I should hope so. I mean the last time we saw him he was glowing and then dusted. Kinda hard to cone back from that.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel - First Time Viewer
- Thread starter tomalak301
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I should hope so. I mean the last time we saw him he was glowing and then dusted. Kinda hard to cone back from that.
I don't know if I'd really call it fate, since it was all specifically manipulated by an individual being. When I think of fate, I usually think of something that is beyond the power of any kind of individual being, something that is just always meant to be, no matter what anybody or anything does.
Sacrifice
This episode was basically Team Angel on the run in the sewers trying to get away from Jasmine. It was good to finally get a break (As wesley said) and a way to defeat her. However, Gunn was a little dumb in this episode, bringing Matthew back even though he was out long enough to maybe be infected. The demon Wesley found was kinda annoying, but looked creepy as hell, and he was the one who gave Wes the hint of what to do next.
I got some clarification on the whole explanation thing today and wondering if it undermined the series as a whole. What I learned was the crew did have free will and choices, but the being who spawned Jasmine used those as a way to impregnate Cordelia, even though the Connor thing was definitely supernatural. That makes me feel a little better about the series, and it's letting me like this storyline a little more. I still think they miscast Jasmine, but Torres is doing what she can with the material.
This episode was basically Team Angel on the run in the sewers trying to get away from Jasmine. It was good to finally get a break (As wesley said) and a way to defeat her. However, Gunn was a little dumb in this episode, bringing Matthew back even though he was out long enough to maybe be infected. The demon Wesley found was kinda annoying, but looked creepy as hell, and he was the one who gave Wes the hint of what to do next.
I got some clarification on the whole explanation thing today and wondering if it undermined the series as a whole. What I learned was the crew did have free will and choices, but the being who spawned Jasmine used those as a way to impregnate Cordelia, even though the Connor thing was definitely supernatural. That makes me feel a little better about the series, and it's letting me like this storyline a little more. I still think they miscast Jasmine, but Torres is doing what she can with the material.
You'll notice that this is approximately the same time that Joss cast Nathan Fillion onto Buffy. Firefly had just been canceled, and he was giving those actors work, as you'll see again next season...
Joss takes care of his own.
That was a few episodes ago. I’m two episodes away from the end of the season so Caleb is going to die soon. It was after the last Faith episode where Fillion came in.
Hence, "approximately".
Peace Out
Jasmine is dead and there was no hint of an amulet, but there was a lot of talk about champions this season. Now that I have the whole story and Angel even brought up the thing about free will, it actually wasn't that bad of a story. I still think Connor is a piece of shit (as in, he could have been written a whole lot better or they could have found a better, more convincing actor) but it wasn't bad. I wish more time had been focused on the hell dimension though. So Jasmine was a former power who turned evil. I wish we had actually met a good powers that be though. Also, I didn't even think of the idea that Skip might have been lying about the whole chain of events having to happen perfectly. Still, this episode helped diminish the notion that this series was all based on fate, so I was pleased about that.
Because Angel and Buffy are attached, the thing I had a big issue with on this story was for some reason Sunnydale was not affected by Jasmine's power. Yeah they had to deal with the First and bringing in the potential slayers, but this is kind of a plot hole that was hanging over the whole thing.
Jasmine is dead and there was no hint of an amulet, but there was a lot of talk about champions this season. Now that I have the whole story and Angel even brought up the thing about free will, it actually wasn't that bad of a story. I still think Connor is a piece of shit (as in, he could have been written a whole lot better or they could have found a better, more convincing actor) but it wasn't bad. I wish more time had been focused on the hell dimension though. So Jasmine was a former power who turned evil. I wish we had actually met a good powers that be though. Also, I didn't even think of the idea that Skip might have been lying about the whole chain of events having to happen perfectly. Still, this episode helped diminish the notion that this series was all based on fate, so I was pleased about that.
Because Angel and Buffy are attached, the thing I had a big issue with on this story was for some reason Sunnydale was not affected by Jasmine's power. Yeah they had to deal with the First and bringing in the potential slayers, but this is kind of a plot hole that was hanging over the whole thing.
Home
This was a pretty lowkey finale. The reason I quoted my post was because after I made it, I realized that the timing between Angel and Buffy was off. More than a few days past on Buffy while Angel was like a night or two. We got the file on Sunnydale and the amulet from WR & H, all nice and new and shiny. I don't think it changes my opinion on Chosen that much, but I'm glad to get the right context.
