By Any Other Name: A New Perspective

[Henoch]

eah, I've said before - even though the ep is Top 20-25 material for me - that the thing that makes me maddest in all of Star Trek is the total lack of justice for the outrageous murder of Yeoman Thompson. I like to think that once Kirk and Starfleet regained control and neutralized the paralyzer, they returned to the planet and quietly arrested, tried, and convicted Rojan before sending him away for life to a penal colony.

And arrest the rest of the Kelvan band for accomplices to murder (and other crimes like kidnapping and theft of Federation property). I don't see the Federation sending the probe to Andromeda inviting another war-like race to our galaxy, and I wouldn't let them know about the Great Barrier so they continuously wreck themselves if they send more.

 

[Phaser Two]

And arrest the rest of the Kelvan band for accomplices to murder (and other crimes like kidnapping and theft of Federation property). I don't see the Federation sending the probe to Andromeda inviting another war-like race to our galaxy, and I wouldn't let them know about the Great Barrier so they continuously wreck themselves if they send more.

Sure. I have no problem with throwing Hanar in the same prison for life. Perhaps Tomar can get a reduced sentence, then return (poor guy) to serve as the male progenitor of the new race in, uh, partnership with Kelinda and Drea.

 

[drt]

There were another few on the bridge at the end, probably because the duplicate Kirk was shot at the wrong angle and had to be corrected ("Good" Kirk was looking to the left of our screen and the double had to be "flopped" to be looking to the right). This results in the facial scratches being on the wrong side and the view screen being in the wrong spot. This episode is kind of a mess, editorially.

I always had the impression a lot of the flopped shots of the duplicate Kirk on the bridge at the end were intentional, to subtlety reenforce that he was the “opposite” of the good Kirk (with the hope that the audience at the time wouldn’t have time to process the errors incurred).

 

[johnnybear]

I loved the reuse of the 'Kirk Does it Again' theme from The Doomsday Machine when the Enterprise approaches the barrier for the second time in the shows history!
JB

 

[johnnybear]

Are we to assume that when Rojan's waxy facial colour is replaced by the fuller flesh tones that he has technically become human that or he now understands the human emotions of which he now possesses?
JB

 

[Marsden]

Yeah, I've said before - even though the ep is Top 20-25 material for me - that the thing that makes me maddest in all of Star Trek is the total lack of justice for the outrageous murder of Yeoman Thompson. I like to think that once Kirk and Starfleet regained control and neutralized the paralyzer, they returned to the planet and quietly arrested, tried, and convicted Rojan before sending him away for life to a penal colony.

And arrest the rest of the Kelvan band for accomplices to murder (and other crimes like kidnapping and theft of Federation property). I don't see the Federation sending the probe to Andromeda inviting another war-like race to our galaxy, and I wouldn't let them know about the Great Barrier so they continuously wreck themselves if they send more.

I don't know, did the miners on Janus 6 get arrested for murder? No, the Federation and Horta, through Kirk and the mother Horta, negotiated a peace treaty. Just like Kirk negotiated a peace treaty with Rojan. After the treaty, you don't hold the acts of war against the warring parties any longer unless it's part of the treaty to go after war criminals. The Horta could have demanded extra punishment for her side but the Federation lost 52 people, should the Horta have been imprisoned?

Should Kirk have had all of the orange people punished for killing Marple?

The Romulan Commander killed Hansen and everyone else on bases 2,3,4, and 8, Kirk offered to accept him and his people as prisoners from his destroyed ship, was that wrong?

The Gorn captain bombed Cestus 3, Kirk didn't kill him.


Kirk ended a war, possibly saving billions and certainly saving 400+ crew. She was a casualty of that war. If you can't move on from casualties in war, there will never be peace.

 

[Phaser Two]

Wow, totally different situations in every case. The Horta was defending her race. The Gorn thought they were doing the same. Vaal's people were acting under compulsion, while Vaal in fact was destroyed. Rojan brutally and unnecessarily killed defenseless Yeoman Thompson solely to punish Kirk for his escape attempt. That makes him a war criminal. And contrary to what you seem to be espousing, many peace treaties provide for the punishment of war criminals from the losing side.

No, offering to take the Romulan commander prisoner wasn't wrong. In fact, it's exactly what I'm suggesting should have happened to Rojan. And finally, no one said Rojan should be killed.

 

[Poltargyst]

Yeah, I've said before - even though the ep is Top 20-25 material for me - that the thing that makes me maddest in all of Star Trek is the total lack of justice for the outrageous murder of Yeoman Thompson. I like to think that once Kirk and Starfleet regained control and neutralized the paralyzer, they returned to the planet and quietly arrested, tried, and convicted Rojan before sending him away for life to a penal colony.

You mean "have his mind retrained in a neural neutralizer chair before being peacefully reintroduced into society."

 

[Phaser Two]

You mean "have his mind retrained in a neural neutralizer chair before being peacefully reintroduced into society."

If that's the way they roll . . . .

 

[Qonundrum]

Sure. I have no problem with throwing Hanar in the same prison for life. Perhaps Tomar can get a reduced sentence, then return (poor guy) to serve as the male progenitor of the new race in, uh, partnership with Kelinda and Drea.

Except inbreeding, which would be inevitable, would also lead to genetics-related problems. If such problems weren't there already. We're told they're descendants of the original space travelers from another galaxy and there weren't too many Kelvins to begin with.

