed posts. Where it 25 or 50? I have with this one 17 now.

TerokNor

Edit: Oh, just saw its 28 posts, but also 14 days of being registered, till I am allowed PMs. Means I dont need to hurry with posting I guess, cause I still would need to sit out my days.
 
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Yay, thanks too! :D Just read around a bit on the page. There are some stories on there I haven´t encounterd before. Would love to read them now, but am too late already, like always. Fanfiction can be rather distracting. ;)

TerokNor
 
There's always later! ;)

Just make sure you have PLENTY of time before you start reading "An Honorable Contest." You won't be able to stop until you hit the end!
 
I'm just re-reading the excellent essay on 'the three faces of Cardassia'. It really gives you food for thought, what are the dangers of representing a society though the actions of a tiny sample and can a man truly redeem himself?

Plus there is an examination about the necessity of Damar's dark side. After all, we all know just how ruthless the Cardassians can be...
 
Love that page. I am all absorbed in it. *g* I knew "A honorable contest" already, but you are right, once started you have to finish.
All that nice articles however I did not know and I find them great. Sometimes a bit repeatious (is that a word?), but still, good analyses. Guess the author must have been a student of either social work, sociology or psychology or some combination of it, cause shes really good at analysing and also at writing in the fanfiction about Damars problem with Kanar.

Yesterday late eve I started on Two many Vortas and also with that story I just had to read on and on, cause I wanted to know how it goes on. That made my night quite short. ;)
How you liked that story?

TerokNor
 
I'm not sure if I ever read "Too Many Vortas"...I tend to stay away from most of the really graphic stuff.
 
Oh, but than you really should read it. Its not too graphic, if with graphic you mean detailed written sex scenes and such. Mostly it shows an interesting alternative of the rebellion and (a bit like the story with Glinn Quare) Damars drinking problem. She shows very well what motives drives him to drink and what the drinking does to his body and soul and how he struggles to free himself of the addiction.
It has a few "privat scenes" with Damar and women, but its still in the borders of bearable.
It has beautiful interaction with Damar and Garak, NO Slash, which is a relief.
Even I have to say that the one slash story with Garak and Damar is well written and has interessting parts, if you jump over the VERY graphic scenes, that I also don´t like.

By the way I finally managed to get a used copy for a decent prize of "A Stich in time". :D Read half it while in the train and will read some more of it while tomorrow in the train again. Its certainly interessting. You think that kind of school with how the hierachy worked there was only normal for elite schools or for all schools? And was that supposed to be especially a school for obsidian order agents to be or also for military and such?

And I just wondered about why people, why I, actually like Cardassians. Is it the complexity, that cool make-up? Hmm...I mean I have often read on other pages, and the author of the Hero of cardassia page also writes it in one of her essays, that the Cardassians, when compared to the real world, are written somewhat to repesent Germany during WW2, the most darkest episode in that countries history. I felt always saddend and angered and ashamed by that time, even one of course could never know, how oneself would have been, when growing up in that time, living in that situation society was in, feeling desparate, hopeless, getting influenced and manipulated by Hitler and others.
I am for example very compassionate with a strong feeling for fairness, but with the right manipulation to the right time I think (nearly?) everybody could be turned into a blind follower and murderer. Of course here it depends how much of our temperaments lies in the genes and how much comes from being socialized and molded to fit in the society. Would I have followed Hitler or would I have been one who would have hidden the people, he wanted dead? Who knows. Well it also depends what experiences you had before. If the own personality is secure and the morales build up theres a lesser chance to get influenced in a bad way. By the way there is this interessting study about youngsters from the Neonazi scenes and it turned out that none of them experienced a secure bonding in their childhood, while children who experiences that (feeling secure, loved and valued) are more unlikely to become Nazis.
However, before loosing my point...Cardassians.... I liked Cardassians from the very beginning of DS9 and the character of Damar I found fascinating from the first time he appeard as well, also when he was so thuggish and before I ever knew, that the authors would turn him into a hero in the end. So why did I pick that race and that character to be my favourites and not ..the Federation or so?
Why did you choose the Cardassians to be your favourite race in the Star Trek Universe? And why did you pick the character you liked most?

