I had been waiting for Burning Dreams since it was first announced and I have to say it didn't disappoint. I thought MWB did a great job of developing the Pike character and the character developement giving to Vina was something I wasn't expecting. As far as the Crimson Tide parallels, that didn't bother me since I've never seen the film so I never noticed that it was the same basic story.
Burning Dreams
- Thread starter Bobatiel
- Start date
Ooh, I look forward to that. Any chance you could give me a hint?
Fact is that two months or so ago I started doing that very thing (a Pike era story) only it will be too big to qualify for something like SNWs (it's already about 60 pages or so). If I can arrange adequate representation then I just might chance submitting it to Pocket. And there are a very few around this site who have had a chance to read some of it through email as I was interested in their feedback.
I'm still working on it, but I can say so far so good. I'm basically happy with it, but there are some things (plot wise mostly) that I'm still working out.
^^ Thanks. One of the trickiest parts is conveying what I like to think are big sf ideas in a convincing way--using the language in just the right fashion to convey the imagery I have in mind. My hope is to try for some of that "sense of wonder" that we experienced with some of TOS' episodes.
Can't say. I don't want to make more of it than it actually was. It was a pretty minor part in the book, so I think that I should leave it for you to discover for yourself when you read the book.
Re: Burning Dreams (possible spoilers)
Just to address the Crimson Tide issue, it is one of my favorite films, because it shows how difficult command decisions can be, and how much depends on the character of the person making the decision.
That said, the plot for Crimson Tide could be said to be "borrowed" from Run Silent, Run Deep, which someone on another board pointed out was borrowed from Mutiny on the Bounty. And if you really want to stretch it, Mutiny on the Bounty, while based on real-life events, is also an homage to Shakespeare's Julius Caesar (which not incidentally is based on real-life events).
So what's the message here? That there are only four plotlines in the universe? That real life is sometimes stranger than fiction? Or, in the immortal words of Harve Bennett (who frankly admits he stole the last scene of TSFS from The Miracle Worker), "steal from the best."
Just to address the Crimson Tide issue, it is one of my favorite films, because it shows how difficult command decisions can be, and how much depends on the character of the person making the decision.
That said, the plot for Crimson Tide could be said to be "borrowed" from Run Silent, Run Deep, which someone on another board pointed out was borrowed from Mutiny on the Bounty. And if you really want to stretch it, Mutiny on the Bounty, while based on real-life events, is also an homage to Shakespeare's Julius Caesar (which not incidentally is based on real-life events).
So what's the message here? That there are only four plotlines in the universe? That real life is sometimes stranger than fiction? Or, in the immortal words of Harve Bennett (who frankly admits he stole the last scene of TSFS from The Miracle Worker), "steal from the best."
Re: Burning Dreams (possible spoilers)
A good read. I honestly think there's so little about Pike onscreen that one could go any which way they want with the character. This generally felt right for what we saw of him.
Being a biography, the episodic nature of Burning Dreams was expected, although that doesn't exactly ensure high quality. I'm usually not a fan of biographies, just look at Ray or Walk the Line (then again, please don't), for that choppy feeling. Though this book does have a few interesting moments when time periods blur and we jump around randomly.
The quality of said episodes varied a little bit. The first, and most detailed, is Pike's childhood on Elysium. This part walks a fine line between harlequin romance and compelling drama. Profuse with shades of Shane ("Come back Charlie! Willa still wants you!"), there were a couple elements a bit perplexing, namely why they'd settle on a planet with so much apparent volcanic instability and why there'd be a growing population of one particular group of antagonistic humans (against an indeterminate level of technology). Things on the periphery could have used a bit more time though. The step-dad goes bonkers pretty quickly and his exit garnered a bewildered chuckle from me. More of him pre-Elysium might have helped given his slide a bit more weight or perspective. I will say though that the book did aptly get across the increasing doubt and uncertainty of Willa and that felt quite realistic.
Characters like Charlie (and later Pike's alien girlfriend) appeared to be rather Yoda-esque in their mysteriousness and wisdom, which sometimes worked and sometimes didn't. How exactly Charlie was able to get away from Starfleet apparently whenever he wanted was a bit confusing. The twist revealed later was a surprise, but a pleasant one.
There has been reasonable criticism of Pike's stint as first officer as imitation of Crimson Tide and I noticed it too, seemingly down to the rain falling when they board the ship. After what I thought were variations on Shane earlier in the book (at least in my mind and I acknowledge the connections are tenuous), it didn't bother me so much as the lack of time spent developing the Aldrin's captain, who didn't come across more than a two-dimensional villain. I found it odd that Starfleet would let someone they know is a problem patrol an area where he could spark an interstellar incident.
