California's Water Crisis

[Ithekro]

Northern California has been upset with Southern California over water for a long time. The previous long droughts have reports of sizable restrictions and cutbacks in state laws and evidence of them in use in the Bay Area and other parts of Northern California, while more reports have basically nothing seemingly changing around Los Angeles. The lawns are still watered, the pools are still full, and people continue to water their cars in the driveway. One could see the problems in the North on the News then look outside from UCLA and it would seem like nothing is wrong.

Thus the North is generally upset with the South.

That and the source of Los Angeles' water are upset with them.

 

[Hatshepsut]

Whereupon sampling the prevailing LA mindset via CaDrought.com comments yields

Restrictions wont work, look how much water LA lost to broken pipelines this year! the cost of not building the plants will cost more over the long run, and give us a better return for the money than a high speed rail line.

- http://www.cadrought.com/can-desalination-save-california/

In other words, the solution to the drought is more cars!

 

[Jedi_Master]

Water is priced far below a reasonable value, as it is treated far differently from any other resource.

I think the fact that bottled water companies are sending lots of now precious California water to other states, for a tidy profit, is something that should be looked into.

 

[JES]

Then again, who even would even think of exporting water out of California?! How stupid!

I'm waiting for someone to tell me that I'm wrong about some areas in California becoming ghost towns when there isn't enough water to support all the cities and towns in California.

I'm wondering how much water they can get from desalinization, and how much of California can survive on imported water, once you get past the costs involved.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. Though water is a concern, there is another concern. There is an increased level of dust. I can smell the dust in the air. My mother has been sick from the dust for the past several months. It's a struggle to keep the house clean. I worry the longer the drought continues, that the air quality will become worse. I don't believe it will reach Dust Bowl levels; however, it will be bad.

The issues I have heard about desalnization was that it wouldn't generate as much water people believe it will and there is issue of what to do with the brine, a by-product of the process.

I have seen the drought in California tied to a larger looming global crisis in fresh water. I have read that there could be wars over water, for example, between India and Pakistan which share the same water resources, or of corporations owning fresh water. The latter, which happened in Bolivia in the late '90s', resulted in the Bolivian Water Wars.

I was watching the trailer for the latest Mad Max movie. The depletion of water was cited as one of the reasons for global catastrophe. It's not too far fetched - I can think of several civilizations whose poor management of water resources was one of the factors that lead to their destruction.

 

[Hatshepsut]

...or of corporations owning fresh water. The latter, which happened in Bolivia in the late '90s', resulted in the Bolivian Water Wars.

I was watching the trailer for the latest Mad Max movie. The depletion of water was cited as one of the reasons for global catastrophe. It's not too far fetched...

Whereas Evo Morales' solution of nationalizing the water company is presumably not applicable to California, even if the feds have paid for much of it. Whether collapse due to such problems will move from the post-apocalyptic screen into real life is doubtful but possible, especially if a water dispute merged with a series of ongoing political crises over other issues. I tend to view collapse as ultimately political, even on Easter Island where resource overreaches drove it. It was probably failure to make common cause in the face of an ecological threat, more than the threat itself, that did in the Easter Islanders, a thing Jared Diamond didn't credit in his collapse book. The chiefs and priests controlling that society wouldn't let go of their egos.

 

[Ithekro]

Last time we had a large, long drought in the 90s there was talk of breaking the state up. First into two states, and then when San Francisco voted against it because they would have been lumped with Los Angeles, it became a three state proposal (which died in committee). The media called it, Loglands (north of Sacramento), Fogland (Central California), and Smogland (Los Angeles). It seems to happen in cycles with California. There was the Six Californias proposal a year or so ago.

We might see it happen again over the water rights and issues with sources verses Los Angeles County.

 

[Dryson]

My suggestion for California would be to make it law that during times of excessive drought that Terry LeBleue Droughtmaster systems would be used. The Droughtmaster takes the available water in the air and converts it into purified and potable water. The Droughtmaster makes about seven gallons of water a day more than enough for drinking and light dishwashing. If the system was used year around then the water could be stored in large vessels for later use. Then when the water was needed it could be piped to homes or even to provide the almond farms with the water they need at a reduced cost that would have the system up and running sooner than the desalinization plant.

 

[Ithekro]

Assuming it doesn't just dry out the local air of whatever moisture is around and assuming it will work at that level for one per household when there is at least one house per quarter acre (if not two) in the suburban areas.

 

[Hatshepsut]

...in the 90s there was talk of breaking the state up. First into two states, and then...three...[Logland, Fogland, Smogland.] There was the Six Californias proposal a year or so ago...

I like that.

But isn't there something in the U.S. Constitution along the lines of "no new state...shall be erected...within the jurisdiction of an existing state..." without consent from Congress as well? Would they let ten new senators into the club? Not to mention the horror facing whoever has to design the 55-star flag. Though if they broke up California, Texas, and a few other huge states, presidential candidates might actually have to campaign in smaller states they currently ignore.

