Can we talk about TNG for a minute?

[sovereign]

I was responding to another thread within this forum and it got me thinking....

I realize that the latest Trek film was a blockbuster success that re-invigorated the franchise (from a financial standpoint, not creatively in my opinion). And yes, the general public is aware of terms such as "USS Enterprise" "Captain Kirk", "Spock" etc. I guess what is bothering me is what I perceive to be a lack of appreciation of the significance and contribution of TNG to popular culture.

I realize that the success of the original films paved the way for a new Star Trek TV show, but are we forgetting that the enormous success (both in terms of viewership and critical response) of TNG paved the way for DS9, Voyager, Enterprise and 4 feature films?

I still enjoy watching TNG two decades following its premiere. Many of these episodes are timeless... and in my opinion excellent. Yes the last TNG movie was a financial failure.... but really, this was the first time this incarnation of the franchise failed in this respect.

It makes me wonder what we'd be saying in the 90's if the original movies ceased after the failure of Star Trek V. The original crew got a proper send off followed by a crossover film. Now they are reborn.

It just saddens me that so many have turned their backs on the TNG era. It will forever be my favorite, and I feel it deserves more respect....

 

[Trek Survivor]

I'm with you. I think people have forgotten in the mists of time just how HUGE Next Gen was back in the day.

 

[The Wormhole]

I realize that the success of the original films paved the way for a new Star Trek TV show, but are we forgetting that the enormous success (both in terms of viewership and critical response) of TNG paved the way for DS9, Voyager, Enterprise and 4 feature films?

There is no denying TNG is an excellent television show, however I do think you're overstating its importance here. DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise weren't exactly big hits with the ratings, and out of the four TNG movies the only one that was really a success was First Contact, and even that wasn't the big money-maker of the year.

 

[barnaclelapse]

I don't think people are turning their backs on it. The fans who loved TNG before the new movie came out still love TNG. It's just that you can't top TOS for cultural impact and overall pop culture awareness. That's what a studio is going to come back to when they want to re imagine something from the Trek universe.

TNG still has its fans, and those fans aren't likely to go anywhere for a while.

 

[Kegg]

Eh. I'm old enough to remember when a lot of people felt the other way around - everything Trekwise was about TNG and TNG's spinoff shows. There were TOS fans and TNG fans who loved TOS also (like me!) but it was a different breed of things, if that makes sense.

I realize that the success of the original films paved the way for a new Star Trek TV show, but are we forgetting that the enormous success (both in terms of viewership and critical response) of TNG paved the way for DS9, Voyager, Enterprise and 4 feature films?

There is no denying TNG is an excellent television show, however I do think you're overstating its importance here. DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise weren't exactly big hits with the ratings, and out of the four TNG movies the only one that was really a success was First Contact, and even that wasn't the big money-maker of the year.

Which if anything emphasizes TNG's importance. Three TV shows and four films were made basically on the strength of TNG's popularity. That they were nowhere near as popular is why the TNG legacy died, but TNG's success is what made that enormous glut of produce possible.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

I only started watching TNG the night it aired Time's Arrow. The only reason i didn't change the channel was because i was sick in bed with the flu and didn't have the strength to change the channel!

Looking back, i sure am glad i was sick that night! Prior to that night I had refused to watch TNG because i was such a TOS fan. I was incensed that another Trek show was being made, so i didn't watch it. I cannot remember if i knew that it wasn't a TOS rehash and that it was it's own show or not. I didn't read about it or know details about the show. I honestly did not know that it had such a huge following.

Anyway, i watched from the Time's Arrow episode on. And then i watched reruns and was able to catch most of the series. Of course now i have them all on DVD and watch at least 4 episodes a week. And i love it even more than i did when i first discovered it.
As i have gotten older i appreciate so many episodes even more than i did when i originally saw them.

For the most part, TNG was well written and beautifully acted. I love it and always will! And it most definitely has an important place in Star Trek history.

 

[Anika Hanson]

I agree. It is really sad to think that's it for TNG. Itw as my favourite show by far and I think after TOS is the most important series in star trek.

 

[Myasishchev]

Jeez, they got a lot more time on camera than the TOS guys, even counting the new ones. By literally hundreds of hours.

It's not to TNG's credit that its time on the big screen was eight hours of utter botch. But everyone remembers Picard and Data.

 

[Kirkman1987]

TNG is a fantastic show, it just lacks the iconic status of the original. TNG and DS9 are my favorites of the shows.

 

[SFRabid]

Without TOS there would be no TNG. You cannot say the same thing in reverse. Fans put up with two bad seasons of TNG because they were so happy just to have ST on the air again. Luckily TNG really improved after those first two seasons, but, if it had not come along some other ST series would have made it on air. That is the way TV goes. Trek is too big not to remake and remarket. I'm surprised it took this long for them to make a new movie with a new TOS cast.