TerokNor
 
I apologize if this is a stupid question, TN, but are you from Germany? If so, am I to assume you are younger than 70 or 80 years old? If that's the case, then you had NO control over what happened in your country's past. None whatsoever. What I think should be more important is how you feel about the country you are making NOW.

Anyway, back on subject.

The thing I see about the Cardassians that fascinates me is that we DO see the rebels and the dissidents--we get a complexity in them that despite what their government would like to think, is really pretty unprecedented for a Trek race. We see that regardless of the stereotype, regardless of their iron-fisted government, that a surprising number of people don't go along with what their government tells them. Some are even truly noble, like Tekeny Ghemor.

I identify with the Cardassians for MANY reasons, far more than Trek humanity. They are very, very flawed, of course...but the difference is that their flaws are in the open, acknowledged, and there's an actual chance after "What You Leave Behind" that they might be able to change. The potential in them to become something better is something that I identify...their loyalty, love of family, and tradition could become very positive if they were willing to change (a person like Tekeny Ghemor exemplifies this). Trek humanity, on the other hand, I cannot identify with, and sometimes they even scare me. The Cardassians seem much more REAL.
 
The thing I see about the Cardassians that fascinates me is that we DO see the rebels and the dissidents--we get a complexity in them that despite what their government would like to think, is really pretty unprecedented for a Trek race. We see that regardless of the stereotype, regardless of their iron-fisted government, that a surprising number of people don't go along with what their government tells them.
We saw a Romulan dissident movement in TNG. But the Romulans were that never really that well developed, although they showed promise.

Plus, their post-TOS makeup sucks. ;)
 
Hm...I'm not as bothered by the makeup as I am the poor development.

I actually have a fan explanation for the ridges...

At least in my own fanon, the Romulans tweaked their own genetic code about the time they arrived on Romulus. You'll notice that Romulan stature and build is quite different than Vulcans--shorter, not so thin--which is appropriate considering they are on a world where they have more need to keep warm than a Vulcan would have. I think they deliberately engineered themselves to be shorter and have a bit more body fat for insulation...but I think that in order to do that to themselves, they drew genetic material from a subspecies on Vulcan that inhabited the polar area...maybe not even one that was currently living, but at that level of technology, there's no reason they wouldn't have the genome available. And said subspecies had the ridges, so that was a side effect of their genetic tinkering.
 
It's not just the ridges... it's the whole look, their makeup on TNG/DS9/VOY looked very artificial and ugly, more like wax figures than living beings.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Tomalak.jpg
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Parem.jpg
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:N%27Vek.jpg
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Vreenak2374.jpg
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Cretak.jpg
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Cretak,_Inter_arma_enim_silent_leges.jpg
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Telek_R'Mor

Though it got better in ENT. (But I don't know why they went to such lengths to explain the Klingon makeup change between TOS and TMP, and then ignored the same issue when it came to Romulans.)

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Talok.jpg
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Nijil.jpg
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Valdore
 
Oh I did not want to make it sound as if I´d carry the guild of my ancestors on my shoulders.
But history is within us, we are part of it, it forms our societies, our identities and has long arms reaching into the future.
I think thats what also fascinates me about the Cardassians. The authors gave them quite a lot of history and the history and its changes, up and downs are so visibel in the individuels. I find it very interessting how the personalities are growing from innocent baby into arrogant racist. What power the staate has over those Star Trek beings. It does remind me of that dark Chapter of German history, but also of todays world in certain areas, like influencing a child to become a suicide terrorist.
The Cardassians are written as intelligent beings, polite, cultured, eloquent....but captured within a society that only some can find the strengh to brake free from, while the rest runs along or plays an active role in maintaining the society.
Its so... well..so like us. Yes you are right, they seem more real and familiar. We all could influenced, especially in a young age, to be "monsters" or "angels", speaking in black and white, I know its more complex. That leads to all those interessting questions you find in philosophie, like we free we really are and such.
Also I have to say I enjoy troubled characters, the psychology behind it. Its as complex as society and deeply inwinded. Of course when the character than finds the strengh to overcome weaknesses, thats the bonbon in the end, because it shows hope and development in individuels. And as individuels are the small worlds that construct the big world, it shows hope for everything in general.
And on a more superficial note...I also like the grey skin, especially with bright eyes and those scales and ridges. *g*

TerokNor
 
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