For JJ's new film, I kept hearing Matt Damon's name thrown around very early on for Kirk....
Captain Kirk's Age
- Thread starter CuttingEdge100
- Start date
For JJ's new film, I kept hearing Matt Damon's name thrown around very early on for Kirk....
A couple of random comments:
That doesn't mean Sulu first met Kirk two years before "Deadly Years", though. The two might have met briefly a decade or two prior, but not served together on the same assignment until the TOS years.
In "The Menagerie", Kirk does claim that Pike handed the ship directly over to him.
Then again, Kirk in that episode suggests he first met Pike when the man was promoted to Fleet Captain, which sets some limitations to what STXI should do with the subject. That is, unless the movie deliberately changes the events.
It might be noted that Kirk's friends and enemies had listened to Kirk confuse 4 for 2 several times (when he misremembered the planet's designation), and had probably already ceased to bother with correcting him. So when he said 34 instead of 32...
Or,
3) Kirk graduated at 23-24 or so, gained Ensign rank, and went to serve on the Republic under Captain Nevahurdovim for a few months, as part of his continuing duties as an Academy instructor. That is, he hadn't left the Academy yet despite doing some starshipboard service, so Garrovick wasn't his captain yet.
Indeed. Hell, Kirk and Mitchell could have met practically at the latter's birth, and the "15 years of knowing" could consist of those years that the two had spent more or less together, and would omit those years that they had later spent apart. So this little datum doesn't exactly limit storytelling...
Timo Saloniemi
That doesn't mean Sulu first met Kirk two years before "Deadly Years", though. The two might have met briefly a decade or two prior, but not served together on the same assignment until the TOS years.
In "The Menagerie", Kirk does claim that Pike handed the ship directly over to him.
Then again, Kirk in that episode suggests he first met Pike when the man was promoted to Fleet Captain, which sets some limitations to what STXI should do with the subject. That is, unless the movie deliberately changes the events.
It might be noted that Kirk's friends and enemies had listened to Kirk confuse 4 for 2 several times (when he misremembered the planet's designation), and had probably already ceased to bother with correcting him. So when he said 34 instead of 32...
Or,
3) Kirk graduated at 23-24 or so, gained Ensign rank, and went to serve on the Republic under Captain Nevahurdovim for a few months, as part of his continuing duties as an Academy instructor. That is, he hadn't left the Academy yet despite doing some starshipboard service, so Garrovick wasn't his captain yet.
Indeed. Hell, Kirk and Mitchell could have met practically at the latter's birth, and the "15 years of knowing" could consist of those years that the two had spent more or less together, and would omit those years that they had later spent apart. So this little datum doesn't exactly limit storytelling...
Timo Saloniemi
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TWOK. Carol Marcus
Gah...when was that mentioned? I distinctly remember hearing it but I can't remember in what episode and it's driving me crazy!
I don't think there's anything, on screen or off, to suggest that Kirk set any kind of record. The closest I know of is the Writer's Guide notation that Kirk is the youngest captain in the fleet, not the youngest ever.
TMoST, pg. 216, says youngest ever. It also describes him as being about 34, jibbing with the second season reference, and having commanded the Enterprise for more than four years. That'd make him 30 or even 29 when he took command. Of course, only the 34 for his age made it on screen, so YMMV.
I don't know whether anyone (D.C. Fontana?) was really story-editing Kirk's lines all that carefully in "The Deadly Years" (and/or adhering to any series-bible reference cited in Making of Star Trek) when he protests "I'm thirty-four... I'm thirty-four years old!" But I still think it should be taken as the truth; Kirk wouldn't forget his age as readily as he'd forget which planet of Gamma Hydra they're orbiting.
As far as I know, Kirk is the only regular Trek character ever to state his or her age (or to have it stated by another crew member), and of course Wrath of Khan is overtly 15 years later, making Kirk 49 in TWOK. As a guess, Kirk was 25 when David was born, and he meets David in TWOK as a 24-year-old hotshot with a doctorate and/or M.D.
[Another oddity: Steve Ihnat was only 34 (and looked young, despite his character's graying hair) when he played former Fleet Captain Garth. Nor do I think he shape-changed himself to look younger for the sake of vanity; Kirk would have been suspicious if Garth were really supposed to be middle-aged. How young, then, would Garth have been as Fleet Captain?]
As far as I know, Kirk is the only regular Trek character ever to state his or her age (or to have it stated by another crew member), and of course Wrath of Khan is overtly 15 years later, making Kirk 49 in TWOK. As a guess, Kirk was 25 when David was born, and he meets David in TWOK as a 24-year-old hotshot with a doctorate and/or M.D.
[Another oddity: Steve Ihnat was only 34 (and looked young, despite his character's graying hair) when he played former Fleet Captain Garth. Nor do I think he shape-changed himself to look younger for the sake of vanity; Kirk would have been suspicious if Garth were really supposed to be middle-aged. How young, then, would Garth have been as Fleet Captain?]
