That's a good way to look at it, I think, and they're all good and valid points.
Building the Mighty Mushroom - Spacedock
- Thread starter BolianAuthor
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That's a good way to look at it, I think, and they're all good and valid points.
Saquist
Commodore
I think that ShinRa might have implied (although I could be mistaken) that the station in question (the one from the game) was a 'base design' which was built upon as time went on until SF decided to stop the 'evolution' in TMP (and simply could have enlarged the 'end result' for TNG era in systems outside SOL - although we have no way of knowing if the shrooms outside of SOL were in fact larger or just had larger doors to accommodate ships like the Galaxy class).
The actual construction of 'added modules' would probably take a relatively small amount of time.
So the mushroom star-base could be a design that evolved over a course of century (though I think someone already proposed this very idea before here on TrekBBS).
The actual construction of 'added modules' would probably take a relatively small amount of time.
So the mushroom star-base could be a design that evolved over a course of century (though I think someone already proposed this very idea before here on TrekBBS).
That's what I was driving at; the design in Legacy didn't look like it was under construction, but more that it was the stalk of the shroom with some antennae. (It's been a while since I played and looked at it). The implication being this is what was there in the 2100s, but there was an expansion or series of expansions (the larger saucer, etc) to get the result of 2285, to meet additional or different operational demands.
On the other hand, a hub such as the mushroom star-base offers it's own advantages because you can close the internal upper section where ships are stored for experimental purposes, or simply to conceal construction of new ships.
Furthermore, that station is a city in space.
Realistically it would be able to house at least 100 000 people at any given time (it's certainly big enough to accommodate the number in question).
With such a large hub at your disposal, you easily create a multi-purpose facility (not that I'm saying other bases aren't) and staging grounds at the same time.
Ds9 also served most of those functions, but was quite limited in accommodations and internal space.
^^ I've suggested it before but I think that Spacedock is like an airport, everything and everyone who wants to go to Earth will first have to go through Spacedock not only as a security measure but also to prevent an enormous trafic jam in orbit and inside Earth's atmosphere...
That might have been the original idea behind it, but honestly, I think it helps regulate the traffic in question instead of everyone having to go directly to spacedock first (in addition to being construction/repair facility).
You realize of course that processing extreme numbers of individuals on such a station who are just on their way to Earth is not exactly doable.
Scanning the ship as it approaches, transmitting one's ID and speaking to an individual for confirmation is easier instead of docking your ship with the space-dock.
Besides, you could have a million ships in orbit without creating a clutter any-time soon.
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^^ I'm not sure that there is actually that much trafic to Earth, usually the Enterprise is the only starship in range when something nasty happens.
That's usually a plot device (for obvious reasons) and probably not the actual state of affairs.
Besides, It might be the case in the early days of SF (say during the time of NX-01 Enterprise), however hardly a century or two later.
Usually the Enterprise is the only starship in range when AWAY from Earth.
Remember how even in Enterprise (Archer's time) when the Xindi weapon approached Earth?
Not a single ship to greet it apart from a lone Andorian warship.
And then, after the temporal Cold War was resolved, you have 'dozens' of ships heading toward Enterprise (realistically, it should have been 'dozens of ships heading towards the Xindi weapon').
Most spacecraft probably wouldn't need docking facilities, let alone enclosed ones, to offload their passengers or cargo. OTOH, it might be a good idea not to beam most of that directly to or from Earth's surface, not only for reasons of traffic control and customs, but also because transporters have the potential to do harm. It would make sense to concentrate the operation of orbit-to-surface transporters at inhabited planets to specific spots and to specific, well-trained operators of traceable culpability.
The sheer internal volume of Spacedock would suffice for letting it handle most if not all traffic to and from Earth, via transporter relays. The ability to operate (house, replenish, perhaps repair?) shuttlecraft, starships and things in between would be a bonus, not a necessity.
