That's because training and experience are two different things?
Captain Archer was the Best Captain
- Thread starter NextGen123
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That's because training and experience are two different things?
I was trying to think of a nicer way to put this, but just can't:
There's a difference between being inexperienced and being inept.
By Season 4 he shows some promise, but that is after two years of frakking things up and a year spent on a vendetta. He may be trained for a variety of things, but doesn't show any great skill at anything above flying and using his face as a punching bag.
Give me Sisko or Picard any day.
@ KingDaniel: May I refer you to post No. 4? You seem to have picked up the wrong quote... 
Oops! Sorry, JiNX-01.
*slinks away*
*slinks away*
That's not true. In Minefield, Archer talks about a CO who had a different philosophy ("they're your crew, not your friends") than he did as he explained to Reed how he was trying to develop his command style. Clearly there's more to Archer's backstory than what we saw in First Flight.
I don't recall there being any statement one way or the other on this point.
I agree with HR; Archer was (ideally) meant to be inexperienced, representing humans entering the wider galaxy with our usual naive bravado. He was inconsistently written. But I think the charm of the character was his ability to creatively work through problems. He didn't have the backup or training or even the policies of Kirk, etc., so he just used whatever was in his toolbox and figured it out as he went along. Which made his evolution into the guy who lays the foundation for the Federation so interesting and satisfying to me. He literally goes from distrusting and disliking Vulcans (Broken Bow) to being the only person BOTH Vulcans and Andorians will trust to mediate peace talks (Cease Fire) to the cord that binds Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellerites, all of whom loathe each other, together (United).
He saved the world.
He didn't lose a crewmember until well into the Xindi mission (three years in).
He is the only Enterprise captain whose ship wasn't destroyed.
His dedication and compassion made the Organians change their minds and rethink their test.
Of all of the captains, Archer is my favorite, precisely because he is flawed and human and capable of growth.
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You don't have to slink away. I've had issues trying to sort out multiple quotes myself.
I liked his developing mutual respect with Soval. That was very well done.
This!
...in the Real Universe.
MU Archer had much to be desired, captain-wise. Lots of ambition, a little smarts, but not enough cunning to pull it off....in the Real Universe.
When Enterprise was destroyed in the MU, Forrest was captain, not Archer....in the Real Universe.
Forrest was hot.
^Cue obvious 'I'd serve under her' remark.
Archer had the potential to be a great captain (I'm talking in dramatic terms here, what we as the audience like, as opposed to what the in-universe character does). Unlike some, I even like Scott Bakula's portrayal. But IMHO the character was too inconsistently written. Getting a handle on the guy was like trying to nail jelly to the wall.
Archer had the potential to be a great captain (I'm talking in dramatic terms here, what we as the audience like, as opposed to what the in-universe character does). Unlike some, I even like Scott Bakula's portrayal. But IMHO the character was too inconsistently written. Getting a handle on the guy was like trying to nail jelly to the wall.
I side in negative on the OP's assertion. To me he was the weakest captain. For a lot of the reasons all ready discussed by others. I think the writers just didn't know what to do with his character and Bakula gave such an uncomfortable performance that Archer never really grew on me. I did start to like him in Season 3, when his character took a darker turn however.
Though by Season 4, he was back to largely being a cipher, as plot took the place of character development. He got some much needed and long delayed emotional release and romance in the "Home" episode, and a childhood mentor and friend in "Daedalus", but the one big arc that could've been great for his character, the Vulcan Reformation, seemed to have little impact on him.
I thought it could've been a great character transformation moment for him, where he more dramatically sheds his Vulcan bias and afteward takes up learning more about Vulcans and respecting their opinions. Also, having Sarek in his head could've added more grativas to the character and changed how Vulcans perceived him, if they believed that he did carry the man's katra. But the series didn't really focus on the aftermath much and Archer didn't seem all that changed by the experience.
Though by Season 4, he was back to largely being a cipher, as plot took the place of character development. He got some much needed and long delayed emotional release and romance in the "Home" episode, and a childhood mentor and friend in "Daedalus", but the one big arc that could've been great for his character, the Vulcan Reformation, seemed to have little impact on him.
I thought it could've been a great character transformation moment for him, where he more dramatically sheds his Vulcan bias and afteward takes up learning more about Vulcans and respecting their opinions. Also, having Sarek in his head could've added more grativas to the character and changed how Vulcans perceived him, if they believed that he did carry the man's katra. But the series didn't really focus on the aftermath much and Archer didn't seem all that changed by the experience.
Two of the most confused Vulcan names: Sarek and Surak.
It would have been a bold and interesting move to dramatically change Archer forever as an effect of carrying Surak's katra. That said though carrying Spock's katra didn't seem to do a damn thing for McCoy so I guess we have our answer there: katra carrying doesn't change you.
True, however I have to wonder if carrying Spock's katra didn't deepen the bonds between him and McCoy. Carrying Sarek's katra seemed to have an impact on Picard at least "Unification". With Archer I think it would've been a more powerful statement for him based on where he started with his views on Vulcans to where he could've ended up. I wish they had went in a B5 Sinclair arc with him to some extent, where maybe he winds up as the Earth/Fed. ambassador to Vulcan, and as a run up to that, his katra experience makes him more interested in Vulcan history, culture, etc. I think it could've been a great step forward in the maturation of Archer's character.
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