The sections most fascinating where those set on Talos IV, where Margaret Wander Bonanno walks the tightrope of balancing the Talosians we saw in The Cage and their seemingly opposite behavior on display in The Menagerie. Ah, one of the many inconsistencies given to us by TOS. Anyway, Pike's acclimation to what is reality and what is illusion was well done and seeing how it was applied in an emotional and practical context was satisfying. I think this could have been pushed even further, humbling submitting that actually seeing the reconstruction of Talos IV would have made a great metaphor of Pike's psychological healing to climax the book on. We see the results and it makes for an incredibly strong and emotional ending even if, as mentioned, we are told of the changes instead of seeing them taking place. Pike's final wish was also a shocker and certainly demands a follow-up.
Other minor things:
-What class was the Aldrin? Was this the same ship that rescued Charlie and Chris at Elysium? More detail about pre-TOS Starfleet would have been appreciated.
-No proper name for Number One was distracting. If the running joke was that everyone thinks they've seen her before, why not just make Morgan Primus Number One?
A good read. I honestly think there's so little about Pike onscreen that one could go any which way they want with the character. This generally felt right for what we saw of him.
Being a biography, the episodic nature of Burning Dreams was expected, although that doesn't exactly ensure high quality. I'm usually not a fan of biographies, just look at Ray or Walk the Line (then again, please don't), for that choppy feeling. Though this book does have a few interesting moments when time periods blur and we jump around randomly.
The quality of said episodes varied a little bit. The first, and most detailed, is Pike's childhood on Elysium. This part walks a fine line between harlequin romance and compelling drama. Profuse with shades of Shane ("Come back Charlie! Willa still wants you!"), there were a couple elements a bit perplexing, namely why they'd settle on a planet with so much apparent volcanic instability and why there'd be a growing population of one particular group of antagonistic humans (against an indeterminate level of technology). Things on the periphery could have used a bit more time though. The step-dad goes bonkers pretty quickly and his exit garnered a bewildered chuckle from me. More of him pre-Elysium might have helped given his slide a bit more weight or perspective. I will say though that the book did aptly get across the increasing doubt and uncertainty of Willa and that felt quite realistic.
Characters like Charlie (and later Pike's alien girlfriend) appeared to be rather Yoda-esque in their mysteriousness and wisdom, which sometimes worked and sometimes didn't. How exactly Charlie was able to get away from Starfleet apparently whenever he wanted was a bit confusing. The twist revealed later was a surprise, but a pleasant one.
There has been reasonable criticism of Pike's stint as first officer as imitation of Crimson Tide and I noticed it too, seemingly down to the rain falling when they board the ship. After what I thought were variations on Shane earlier in the book (at least in my mind and I acknowledge the connections are tenuous), it didn't bother me so much as the lack of time spent developing the Aldrin's captain, who didn't come across more than a two-dimensional villain. I found it odd that Starfleet would let someone they know is a problem patrol an area where he could spark an interstellar incident.
The sections most fascinating where those set on Talos IV, where Margaret Wander Bonanno walks the tightrope of balancing the Talosians we saw in The Cage and their seemingly opposite behavior on display in The Menagerie. Ah, one of the many inconsistencies given to us by TOS. Anyway, Pike's acclimation to what is reality and what is illusion was well done and seeing how it was applied in an emotional and practical context was satisfying. I think this could have been pushed even further, humbling submitting that actually seeing the reconstruction of Talos IV would have made a great metaphor of Pike's psychological healing to climax the book on. We see the results and it makes for an incredibly strong and emotional ending even if, as mentioned, we are told of the changes instead of seeing them taking place. Pike's final wish was also a shocker and certainly demands a follow-up.
Other minor things:
-What class was the Aldrin? Was this the same ship that rescued Charlie and Chris at Elysium? More detail about pre-TOS Starfleet would have been appreciated.
-No proper name for Number One was distracting. If the running joke was that everyone thinks they've seen her before, why not just make Morgan Primus Number One?
Re: Burning Dreams (possible spoilers)
Number One should never have a proper name before, goddamnit. Never.
Number One should never have a proper name before, goddamnit. Never.
Re: Burning Dreams (possible spoilers)
I find it a bit funny that the parts you say you enjoyed the most (the events on Talos IV) were actually the ones I found less captivating (aside from the final scene). I just found them to be a bit too predictable and sometimes unnecessary.
Re: Burning Dreams (possible spoilers)
I finished this book yesterday, and I must say I thoroughly enjoyed it. I really liked the character of Pike and enjoyed getting to know him over the course of his lifetime. Certainly, his debilitating accident with the delta rays was made even more tragic because we've grown to know the man he was beforehand. The direct tie-ins to the episode "The Menagerie" were fun too.