Timo Saloniemi
The sheer internal volume of Spacedock would suffice for letting it handle most if not all traffic to and from Earth, via transporter relays. The ability to operate (house, replenish, perhaps repair?) shuttlecraft, starships and things in between would be a bonus, not a necessity.
Timo Saloniemi
If that is true, how did the Excelsior fit through the doors?
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tuchd/ch13/tuchd2495.jpg
There must be doors large enough for the Excelsior to leave Spacedock.
This shot...
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfshd/tsfshd0643.jpg
... suggests that there may be larger doors on the other side.
The doors are large enough in TSFS. Using a shot in TUC where the sizes between the models are totally different doesn't help.
The Enterprise doesn't look like it would be that snug of a fit:
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfshd/tsfshd0155.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfshd/tsfshd0156.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfshd/tsfshd0155.jpg
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfshd/tsfshd0156.jpg
Yes.
I read an article that said that if the movie Spacedock was scaled up so that it matched the scale it was in TNG - it would have something like 34 (or 36?) times the interior volume!!!
The original Spacedock is *already* freakin' huge...that's just...insane.
Like I said before, I would rather prefer to pretend that the Starbases we saw in TNG were either the same size as Spacedock (despite what we saw on screen) and just had larger doors installed...or that they were stand-in's for *similar* mushroom-style docks that were bigger - but not *exactly* the same as Earth's Spacedock. I mean, in TOS: Remastered we already saw a Vanguard-style station (albeit scaled-*down* this time) substituted for a re-used K-7...so what we see on the TV isn't what is "really", "actually" there (so to speak) but just an interpretation on it...maybe in some hypothetical future remastered TNG we could see different stations substitute in a similar manner...
I mean...it's all just fantasy anyway - not "historical documents" - so we can imagine what we want.
What I think would be a cool exercise is to see fan designs for a TNG-era Earth Spacedock that was expanded - had *exterior* extensions added on - to handle more, and larger, TNG-era ships. I can see additions fitting bellow the mushroom cap - perhaps going out from it - that would fit up to 6 Galaxy-class ships (or several smaller vessels each it they were like arms that went out from bellow the mushroom)...and in the cylindrical section just above the bottom sphere, I could see a ring and arm section added that could accommodate many more ships, docked externally...
(I wish I had the drawing or computer modeling skills to build what I'm trying to visualize here...)
The original Spacedock is *already* freakin' huge...that's just...insane.
Like I said before, I would rather prefer to pretend that the Starbases we saw in TNG were either the same size as Spacedock (despite what we saw on screen) and just had larger doors installed...or that they were stand-in's for *similar* mushroom-style docks that were bigger - but not *exactly* the same as Earth's Spacedock. I mean, in TOS: Remastered we already saw a Vanguard-style station (albeit scaled-*down* this time) substituted for a re-used K-7...so what we see on the TV isn't what is "really", "actually" there (so to speak) but just an interpretation on it...maybe in some hypothetical future remastered TNG we could see different stations substitute in a similar manner...
I mean...it's all just fantasy anyway - not "historical documents" - so we can imagine what we want.
What I think would be a cool exercise is to see fan designs for a TNG-era Earth Spacedock that was expanded - had *exterior* extensions added on - to handle more, and larger, TNG-era ships. I can see additions fitting bellow the mushroom cap - perhaps going out from it - that would fit up to 6 Galaxy-class ships (or several smaller vessels each it they were like arms that went out from bellow the mushroom)...and in the cylindrical section just above the bottom sphere, I could see a ring and arm section added that could accommodate many more ships, docked externally...
(I wish I had the drawing or computer modeling skills to build what I'm trying to visualize here...)
Saquist
Commodore
I'm building this Mush Room in Sketchup...Designed it's parameters in Auto CAD
Because she isn't much bigger than the Enterprise. That is, she isn't taller or wider, as that parting shot from TUC nicely demonstrates. The E-D is enormously wider than either of the two... And taller, which is a problem because that's the dimension where even the E-nil was a really tight fit. Perhaps the Excelsior had to pitch up a bit to clear the doors?
Timo Saloniemi