It could be argued that Garth would rejuvenate himself. And it could be argued that this was an option for any 23rd century citizen vain enough, requiring nothing more than what would be standard medical or chemical intervention at the time. Perhaps Kirk would even think that catering for the patients' vanity would be part of the healing process at Elba II.
It could also be argued that Fleet Captain is the very same thing as Captain, which is why Garth finds Kirk such a near-equal. Certainly it should be noted that Garth is never called "Fleet Captain" in the episode, not once. Instead, he is twice called "Starship Fleet Captain", which could simply mean that he is Captain in the starship fleet rather than in the garbage scow fleet. After all, the clear intention of both those lines is to remind Garth of his prestigious and responsible position, not to flatter him with mentioning his rank. (He prefers "Lord!" anyway...)
Timo Saloniemi
Well, that would be the obvious arithmetric logic. However, Memory Alpha continues to insist without obvious reason that TWOK takes place in 2285 and thus claims that we witness his 52 birthday (yea - fat chance that anyone would round 18 years to 15).
The idea behind that is probably that the Romulan ale is said to be from 2283 and needs a time to ferment. But then again, what do we know about Romulan years?
However, the best solution of how to include that bit is to place the events into 2283 with McCoy making one of his little jokes. 16 years may indeed be rounded to 15 and the beauty of this is that we witness Kirk's 50th birthday - certainly more reason for Kirk's somber mood and the effort by his friends to chear him up.
I know this is no new idea; I remember having read that proposition quite soon after the movie came out in "Best of Trek", IIRC. But to me it remains the best and one that I am surprised has not been more widely accepted.
After all, to be honest, celebrating one's 49th birthday is not really much of an event - I have done so three weeks ago!
OTOH, Kirk has every right to be gloomy at his 52nd birthday, too. And it would be a bit of a coincidence that his Peter Pan moment would come at exactly his 50th birthday. That is, it's no coincidence that he goes starhopping after a long dormancy at his birthday - the cruise is a birthday celebration, obviously. And of course part of the events start rolling due to this celebration. But that it would be a half-century birthday specifically when Khan breaks out of confinement is a coincidence, and it would be nicer to do without such coincidences.
Put in other words, I see only unwelcome ugliness, not "beauty", in the idea that this was a "special" birthday for Kirk.
Onscreen material certainly gives us a direct reason to think that the movie takes place multiple years after 2283, while giving no such reason to think that Kirk is 50. And 17 years could still well count as 15, so Khan marooned/Khan discovered would work fine with 2268/2285 or 2267/2284 pairings.
Timo Saloniemi
Put in other words, I see only unwelcome ugliness, not "beauty", in the idea that this was a "special" birthday for Kirk.
Onscreen material certainly gives us a direct reason to think that the movie takes place multiple years after 2283, while giving no such reason to think that Kirk is 50. And 17 years could still well count as 15, so Khan marooned/Khan discovered would work fine with 2268/2285 or 2267/2284 pairings.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo,
When did it say Kirk was 23 or 24 when he graduated the Academy -- typically you'd be around 21 or 22...
When did it say Kirk was 23 or 24 when he graduated the Academy -- typically you'd be around 21 or 22...
I saw this, and I just had to respond.
(Sorry, I'm an historian).Here's the REAL Captain Kirk......
During the Barbary Wars and our conflict with Tripoli, Tripoli held over 300 Americans hostage in demand for tribute from the newly formed United States.
Starting with that war, arose the youngest naval captain in American history, Stephen Decatur who became a captain at the age of 25. As a Lieutenant during the Barbary Wars (1801-1805) and the birth of the American navy, he once commanded the first American ship with name U.S.S. Enterprise. The U.S.S. Enterprise, once under the command of Andrew Sterret, became the first American vessel to tangle with a Barbary Pirates and the vessel "Tripoli." The Enterprise, handily beat the pirates and sent the "Tripoli" back to the ruler of Tripoli as a warning that Americans had arrived to free the American hostages.
During a naval bombardment of that harbor under the command of Commodore Edward Preble, Stephen Decatur and his brother James Decatur were given command of two gunboats and told to sail out into the harbor and engage enemy ships blockaded there.
During the battle, James' and his crew pulled up alongside a Muslim ship (the Barbary Pirates were Muslim pirates in the Mediterranean) which had struck it's colors in surrender. When James' ship pulled up alongside the side ship to board, the Tripolitan captain rehoisted his colors and shot James in the head and injured several crew members befor. James' crew could retreat.
Following their retreat, James' crew flagged down Stephen Decatur and showed Stephen his brother's body. Stephen, enraged by what happened, transfered the wounded to his gunboat and took James' crew to track down the Tripolitan crew and captain who killed his brother.
The Americans found it at stormed the ship and were outnumbered two to one. During the battle, Decatur engaged the Tripolitan captain but was injured when his boarding pike broke. The Tripolitan captain, much larger than Decatur, (who wasn't a big guy but courageous as hell), overpowered the wounded Decatur.