Case in point: Certain royal lineage in certain Earth societies. Here's some fun afternoon tea time reading:

https://didyouknowfacts.com/5-royals-suffered-inbreeding/
https://listverse.com/2014/11/26/10-royal-families-riddled-with-incest/
https://animals.mom.me/problems-with-inbreeding-cats-5105419.html
https://www.petmd.com/dog/care/evr_dg_purebred_dogs_complications
https://thepigsite.com/articles/small-scale-pig-keeping-why-inbreeding-matters
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/scie...mice-science-leads-back-woman-barn-180968441/
(since these issues are recurrent across numerous species, though depending on nuance keeping certain traits (and beliefs too, woohoo!) identical down the genetic lottery has benefits but it's clearly risky... it's not my field, but it's interesting nonetheless... )

 

[Marsden]

Wow, totally different situations in every case. The Horta was defending her race. The Gorn thought they were doing the same. Vaal's people were acting under compulsion, while Vaal in fact was destroyed. Rojan brutally and unnecessarily killed defenseless Yeoman Thompson solely to punish Kirk for his escape attempt. That makes him a war criminal. And contrary to what you seem to be espousing, many peace treaties provide for the punishment of war criminals from the losing side.

No, offering to take the Romulan commander prisoner wasn't wrong. In fact, it's exactly what I'm suggesting should have happened to Rojan. And finally, no one said Rojan should be killed.

If Rojan is a war criminal, what conventions for establishing that fact did the Kelvan and Federation sign to establish that?

And I'm not espousing anything. A treaty would be the basis for any prosecutions or reparations that might occur after a war. But peace for the galaxy and saving over 400 more crew is more important than that.

I fail to see why some posters ascribe Human morals, (and not all Humans even have them) to an alien race.

SPOCK: Immense beings, a hundred limbs which resemble tentacles. Minds of such control and capacity that each limb is capable of performing a different function.
MCCOY: Do you mean that's what the Kelvans really are?
SPOCK: Undoubtedly.

To Rojan, they were probably like drones are in a beehive and drones aren't worth much.

 

[johnnybear]

No, offering to take the Romulan commander prisoner wasn't wrong. In fact, it's exactly what I'm suggesting should have happened to Rojan. And finally, no one said Rojan should be killed.

Looking at the bigger picture it saved untold billions of lives by avoiding space age conflicts caused by aliens like Rojan and the Gorn to say nothing of other alien races, to allow them to escape justice for their crimes against Kirk's crew and colonists out on the frontier!
JB

 

[johnnybear]

Come again, Mr.Foxhot?
JB

 

[johnnybear]

Dr.M'Benga was a good character and should have appeared in more episodes! We're lucky he got to do the two he did and as for Helen, she should have been a regular from the second season in a capacity like that of McKenna in Star Trek Continues perhaps?
JB

 

[Vger23]

This episode always goes on my "underrated personal favorites" lists.

It also has the distinction of being one of the only TOS episodes that infuses any continuity elements. In this case, there's significant and obvious call-backs to WNMHGB, but also to "A Taste of Armageddon" where Spock uses his often-forgotten non-touch telepathic powers.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

It also has the distinction of being one of the only TOS episodes that infuses any continuity elements. In this case, there's significant and obvious call-backs to WNMHGB, but also to "A Taste of Armageddon" where Spock uses his often-forgotten non-touch telepathic powers.

Yeah, that stuff is cool when the callbacks are few and understated. But I had a problem with Star Trek III going to the well of Star Trek II so much for lines. The characters came off like movie fans who'd memorized TWOK so they could quote it reverently to each other. And it only served to hang a lantern on the fact that the current script wasn't as good.

 

[Commishsleer]

If Rojan is a war criminal, what conventions for establishing that fact did the Kelvan and Federation sign to establish that?

And I'm not espousing anything. A treaty would be the basis for any prosecutions or reparations that might occur after a war. But peace for the galaxy and saving over 400 more crew is more important than that.

I fail to see why some posters ascribe Human morals, (and not all Humans even have them) to an alien race.

SPOCK: Immense beings, a hundred limbs which resemble tentacles. Minds of such control and capacity that each limb is capable of performing a different function.
MCCOY: Do you mean that's what the Kelvans really are?
SPOCK: Undoubtedly.

To Rojan, they were probably like drones are in a beehive and drones aren't worth much.

i agree.
when they were on Friday child's planet, one of the native dudes killed a redshirt for disobeying the laws of the planet. Kirk wasn't going to have the guy tried under Federation laws. In the end the Kelvans let the humans go. They could have killed them all at any point in time. Though I suppose the merriment in the 2nd half does perhaps leave a sour taste.

 

[johnnybear]

Let's just file Yeoman Thompson's death to a little misunderstanding between us and the Kelvans!
JB

 

[Commishsleer]

Let's just file Yeoman Thompson's death to a little misunderstanding between us and the Kelvans!
JB

I suppose we'd be looking at it differently if it had been McCoy or spock they'd killed.

 

[diankra]

I suppose we'd be looking at it differently if it had been McCoy or spock they'd killed.

Probably, but from the character point of view, the yeoman is dead, nothing Kirk does can bring her back, whereas in ST3, Spock is dead, but there is still something Kirk can do for him (which will also heal McCoy).