I take it a DroughtMaster is basically a dehumidifier. Ever see your electric bill after running one for a month?

 

[Ithekro]

The vote to separate the state would result in the United States needing to address the Constitution on that matter as the people would have spoken leading to the State Legislature and the US Congress needing to act on it. They could say no, but they would have to explain it in ways that don't result it something worse than two to six states of California as oppose to an illegal and wealthy nation of California.

 

[MANT!]

Bay area resident here.. trying to do my part to cut my water consumption..

Bought a water and energy saving dishwasher that literally uses 2 coffee cups per cycle..
we had been doing all our dishes by hand.. I've dropped 1/2 gallon milk jugs (filled with chlorinated water) in my 1990s era low flow toilets, As a condo owner, I have no grass and the HOA is only watering for 10 minutes at 4am, 2 times per week.. our showers are now shorter with lower water pressure.. we have 3 potted plants (one is a cactus)
and they are watered after sundown.. my actual water consumption was $14.00 over the last 2 months, my service charge was $88.00 (we are paying for an absolute state of the art water treatment plant that went in 5 years ago..supposedly you can drink the water that comes out...)..

As Agriculture makes a huge pile of money for the state, the government is hardly expected to "kill the golden goose" unless the situation gets absolutely apocalyptic..

however, my local city government was watering it's road medians at 3 PM today..with high winds simply blowing that water to the asphalt..

 

[Hatshepsut]

...as opposed to an illegal and wealthy nation of California.

The Bear Flag Republic is back. Will I need a visa to fly to San Francisco? I dunno; they may want to study their history first before they try this. Especially Lincoln's state of the Union address of Dec. 3, 1861. (Oddly, Lincoln here predicted the U.S. might have 250 million people within a lifetime. It didn't come true until 1990, but not bad for a guess out of the stovepipe hat.)

...however, my local city government was watering it's road medians at 3 PM today..with high winds simply blowing that water to the asphalt..

So "do as we say..." is not just where I live after all.

 

[Ithekro]

Buying new toilets. Our ancient toilets have multiple bottles in them from I think the 1990s drought, it not the 1970s drought. We didn't replace our toilets then because my Grandparents had theirs replaced in 1992 and those things never flushed very well. The modern ones just get it all out now. We got a more efficient washing machine last year so the drop from 2013 to 2015 will be noticeable just because of that. The lawn gets watered for I think a minute, maybe two every few days.

We replaced a bath tub with a new shower, though I don't know what effect that will have since we'd stopped using that tub about a decade ago. I don't know if the new shower is any more efficient than the older shower.

 

[farmkid]

As Agriculture makes a huge pile of money for the state, the government is hardly expected to "kill the golden goose" unless the situation gets absolutely apocalyptic..

Giving agriculture preferential treatment isn't just about economics, it's about necessity. California is a huge provider of food for the rest of the country. It would have a huge effect on the country if CA agriculture had to cut water the same as everyone else. Now, that doesn't mean that I think ag should get a complete pass. I think it makes sense to reduce growth of crops like alfalfa that can be grown anywhere and focus on crops that don't do well in other places.

 

[farmkid]

So I just ran across some data about water usage in California that changes the picture a little. It turns out that the 80% and 20% figures we've been seeing exclude water used for environmental purposes. Some of those environmental purposes are things mandated by Congress and other regulatory bodies. It turns out that 50% of the water in the state is used for environmental uses, 40% agriculture, 10% urban. To be fair, a lot of the water used for environmental uses is in rivers in the northern part of the state and can't be diverted for other uses, so those numbers by themselves don't tell the whole story, either. The take-home message, though, is that the 80%/20% numbers you've been seeing everywhere aren't accurate.

 

[Karzak]

Indeed. Almonds get the short end of the stick and the blame, but there are crops that are far worse and consume much more water than almonds, which are also a chief export of California.

The moral of the story being -- it's not a simple "flip a switch and the problem is solved" kind of problem.

Though I still can't wrap my head around people who hose down their driveways. Ever hear of a broom?

 

[Ithekro]

California make a lot of rice.

 

[MacLeod]

As Agriculture makes a huge pile of money for the state, the government is hardly expected to "kill the golden goose" unless the situation gets absolutely apocalyptic..

Giving agriculture preferential treatment isn't just about economics, it's about necessity. California is a huge provider of food for the rest of the country. It would have a huge effect on the country if CA agriculture had to cut water the same as everyone else. Now, that doesn't mean that I think ag should get a complete pass. I think it makes sense to reduce growth of crops like alfalfa that can be grown anywhere and focus on crops that don't do well in other places.

Would say cutting production by say 5% and the resulting use of less water have that serious an impact to availability? Sure cost might go up because there is less of it available.

 

[tavor]

you mention agriculture and households ,what's the story with the various businesses and factories in the area, what's their usage