Cameras used to film TOS (BTS)

[Just a Bill]

I've been trying to figure out exactly which camera(s) were used on TOS. A thread from over 16 years ago ("Type of film camera used on TOS?"), included some speculations that, when mixed with other tidbits I've been able to find, I would summarize as follows:

• Desilu probably used the cameras they had already been using for other shows such as I Love Lucy. These appear to have been most likely Mitchell 35mm BNCs.
• Desilu may have had a deal with Panasonic for Panavisions sometime in the early 60s.
• The cameras seen on screen in Bread and Circuses were not the show's filming cameras.

I think I saw what looked like Panavision(s) in some BTS shots for the motion pictures, but every TOS shot I can find seems to use something more in line with Mitchells. I'm hoping somebody can identify exactly which model(s) are seen here, as it has not been very straightforward for me to align these shots with camera images I've been able to google, partly because the search results are not always consistent. It might be that some commenters/chroniclers know generally what a Mitchell is but aren't sure exactly which camera is which model; I certainly am not knowledgeable.

It's probably obvious that the first four shots show Plato's Stepchildren and the fifth is from The Cage. The next two after that are in Trelane's home, the two (stacked vertically) come from Billy Blackburn's home videos of production on The Paradise Syndrome and/or Arena, and the last one is found on page 131 of the Eaglemoss Hero Collector book Star Trek: A Celebration. (You can click to enlarge some of them somewhat, but not by a lot.)

These crops have been trimmed from sources gathered around the web, and should be non-commercial/educational "fair use." In every case I snapshotted or cropped so as to show only the fraction of the source image or video needed to show the camera and maybe provide a hint of context. I think the majority of these can be found in their full form on www.startrekpropauthority.com in the rare TOS photos & videos sections of the site.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

The second photo section in The Making of Star Trek has an excellent look at the camera being used in the Briefing Room scene from "The Man Trap."

 

[feek61]

I read years ago they used Mitchells and that is what they appear to be in the photos
.

 

[Metryq]

I've always been a video guy, but I once owned a lot of books on film gear due to an interest in visual effects. (I've had to thin my library over the years whenever I moved.) Identifying a particular camera might be difficult, especially if it is "blimped" for soundstage work.

Long after electronic post-production became the norm—editing on videotape or a computer NLE—film remained the best option for quality and budget. Today I think you'd be hard pressed to find a production shot on film. I might be wrong. I don't have numbers on this, but electronic cameras have now reached the point where they are more sensitive and have higher resolutions than film. (Astronomers were the first to use CCD or CMOS imagers, as they are more sensitive than film.)

Star Trek TNG was made right through this transition. Shot on film, then edited electronically, along with electronically composited VFX. I believe the series was entirely re-edited and "posted" for Blu-ray, since the original "masters" were Standard Def 4:3 frames.

 

[Just a Bill]

A few months ago I read somewhere that we'll basically never get a decent high-res transfer of DS9 because it was shot entirely on video and there's just no more resolution to tease out of it. Is that correct?

 

[CoveTom]

A few months ago I read somewhere that we'll basically never get a decent high-res transfer of DS9 because it was shot entirely on video and there's just no more resolution to tease out of it. Is that corrent?

No, it's not. DS9 was done the same way TNG was -- it was shot on film and then edited on videotape. As a result, the original camera negatives, which are still housed at Paramount, have the image quality for a true high definition transfer, but the final edited versions of the episodes do not.

In addition, DS9 was made during the transition from practical, motion control visual effects to CGI. The model-based effects were shot on film, but the CGI effects were rendered at SD resolution and there is no HD version. So for all the live action elements and for those visual effects that were done practically with models, high resolution negatives still exist. But not for the CGI effects shots.

So to do a true HD release of DS9 they would have to (1) reconstruct every single episode from the original film elements and (2) either recreate the CGI effects from scratch or rely on upscaling the existing effects.

So is it *possible* for Paramount to do a true HD release of DS9? Yes, absolutely. Are they likely to? Probably not. DS9 and Voyager are seen as having much smaller potential markets than TNG, and it would take a great deal of money that they feel they would be unlikely to recoup to make it happen.

 

[Just a Bill]

Ah, that all makes perfect sense. Thank you.

 

[The Salt Umpire]

What about the TV cameras in Bread And Circuses? Real or fake?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

What about the TV cameras in Bread And Circuses? Real or fake?

They were real:

Star Trek: Original Era Roundtable | When they were making the episode "Bread and Circuses," the scenes utilized lots of things that you would normally find at a film studio | Facebook

When they were making the episode "Bread and Circuses," the scenes utilized lots of things that you would normally find at a film studio. Things like props, booms, and cameras. I am sure they made...

www.facebook.com

I haven't found a reference for the name brand yet. It looks like "Telestaton" in this frame, but I'm not sure:

https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/screencaps/season2/214-bread-and-circuses/bread-and-circuses-br-507.jpg

If someone has their Bluray player handy, it might be sharper on disc.