Great job! :thumbsup:
I finished this book yesterday, and I must say I thoroughly enjoyed it. I really liked the character of Pike and enjoyed getting to know him over the course of his lifetime. Certainly, his debilitating accident with the delta rays was made even more tragic because we've grown to know the man he was beforehand. The direct tie-ins to the episode "The Menagerie" were fun too.
Great job! :thumbsup:
Re: Burning Dreams (possible spoilers)
I agree that the framing story was necessary but I just found the flashbacks of Pike's life more interesting. I just didn't find that these scenes advanced the plot at all (I use the term "plot" loosely since the book was about the life and times of Christopher Pike). I don't think I really saw how it connected the stories all together besides having Vina asking "And then what happened?".
Re: Burning Dreams (possible spoilers)
RE: Crimison Tide and Burning Dreams
I've already stated that I felt the scene was similar in vein to the kind of command conflicts between junior and senior officers found in sea going tales.
However, having just recently re-watched CT last night, there is only a superfacial similarities -- i.e. the broken message. In CT, both officers were right and wrong. In BD, Pike was obviously right and his CO definitly up to no good.
That's why for my BD is more similar to the Hornblower book Lieutenant Hornblower and the incident aboard the Renown and Captain Sawyer, who was a bit off his rocker.
RE: Crimison Tide and Burning Dreams
I've already stated that I felt the scene was similar in vein to the kind of command conflicts between junior and senior officers found in sea going tales.
However, having just recently re-watched CT last night, there is only a superfacial similarities -- i.e. the broken message. In CT, both officers were right and wrong. In BD, Pike was obviously right and his CO definitly up to no good.
That's why for my BD is more similar to the Hornblower book Lieutenant Hornblower and the incident aboard the Renown and Captain Sawyer, who was a bit off his rocker.
Re: My review at Amazon.com....
Burning Dreams is a definate, and instant classic.
It's a terrific story with lots of emotional impact.
It's a terrific Star Trek story told in its best traditions.
It's a terrific extrapolation and revision (Talosians) of a classic Star Trek episode.
While I did enjoy the father/son dynamic, the most powerful aspect of the book for me was the Pike/Vina connection (especially with the insight into Vina) and their impact on Talosian society. Simply outstanding.
I also thoroughly enjoyed the Siddhe character and her Argelian background. MWB has a way of connecting me to the TOS I grew up with. It's an uncanny level of familiarity. I feel as if I'm watching TOS as I did decades ago. I don't know what it is, and how she does it, but I love it!
Golden Age indeed!
Bravo Margaret! Here's hoping for lots more Trek from her.
Burning Dreams is a definate, and instant classic.
It's a terrific story with lots of emotional impact.
It's a terrific Star Trek story told in its best traditions.
It's a terrific extrapolation and revision (Talosians) of a classic Star Trek episode.
While I did enjoy the father/son dynamic, the most powerful aspect of the book for me was the Pike/Vina connection (especially with the insight into Vina) and their impact on Talosian society. Simply outstanding.
I also thoroughly enjoyed the Siddhe character and her Argelian background. MWB has a way of connecting me to the TOS I grew up with. It's an uncanny level of familiarity. I feel as if I'm watching TOS as I did decades ago. I don't know what it is, and how she does it, but I love it!
Golden Age indeed!
Bravo Margaret! Here's hoping for lots more Trek from her.
Re: My review at Amazon.com....
I guess it's because I grew up with it, too. Heck, there was a point where I'd seen those reruns so many times I could identify a TOS episode two seconds in, before Kirk even started the Captain's Log entry, simply by the color of the planet and whether the Enterprise was moving left-to-right or right-to-left.
I guess it's because I grew up with it, too. Heck, there was a point where I'd seen those reruns so many times I could identify a TOS episode two seconds in, before Kirk even started the Captain's Log entry, simply by the color of the planet and whether the Enterprise was moving left-to-right or right-to-left.
Re: My review at Amazon.com....
I can still do that. It frightens my wife.
garamet said:
Heck, there was a point where I'd seen those reruns so many times I could identify a TOS episode two seconds in, before Kirk even started the Captain's Log entry, simply by the color of the planet and whether the Enterprise was moving left-to-right or right-to-left.
I can still do that. It frightens my wife.
Re: My review at Amazon.com....
I love her anyway.
My mother can do that with Brady Bunch episodes.KRAD said:
^ I can do that with TOS episodes and many TNG and DS9 episodes. Also M*A*S*H, West Wing, and Homicide episodes.....
I love her anyway.
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