It's going to be interesting seeing Team Angel working at WR & H. I'm still looking for a catch as to why, and I'm not sure if I'm supposed to trust W & H now or not. They did give Angel the information to help Buffy and Connor is "fixed". Speaking on Connor, yeah he did get a better resolution than Cordelia did. Connor gets to have a correct young teenage life and Cordy is still in a coma. I actually smiled a little bit seeing Connor with the family. Maybe I can justify that by deleting the old connor (I just read on the Buffy Wiki, the father kills the son actually did come true, kinda) and putting in the nicer Connor.
In terms of the season, I actually thought this season was "ok", but not nearly as good as the first 3. I didn't like the direction they took Cordelia and I still think a better teen actor could have played Connor more menacing and not someone I wanted to punch in the face. Also, the Connor/Cordy sex scene was inexcusable and it was the second worst thing I saw in the Buffy universe. With that said, I actually liked the storyline with Jasmine and the penultimate episode did calm my fears that this series was all going to be based on fate rather than the choices we make. I was really glad Angel brought that up. I think in terms of the season segments, the one with the actual beast was my favorite, mainly because it brought Faith back and that storyline with Faith and Wesley was the best this season got.
Top 5 Season 4 episodes:
Salvage/Release/Orpheus (With Orpheus being my favorite episode of the season)
Spin the Bottle
Peace Out
Players
Inside Out
So now is the final season and I go out of town next Friday. I might be able to finish...
Jasmine I don’t think was supposed to be evil per se. She was was a power that be that was sick of siting on the sidelines watching humanity devour itself. So she became involved. Some have said with Buffy fighting the first evil that year Angel was fighting the first good.
Actually back in the day someone wrote a good fan fic conversation that Jasmine and the first had as their plans were coming to fruition at the same time. I believe that author insinuated that Jasmine knew what the first had planning/up to since Season 3 of Buffy and this was her counter plan to save us. Hence the powers making it snow in Sunnydale at just the right time.
Actually back in the day someone wrote a good fan fic conversation that Jasmine and the first had as their plans were coming to fruition at the same time. I believe that author insinuated that Jasmine knew what the first had planning/up to since Season 3 of Buffy and this was her counter plan to save us. Hence the powers making it snow in Sunnydale at just the right time.
But she was devouring humanity to survive. That seemed evil to me.
Jasmine used the tv to spread her word, though. By the time Jasmine went global, I think the power was already out in Sunnydale, so them never hearing about her makes sense to me. It's the rain of fire that I always found hard to justify.
Conviction
That felt like watching a different show. Instead of watching our team helping the helpless, they are part of Wolfram and Hart helping criminals get off. They are wondering why they are there, and I guess one of the storylines this season is why they are there to begin with. It also seemed lighter than the last few episodes, with Angel actually making some funnies against the Gunman and Charles Gun getting pumped full of Lawyer knowledge. Is this season going to be the Joss Whedon version of Boston Legal? I saw a little James Spader in Charles Gunn trying to get the guy off on a technicality.
We also saw some surprise returns. I didn't think I would see Harmony again, and I'm not sure how I feel about seeing Harmony as Angel's assistant. The episode also ends with the amulet glowing and rematerializing Spike. Looking forward to how that worked. I can't help but feel like now that Buffy is over and Angel is on it's own, they needed to bring in Buffy characters to get fans of that series to watch this series. I don't even know if you need to see the previous 4 seasons to get caught up to speed on what has been going on. This episode took care of that almost right away.
It was a decent start to the season. Little weird seeing Team Angel working at W & H, but I do like the character dynamics. Also, why kill of Lilah when you bring in a Liliah clone who is a lot younger?
That felt like watching a different show. Instead of watching our team helping the helpless, they are part of Wolfram and Hart helping criminals get off. They are wondering why they are there, and I guess one of the storylines this season is why they are there to begin with. It also seemed lighter than the last few episodes, with Angel actually making some funnies against the Gunman and Charles Gun getting pumped full of Lawyer knowledge. Is this season going to be the Joss Whedon version of Boston Legal? I saw a little James Spader in Charles Gunn trying to get the guy off on a technicality.