At the same instant that Decatur was on the ground, a Tripolitan crew member rushed up to deliver Decatur a killing blow with his scimitar. Seeing this, one of Decatur's crewmembers, who had been injured in the battle, took the blow and saved Decatur's life. The Tripolitan captain, lost his attention after witnessing this event, didn't see Decatur calmly pull out his boarding pistol and Decatur shot him in the head. The American's outnumbered, took the ship.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Decatur_algerine.jpg
http://www.temple.edu/history/UZ/urwin/images/decatur_tripoli_4aug1804_001.JPG
When Decatur returned to the Commodore, the Commodore asked Decatur how many ships he had managed to engage. Hearing Decatur's reply, the Commodore was enraged. According to accounts, Decatur almost killed the Commodore right there. Later on, when Commodore Preble heard about what had happened to James Decatur, he apologized to Stephen for his harsh words.
But it doesn't end there. In the same conflict, Stephen Decatur commanded the U.S.S. Intrepid and during an incredible night raid, Decatur and handful of sailors sailed into Tripoli's harbor and destroyed the U.S.S. Philadelphia which had been captured early in the war and whose 300 sailors were now prisoners of Tripoli's leader Yussif Karamanli. Prior to burning the Philadelphia in the Tripolitan harbor, Decatur had his men load the Philadelphia's cannons which fired at Tripoli as the fire which consumed the Philadelphia touched them off.
British Admiral Horatio Nelson himself called Decatur's action "the most bold and daring act of the age."
Stephen Decatur, then 33, also fought in the War of 1812 as the commanding officer of the U.S.S. United States. The American navy, which was small in comparsion to the British Navy, actually upset the British Admiralty several times after American sailors bested Britain's best in several naval battles. Stephen Decatur himself, in command of the U.S.S. United States bested the HMS Macedonian and took it as prize for the American navy.
Later on, in 1815, Decatur, now a Commodore, lead another American Naval Squadron to deal with renewed threats from the Barbary Coast which emmanated from Algiers. Within 48 hours of his arrival, Decatur had secured a lasting peace for the United States with the Barbary regencies.
Decatur, died in 1820 after fighting an honor duel against American Commodore James Barron.
Anyways, when I saw the stuff about Kirk's youthful age, it just reminded of Decatur. Both were skilled captains, brash youths, served on the U.S.S. Enterprise, and won fame for their boldness and daring. If any of you are curious Amazon.com "Stephen Decatur: A Life Most Bold and Daring" by Spencer Tucker. I think you'll enjoy it.
S
suneel
Guest
In the film Star Trek Generations, Kirk was lost and presumed dead when the USS Enterprise-B was damaged by The Nexus, which he entered. In this alternate existence, he was persuaded by Jean-Luc Picard from the year 2371 to return to Veridian III and stop Tolian Soran from sacrificing 230 million lives in order for him to re-enter the Nexus. During the climax, Kirk was able to retrieve and de-activate a cloaking control device from a damaged construction span, enabling Picard to sabotage Soran's plans. However, the span collapsed, causing Kirk to fall. Picard managed to get to Kirk as he lay dying underneath the wreckage, and subsequently buried his predecessor on the plateau.
"Generations" conflicts with the TNG episode "Relics," where it is seemingly implied that Kirk was alive when the Scotty character became trapped in a transporter buffer until the TNG timeframe. However, according to the Official Star Trek Web Site, StarTrek.com,[7] the line uttered by Scotty just after his rematerialization, the source of the story line's conflict, where he mentions Kirk by name, is attributed to his being disoriented.
In the original script of Generations, Soran killed Kirk by shooting him in the back. This ending was filmed but later changed after negative reactions from test audiences.[8]
In books written by William Shatner, beginning with Star Trek: The Return, Kirk is returned to life by the Romulans and the Borg, and goes on to have further adventures.
"Generations" conflicts with the TNG episode "Relics," where it is seemingly implied that Kirk was alive when the Scotty character became trapped in a transporter buffer until the TNG timeframe. However, according to the Official Star Trek Web Site, StarTrek.com,[7] the line uttered by Scotty just after his rematerialization, the source of the story line's conflict, where he mentions Kirk by name, is attributed to his being disoriented.
In the original script of Generations, Soran killed Kirk by shooting him in the back. This ending was filmed but later changed after negative reactions from test audiences.[8]
In books written by William Shatner, beginning with Star Trek: The Return, Kirk is returned to life by the Romulans and the Borg, and goes on to have further adventures.
I remember a book that had a compilation of stories regarding the U.S.S. Enterprise from a few years ago and one of the stories actually had an old fashioned maritime story in it. I never read it, but I thought that history proved to be wilder than fiction and something that many of you might have enjoyed.
I put TWO links in there in case anyone was curious and this is how you respond? Wow.
I just joined this board and I only have a handful of posts and this is the reception I get. Incredible.
How very evolved of you and here I thought I was actually going to join a community that enjoyed some discussion even if at times is isn't purely Trek.
Guess I was wrong.
JTK was always considered the youngest Captain in the history of Starfleet.
He saved most of the crew 18 years earlier and rose up the ranks quickly
I wouldn't be discouraged by one response made by a poster who is, for some reason, stuck in all bold.
I liked your post and read it in its entirety.
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