Edit: a reply to that Facebook post cited this; the cursive writing just says "Television," duh:

RCA TK-11 & TK-31 Television Camera

 

[The Salt Umpire]

They were real:

Nice. Thanks!

 

[Metryq]

I worked in a university TV studio. Among the ancient gear stacked in a storage room were the fuel hoses, er, cables and manual for an RCA TK-15, but not the cameras themselves. The manuals included photos. And they looked very much like the TK-11/TK-31 seen in the episode "Bread and Circuses." I can just imagine the "clack!" of changing lenses with that rotating turret. One more reminder of how long ago TOS was produced.

Then there was that 300 pound VTR with the alpha wrap that used 2-inch tape... egads! (Ampex 660, I think.) Today we do 4K video with smartphones.

 

[jamesteakirk]

I've been trying to figure out exactly which camera(s) were used on TOS. A thread from over 16 years ago ("Type of film camera used on TOS?"), included some speculations that, when mixed with other tidbits I've been able to find, I would summarize as follows:

• Desilu probably used the cameras they had already been using for other shows such as I Love Lucy. These appear to have been most likely Mitchell 35mm BNCs.
• Desilu may have had a deal with Panasonic for Panavisions sometime in the early 60s.
• The cameras seen on screen in Bread and Circuses were not the show's filming cameras.

I think I saw what looked like Panavision(s) in some BTS shots for the motion pictures, but every TOS shot I can find seems to use something more in line with Mitchells. I'm hoping somebody can identify exactly which model(s) are seen here, as it has not been very straightforward for me to align these shots with camera images I've been able to google, partly because the search results are not always consistent. It might be that some commenters/chroniclers know generally what a Mitchell is but aren't sure exactly which camera is which model; I certainly am not knowledgeable.

It's probably obvious that the first four shots show Plato's Stepchildren and the fifth is from The Cage. The next two after that are in Trelane's home, and the last two (stacked vertically) come from Billy Blackburn's home videos of production on The Paradise Syndrome and/or Arena. (You can click to enlarge some of them somewhat, but not by a lot.)

These crops have been trimmed from sources gathered around the web, and should be non-commercial/educational "fair use." In every case I snapshotted or cropped so as to show only the fraction of the source image or video needed to show the camera and maybe provide a hint of context. I think the majority of these can be found in their full form on www.startrekpropauthority.com in the rare TOS photos & videos sections of the site.

They used film cameras. You’re welcome!

 

[Maurice]

They used film cameras. You’re welcome!

No one's thanking you.

 

[XCV330]

Desilu was still using Mitchell's on stage 8 for M.I. and I think on Star Trek also. It was common to lease camera equipment, but Desilu, at least early on, bought, as Desi was pretty adamant about getting good film. It paid them back tremendously when their reruns were in high demand.

Apparently at least one of the old Mitchell cameras is at Trekonderoga. I have never had the chance to go.

 

[Just a Bill]

The second photo section in The Making of Star Trek has an excellent look at the camera being used in the Briefing Room scene from "The Man Trap."

Thanks for this, Zap. My childhood copy of TMoST is apparently long gone, but now I've got a replacement on the way. After it arrives I'll add new photos to my first post.

 

[Just a Bill]

Here are the shots from the book, courtesy of my poor photography skills and lack of post-processing. Taken during filming of "Friday's Child," I think.

This looks like a smaller camera to me, judging by the size of the blimp compared to the heads and the apparent reduced horizontal bulk. It makes sense that for location shooting (especially in challenging terrain) they'd want something more nimble than the studio rig. I don't know anything about these cameras, but I would guess this shoots on the same stock but has a lower limit on how much film can be captured.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Then there was that 300 pound VTR with the alpha wrap that used 2-inch tape... egads! (Ampex 660, I think.) Today we do 4K video with smartphones.

Fancy that: I wasn't aware that there were 2" formats other than Quad.

 

[Metryq]

Fancy that: I wasn't aware that there were 2" formats other than Quad.

There are "little known" items in almost any field. It's fun to discover them, especially if you think you've seen everything.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Indeed. In videotape, I have direct experience working with EIAJ 1/2" reel-to-reel, regular 3/4", 3/4" SP, and Betacam SP (including type-L cassettes).

And in terms of floppy disks, I've seen a few formats that never really caught on, and I'm more familiar than I'd really like to be with the Commodore Amiga format, which somehow crammed eleven(!) 512-byte sectors per track onto a non-HD 3 1/2" floppy, without using index sync. (Speaking from bitter experience, it was a house of cards built on mined eggshells, and I hope I never have to use an Amiga again.)

 

[Metryq]

How about those Fisher-Price PXL-2000 video cameras that recorded on audio cassettes? Was it Amiga or Commodore that also used audio cassettes?