Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors, etc

[Reverend]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

There was an allusion to Peggy and Sharon's relationship in CA:TWS. After Steve left the Smithsonian, he then visited Peggy at the hospital, after which he stopped by the VA to see Sam. The next we see Steve, he is arriving home that night where he encounters Sharon in the hallway. She is talking on the phone with someone saying, "So sweet. That is so nice." Then she sees Steve and she tells the person she's talking to that she's gotta go. She then says to Steve, "My aunt. She's kind of an insomniac." I always took that to mean that to mean that she was on the phone with her Great-Aunt Peggy (as that's the relationship in the comics) talking aboutSteve's visit earlier in the day.

Yeah that occurred to me too, but it does make a huge amount of objective sense. For one thing, why would Fury assign a relative of Peggy Carter (because there's no way he didn't know) as Steve's protection detail? Even if she requested the assignment (which I can see happening) it seems a little unprofessional, especially given Peggy's condition.

Secondly, if she's that close with her great Aunt, why aren't there pictures of her in Peggy's room? We know there isn't because Steve would have seen it and therefore recognised her already. Old people love to surround themselves with pictures of their relatives, especially the ones they're closest to.

I'm not saying it's beyond the bounds of possibility, indeed I'm pretty well convinced that was the intent of the scene, but it does raise some problems.

Not least of which being the "ick" factor if they're going ahead with the romance thread. From Agent 13's perspective, that's the man who was love of her great aunt's life and in some alternate timeline somewhere could very possibly be her great-uncle.
From Steve's perspective...well that's Peggy's flesh and blood. I don't think it needs to be spelled out why he should be utterly repulsed by the very idea. Even if they do some sneaky side-stepping and have be be adopted or only related via an earlier marriage and not actually a blood relation, it'd still feel...wrong.

That said, if they're not doing the romance thing then fine, problem solved. Honestly, I'd much rather these be two mutually exclusive possibilities.

 

[Skywalker]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

IIRC she wasn't even credited as Sharon Carter in TWD, just Kate (presumable just her cover name) / Agent 13.

Black Widow did tell Cap that her name was Sharon, though. So her first name's established, but they avoided the Carter connection for now.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

That's strange for some odd reason I thought Rogers was younger than Peggy, but he was born in 1918.

Yeah, I would have thought so, too, if only a little bit. But FWIW, he's 1 year older than her IRL. Guess it's because skinny Steve came off as still being something of a kid.

There was an allusion to Peggy and Sharon's relationship in CA:TWS. After Steve left the Smithsonian, he then visited Peggy at the hospital, after which he stopped by the VA to see Sam. The next we see Steve, he is arriving home that night where he encounters Sharon in the hallway. She is talking on the phone with someone saying, "So sweet. That is so nice." Then she sees Steve and she tells the person she's talking to that she's gotta go. She then says to Steve, "My aunt. She's kind of an insomniac." I always took that to mean that to mean that she was on the phone with her Great-Aunt Peggy (as that's the relationship in the comics) talking aboutSteve's visit earlier in the day.

I caught that too. I'd dismissed it as a coincidence before, but I began to think otherwise upon a recent rewatch.

BTW, I had a brain fart in my previous post where I was thinking of direct descendency, but breaking down the generations like that makes the point anyway. If Peggy were a great-great-grandaunt, she'd likely date back to that other Civil War....

 

[JD]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

There was an allusion to Peggy and Sharon's relationship in CA:TWS. After Steve left the Smithsonian, he then visited Peggy at the hospital, after which he stopped by the VA to see Sam. The next we see Steve, he is arriving home that night where he encounters Sharon in the hallway. She is talking on the phone with someone saying, "So sweet. That is so nice." Then she sees Steve and she tells the person she's talking to that she's gotta go. She then says to Steve, "My aunt. She's kind of an insomniac." I always took that to mean that to mean that she was on the phone with her Great-Aunt Peggy (as that's the relationship in the comics) talking aboutSteve's visit earlier in the day.

Yeah that occurred to me too, but it does make a huge amount of objective sense. For one thing, why would Fury assign a relative of Peggy Carter (because there's no way he didn't know) as Steve's protection detail? Even if she requested the assignment (which I can see happening) it seems a little unprofessional, especially given Peggy's condition.