But the biggest thing, TNG did not address social issues the way TOS did. TOS was ground breaking. TNG was opportunistic. It lead to DS9 and ENT which are my favorite two series out of Trek, but people are always going to give more credit to the original band than anyone that does a cover.

 

[Myasishchev]

But the biggest thing, TNG did not address social issues the way TOS did. TOS was ground breaking. TNG was opportunistic.

I dunno, TNG had the disadvantage of seeming less socially conscious because it emerged in a more tolerant time than TOS. They still did a lot of social stuff that was pretty stark for its era.

"Outcast" was pretty good, just as an example. I don't remember any episode of TOS where it said it was okay to be gay, and societies that do not permit this should be bombarded from orbit. All right , that last part's only in the special edition of "Outcast" that's in my head, but you get the picture.

One can make an argument that "Up the Long Ladder" makes a sociopolitical statement about extremely late-term abortion, but it probably is more reasonable to say that "Up the Long Ladder" simply sucks.

It would be imprudent to ignore the social message of TNG as a whole--that a moniless, egalitarian, anti-capitalist command economy works. Just that it isn't a particularly American message, or a particularly well-vocalized one, doesn't mean it wasn't there. It was also a weird thing to see on TV while real life Communism was winding down.

 

[I am not Spock]

The general public is aware of TNG. At least, they'd know 'the bald guy' and 'the robot'. DS9, VOY, and ENT haven't been as fortunate.

Without TNG, Trek probably would have died with ST V. The original poster is right, it doesn't get enough respect for resurrecting Trek 20 years ago.

I think Trek will be with us for quite a while yet, though. It's one of those ideas that just won't go away forever. Even after the end of ENT, I never doubted we'd see more Trek again someday.

 

[BillJ]

Star Trek was fun and adventure that might get you to think about something. Next Gen seemed to miss about two-thirds of that formula.

Characters were very laid back and the morality of the show was way out of synch with most of the viewers. Which isn't a bad thing if you can wrap it in an interesting tale (like hiding a pill in peanut butter). Planet is going to have its atmosphere ripped away... we'll sit about and discuss and watch while it happens. One of our closest allies is mired in a civil war, that if it lost could have very bad reprecussions for everyone in that part of the galaxy... we'll sit about and discuss and watch while it happens. In each and every scenario muttering the magic words "Prime Directive".

Next Gen could have surpassed the original Star Trek... only it became too full of itself.

 

[timothy1701]

TNG is still popular, or at least popular enough to be spoofed on Family Guy.

 

[Kataaran]

It's a shame TNG went out on such a crappy movie, at least TOS had one more after ST5 to pull it back up.

 

[Kegg]

TNG is still popular, or at least popular enough to be spoofed on Family Guy.

It's still eighties enough to be spoofed by Family Guy. I thought that show was big on eighties references, including many far more obscure than TNG.

One can make an argument that "Up the Long Ladder" makes a sociopolitical statement about extremely late-term abortion, but it probably is more reasonable to say that "Up the Long Ladder" simply sucks.

Melinda Snodgrass, the writer of the episode, has said it's basically an intentional abortion analogy, which given the use of language in the episode should surprise no one.

However I think the excessive racism of the episode sort of cancels that out.

Without TOS there would be no TNG. You cannot say the same thing in reverse.

Yes but you can say this:

It lead to DS9 and ENT

So TNG does have its own legacy, like it or loathe it (or even prefer it).

 

[Shazam!]

Without TOS there would be no TNG. You cannot say the same thing in reverse.

That's one of the daftest things I've ever read.

 

[SilentP]

Without TOS there would be no TNG. You cannot say the same thing in reverse.

That's one of the daftest things I've ever read.

Indeed, "TNG no would there TOS without"

But in seriousness, there is a point to what he's saying, i.e. that TOS's existance is not dependent upon TNG's existance.

 

[friedebarth]

Personally, I think TNG and its fans will never die. I recently convinced my mom that TNG is quite a good show, and usually she isn't such a scifi fanatic. Okay, step in the wrong generational direction, but if we can convince older people of the coolness of TNG, we can do the same with younger peeps.

And TNG will always be the best. TOS was a cheap space opera coined for wild west, then we had Deep Space Kaboom, Janeway in the Sky with Assholes, and EastEnders in Space.

Especially in Germany, the biggest proportion of Trekkies are TNG fans. So, quit TOSsing around rumours that it will die because we, the enVOYs of Trek, will reach this descENT to our sons and daughters. No, I couldn't think of one for DS9

 

[Myasishchev]

One can make an argument that "Up the Long Ladder" makes a sociopolitical statement about extremely late-term abortion, but it probably is more reasonable to say that "Up the Long Ladder" simply sucks.

Melinda Snodgrass, the writer of the episode, has said it's basically an intentional abortion analogy, which given the use of language in the episode should surprise no one.

Well, fair enough. I guess nothing stops it from doing both.