We also saw some surprise returns. I didn't think I would see Harmony again, and I'm not sure how I feel about seeing Harmony as Angel's assistant. The episode also ends with the amulet glowing and rematerializing Spike. Looking forward to how that worked. I can't help but feel like now that Buffy is over and Angel is on it's own, they needed to bring in Buffy characters to get fans of that series to watch this series. I don't even know if you need to see the previous 4 seasons to get caught up to speed on what has been going on. This episode took care of that almost right away.
It was a decent start to the season. Little weird seeing Team Angel working at W & H, but I do like the character dynamics. Also, why kill of Lilah when you bring in a Liliah clone who is a lot younger?
I understand your feelings about Cordelia. I felt similarly when I saw that season the first time. The thing to remember is that Cordy's final scene as a character was in Season 3. As for Conner, he was a tragic character in my opinion. In real life, I'm an educator and I've seen what much less can do to a teenager. IMO, based on his story he acted entirely in character. His final scene in season 4 made me cry. Kids don't act bad because they want to, they just don't have the tools to do better. The seduction of Conner on repeated viewings for me is pretty horrific and relatable. What adolescent in his position is not going to say no to Cordy when she wants to have sex.
As for FATE, it was not fate---it was the manipulation of a being of higher power. And that manipulation was locally based. Watching week by week at the time, it was obvious that everything going on with Angel was based in LA, not world wide. That said, like a Zombie apocalypse, the threat was real in that it started in LA but could have moved outward.
As for FATE, it was not fate---it was the manipulation of a being of higher power. And that manipulation was locally based. Watching week by week at the time, it was obvious that everything going on with Angel was based in LA, not world wide. That said, like a Zombie apocalypse, the threat was real in that it started in LA but could have moved outward.
Just Rewards
So the Amulet made Spike a ghost, and he's going between dimensions. I guess in the Buffy verse that's as good an explanation as any to bring him back. This was actually a pretty fun episode, and we learned Buffy decided to go to Europe after the events of Chosen. That's basically all this episode was, Spike all day and night. The stuff with the Nacromancer was good, if a bit irrelevant. I did like the plan to trick him with Spike entering his body though. That was fun.
So the Amulet made Spike a ghost, and he's going between dimensions. I guess in the Buffy verse that's as good an explanation as any to bring him back. This was actually a pretty fun episode, and we learned Buffy decided to go to Europe after the events of Chosen. That's basically all this episode was, Spike all day and night. The stuff with the Nacromancer was good, if a bit irrelevant. I did like the plan to trick him with Spike entering his body though. That was fun.
That amulet was the biggest deus-ex-machina EVER. Solved Buffy's problem with the uber-vamps, 'stored' Spike and brought him back... was the perfect tool to resolve a crisis AND bring back a popular character...
...and where the heck did it even come from in the first place?
...and where the heck did it even come from in the first place?
Well, the Senior Partners do work in mysterious ways and they did want Angel and crew to work there for whatever reason. Hopefully there is more to the amulet down the road. You're right though. It is still a big Deus-ex-machina.
Unleashed
I thought that episode was lovely. We meet Nina, who was bitten by a werewolf, who is now a werewolf herself. We also got more on Spike’s phasing in and out and Fred hopefully recommitting to the reason why that is the case. Also, to my surprise, John Billingsley (Who I don't know if I can look at the same way again after his appearance in Orville this last season
) was in this episode, pretty much playing Dr. Phlox without the make-up, at least until the end. I have to say though what cuts this episode back is the whole dinner scene and wanting to eat her which pretty much amounted to nothing, but the character dynamic in this one was pretty strong.
I thought that episode was lovely. We meet Nina, who was bitten by a werewolf, who is now a werewolf herself. We also got more on Spike’s phasing in and out and Fred hopefully recommitting to the reason why that is the case. Also, to my surprise, John Billingsley (Who I don't know if I can look at the same way again after his appearance in Orville this last season
) was in this episode, pretty much playing Dr. Phlox without the make-up, at least until the end. I have to say though what cuts this episode back is the whole dinner scene and wanting to eat her which pretty much amounted to nothing, but the character dynamic in this one was pretty strong.
I actually got a kick out of Harmony this season.
Oh, and just as a little FYI, Hell Bound, the fourth episode of the season, is one of the creepiest episodes in the entire Buffyverse, some parts of it freak me out a little bit every time I watch it.
If you are curious to see where Connor grew up, Angel & Faith, one of the canon post-TV series comics did have the characters go to Quor'toth, and we got to see what it looked like.
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