Secondly, if she's that close with her great Aunt, why aren't there pictures of her in Peggy's room? We know there isn't because Steve would have seen it and therefore recognised her already. Old people love to surround themselves with pictures of their relatives, especially the ones they're closest to.

I'm not saying it's beyond the bounds of possibility, indeed I'm pretty well convinced that was the intent of the scene, but it does raise some problems.

Not least of which being the "ick" factor if they're going ahead with the romance thread. From Agent 13's perspective, that's the man who was love of her great aunt's life and in some alternate timeline somewhere could very possibly be her great-uncle.
From Steve's perspective...well that's Peggy's flesh and blood. I don't think it needs to be spelled out why he should be utterly repulsed by the very idea. Even if they do some sneaky side-stepping and have be be adopted or only related via an earlier marriage and not actually a blood relation, it'd still feel...wrong.

That said, if they're not doing the romance thing then fine, problem solved. Honestly, I'd much rather these be two mutually exclusive possibilities.

I have to admit, I hadn't really given the relationship a lot of thought, but it is kind of creepy. I was just wondering about it because it's such a big part of the comics.
In the comics, which came first the relationship between Steve and Sharon, or Sharon's relationship to Peggy Carter?

 

[Turtletrekker]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

To be honest, until the first Cap movie, Sharon was the Carter you were more likely to read about. Peggy was always portrayed as the woman from Cap's past.

I gotta admit, I'm not really seeing the creepy-ick factor that's bothering some. I once knew someone who divorced one sister and promptly married the other and no one had a problem with it, including the ex and their parents.

 

[Venardhi]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

I think that is probably a major exception to the rule there Turtle, I knew a couple brothers who married two sisters soon after highschool and within a year of one pair divorcing so did the other, reportedly from the strain of the family strife and politics that were forcing them to pick sides. That ex-wife/sister must be a fucking saint of some kind.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

There was an allusion to Peggy and Sharon's relationship in CA:TWS. After Steve left the Smithsonian, he then visited Peggy at the hospital, after which he stopped by the VA to see Sam. The next we see Steve, he is arriving home that night where he encounters Sharon in the hallway. She is talking on the phone with someone saying, "So sweet. That is so nice." Then she sees Steve and she tells the person she's talking to that she's gotta go. She then says to Steve, "My aunt. She's kind of an insomniac." I always took that to mean that to mean that she was on the phone with her Great-Aunt Peggy (as that's the relationship in the comics) talking aboutSteve's visit earlier in the day.

Yeah that occurred to me too, but it does make a huge amount of objective sense. For one thing, why would Fury assign a relative of Peggy Carter (because there's no way he didn't know) as Steve's protection detail? Even if she requested the assignment (which I can see happening) it seems a little unprofessional, especially given Peggy's condition.

Secondly, if she's that close with her great Aunt, why aren't there pictures of her in Peggy's room? We know there isn't because Steve would have seen it and therefore recognised her already. Old people love to surround themselves with pictures of their relatives, especially the ones they're closest to.

I'm not saying it's beyond the bounds of possibility, indeed I'm pretty well convinced that was the intent of the scene, but it does raise some problems.

Not least of which being the "ick" factor if they're going ahead with the romance thread. From Agent 13's perspective, that's the man who was love of her great aunt's life and in some alternate timeline somewhere could very possibly be her great-uncle.
From Steve's perspective...well that's Peggy's flesh and blood. I don't think it needs to be spelled out why he should be utterly repulsed by the very idea. Even if they do some sneaky side-stepping and have be be adopted or only related via an earlier marriage and not actually a blood relation, it'd still feel...wrong.

That said, if they're not doing the romance thing then fine, problem solved. Honestly, I'd much rather these be two mutually exclusive possibilities.

I have to admit, I hadn't really given the relationship a lot of thought, but it is kind of creepy. I was just wondering about it because it's such a big part of the comics.
In the comics, which came first the relationship between Steve and Sharon, or Sharon's relationship to Peggy Carter?

IIRC, we first see Peggy in some WWII flashback stories.She and Steve fall in love but he never finds out her name, Then we meet Sharon who looks like Peggy. She and Steve fall in love Finally we meet Sharon's older sister (this was back in the 70s) who turns out to be Peggy.

 

[DWF]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

Seems like she is:

http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Peggy_Carter
The source appears to be a deleted scene from Avengers.

That's strange for some odd reason I thought Rogers was younger than Peggy, but he was born in 1918.

The reason you thought that is that Peggy being born in 1921 is not remotely consistent with how the character was presented in TFA. It's pretty clear that they're just trying to keep her at a "reasonable" age, rather than having her a centenarian.

Truthfully PEggy came across as a bit more mature than skinny Steve and of course bigger physically.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

I think that is probably a major exception to the rule there Turtle, I knew a couple brothers who married two sisters soon after highschool and within a year of one pair divorcing so did the other, reportedly from the strain of the family strife and politics that were forcing them to pick sides. That ex-wife/sister must be a fucking saint of some kind.

But this is less weird than marrying someone's sister. The generational thing is odd because it simply isn't a real world thing, but if they were cousins it would be fine. If this were mother and daughter or mother and granddaughter, yeah, that would be a problem. But it's not so I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[DWF]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

I doubt if Cap in Civil War will have any time for a romance, but I don't see any problem with having a relationship with Sharon even she's related to Peggy. Natasha's attempts to hook up Cap does make him look a bit like a loser and it'd be nice to have in a realy relationship and stop pining away for Peggy.

 

[DEWLine]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

The details of the familial relationship between Peggy and Sharon were retconned as a consequence of the passage of both real-world and fictional time for the creatives, the readers and the characters. The more time that passed in the wake of the war, the more the weirdness, real and perceived, of the characters' relationships to each other changed.

For myself? I became a regular Cap reader around the time Bernadette Rosenthal started appearing as a regular character.

 

[Mr Light]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

<<For one thing, why would Fury assign a relative of Peggy Carter (because there's no way he didn't know) as Steve's protection detail? Even if she requested the assignment (which I can see happening) it seems a little unprofessional, especially given Peggy's condition.>>

We learned in Age of Ultron that Nick first sent Black Widow after the Hulk in the hopes that they would fall in love...

 

[DEWLine]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

Seemed a distant hope to have at that point. He was willing to settle for whatever degree of amicable cooperation they could work out, judging by the dialogue as performed.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

The details of the familial relationship between Peggy and Sharon were retconned as a consequence of the passage of both real-world and fictional time for the creatives, the readers and the characters. The more time that passed in the wake of the war, the more the weirdness, real and perceived, of the characters' relationships to each other changed.

For myself? I became a regular Cap reader around the time Bernadette Rosenthal started appearing as a regular character.

For me it was the 70s a few years prior to the reveal that Cap's lost love from WWII was Sharon's sister. Even then I thought the age gap between Sharon and Peggy was odd. Though some of my Aunts and Uncles have similar age gaps.

 

[JD]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

Don't Peggy and Sharon look alike in the comics? I think I remember reading somewhere that they were drawn to look almost identical at one point.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

Don't Peggy and Sharon look alike in the comics? I think I remember reading somewhere that they were drawn to look almost identical at one point.

Yep, when we first meet Sharon, Cap notices her because she looks like Peggy.

 

[DWF]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

The details of the familial relationship between Peggy and Sharon were retconned as a consequence of the passage of both real-world and fictional time for the creatives, the readers and the characters. The more time that passed in the wake of the war, the more the weirdness, real and perceived, of the characters' relationships to each other changed.

For myself? I became a regular Cap reader around the time Bernadette Rosenthal started appearing as a regular character.

I loved Bernie too, John Byrne knows how draw attractive women. But Sharon hasa longer history with Steve and if they want to replace Steve with either Bucky or Sam, thery might use Sharon to "kill" off Steve.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

<<For one thing, why would Fury assign a relative of Peggy Carter (because there's no way he didn't know) as Steve's protection detail? Even if she requested the assignment (which I can see happening) it seems a little unprofessional, especially given Peggy's condition.>>

We learned in Age of Ultron that Nick first sent Black Widow after the Hulk in the hopes that they would fall in love...

When did we learn that?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

I think it was at the end. Romanoff asked if Fury knew it would happen. He said you never know but can only hope.

 

[Mr Light]

Re: Captain America: Civil War - pre-release discussion, news, rumors,

In the farmhouse scene between Natasha and Fury.