Buffy season nine discussion thread
- Thread starter Turtletrekker
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That's a fair point too. I keep forgetting when the season is going to end (I do recall they put a cap on the issues this time around). I've had plenty of chances to drop both books before and haven't so I'm in for the long haul.
Angel and Faith #20 was fantastic. Spike and Faith's quips back and forth were great, and Rebecca Issacs art was awesome as usual. Things seem to be reset a lot on this book, and what I mean is that Angel and Faith will be thrust into some kind of dire situation, there will be a lot of yapping about the Giles resurrection plot, and then they'll get out of that situation and we will continue on with it. Angel has STILL yet to realize that this probably isn't a good idea, even with everyone at one point or another that it isn't...and now he's managed to get Faith on his side, because they're so close. I still have a bad feeling this isn't going to turn out very well. Still those points aside, I enjoyed this issue a lot. Issacs will be doing the art for the remaining ten issues as well which is good news.
The Buffy Season Nine Wonder Con panel... the final arc of Angel and Faith is called "The Core" and the season nine finale will feature the reunion of the Scoobies.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=44684
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=44684
No other responses for a while so I guess I am gutting it alone now, but I figured that would probably be the case the way this season has progressed.
Just finished issue 20...and wow. This issue was probably my favourite issue in a while. Willow returns from her mini-series and possessing partial magic, and a refurbished Scythe. Xander continues to spiral down lost and feeling useless as we flashback to last season's finale and learn that he snapped and nearly attempted to kill Angel. Chambliss has teased that this season finale's all about reuniting the Scoobies we saw the start of that. We've seen Dark Willow of course...could this be Dark Xander? Or perhaps Xander double agenting here or something? Nevertheless things have started to get very interesting, and the Karl Moline art was great in this issue (except for Andrew who for some reason keeps looking different every time I see him and looks nothing like Tom Lenk).
Just finished issue 20...and wow. This issue was probably my favourite issue in a while. Willow returns from her mini-series and possessing partial magic, and a refurbished Scythe. Xander continues to spiral down lost and feeling useless as we flashback to last season's finale and learn that he snapped and nearly attempted to kill Angel. Chambliss has teased that this season finale's all about reuniting the Scoobies we saw the start of that. We've seen Dark Willow of course...could this be Dark Xander? Or perhaps Xander double agenting here or something? Nevertheless things have started to get very interesting, and the Karl Moline art was great in this issue (except for Andrew who for some reason keeps looking different every time I see him and looks nothing like Tom Lenk).
I have caught up now (skipped the Willow series still, I'll wait for the TPB) and missed Angel #19, but just got #20 of both Angel and Buffy.
Mmm, the flashback to the S8 finale as you say was good, but the issue seemed to end before I noticed it had even started somewhat. Plus Scott Allie kept going on about in the letters every issue for aaaages about how we'd eventually learn what was up with Xander... I dunno, I guess I was just expecting more than "he's pissed off."
I don't know what happened in the Willow series, but I see the Scythe is back together and now red, so it fits in continuity with the scythe from the Fray series (also red, unlike the TV show one which wasn't all red)
Mmm, the flashback to the S8 finale as you say was good, but the issue seemed to end before I noticed it had even started somewhat. Plus Scott Allie kept going on about in the letters every issue for aaaages about how we'd eventually learn what was up with Xander... I dunno, I guess I was just expecting more than "he's pissed off."
I don't know what happened in the Willow series, but I see the Scythe is back together and now red, so it fits in continuity with the scythe from the Fray series (also red, unlike the TV show one which wasn't all red)
I'm still reading season 9, I just didn't feel a strong urge to come here to post, since it's been very lackluster the whole season. The latest Buffy issue, however, was the best one since... well, a very long time in any case. Perhaps the best since 9.01. Finally the season's plot seems to be shaping up... it only took them 4/5 of the season to get there! 
It's good to see them addressing the Twilight fiasco instead of tiptoeing around it and focusing on the smashing of the Seed instead. (Severin's lines about it felt almost like a 4th wall, the comic finally addressing what the fans have been saying.) I continue to be unimpressed with the bland way Buffy has been written by Chambliss, but at least Xander was written rather well.
Regarding Angel & Faith, I hope Gage never writes Spike again, because he writes him really badly. It's like he struggles with writing him, so he writes him as a caricature, exaggerating his smoking, drinking, British slang and shagging. I hated the way they used Harmony and reversed the little, but significant development her dynamic with Spike had in AtS season 5 (i.e. when Spike realized he had been an ass to her and stopped using her).
The Spike title was nicely written and drawn, much better than Spike on A&F was, but it seems to have been ultimately pointless, since the Spike we saw on A&F doesn't seem to have gotten any character development and has only regressed. The Willow title had more to do with the plot of the season, and had some developments for Willow, but I didn't like the pointless resurrection of yet another character from the show
It's good to see them addressing the Twilight fiasco instead of tiptoeing around it and focusing on the smashing of the Seed instead. (Severin's lines about it felt almost like a 4th wall, the comic finally addressing what the fans have been saying.) I continue to be unimpressed with the bland way Buffy has been written by Chambliss, but at least Xander was written rather well.Regarding Angel & Faith, I hope Gage never writes Spike again, because he writes him really badly. It's like he struggles with writing him, so he writes him as a caricature, exaggerating his smoking, drinking, British slang and shagging. I hated the way they used Harmony and reversed the little, but significant development her dynamic with Spike had in AtS season 5 (i.e. when Spike realized he had been an ass to her and stopped using her).
The Spike title was nicely written and drawn, much better than Spike on A&F was, but it seems to have been ultimately pointless, since the Spike we saw on A&F doesn't seem to have gotten any character development and has only regressed. The Willow title had more to do with the plot of the season, and had some developments for Willow, but I didn't like the pointless resurrection of yet another character from the show
that Willow killed.
Yeah I mentioned Gage's difficulty with writing Spike. Given the fact that he's not watched the show before, he probably only has a rudimentary knowledge of the character either given to him by Joss or Chambliss or someone tossed in an episode and that's what he got out of it. It was pretty bad, while somehow he's managed to capture Angel and Faith's characterizations bang on. It was weird.
Finished reading Angel and Faith #21...didn't really think much of this issue...Gage really can't write Spike but that's no longer a problem since Spike left to go help Buffy with the Dawn issue, interesting that already Angel and Faith don't remember who Dawn is, and obviously something has gone wrong with the spell to resurrect Giles (as I knew it would) guess we'll find out next issue what!
I actually have no clue. Originally I thought we might get zombie Giles, but that's already kind of been done now. I'm guessing that they somehow transported Giles to a different plane? Now they'll have to get him back somehow. I really don't know what to expect.
Well...Giles has returned and he's not quite himself 
Angel and Faith #22 was fantastic. I thought Giles wouldn't turn out exactly the way he was before, and wasn't disappointed on that front. The resurrection spell worked, but thanks to his Great Aunts he has returned in the form of a 12 year boy. He has all the memories of his past self, including everything that Angel and Faith have accomplished this season...but just as a 12 year old. First thing he did is lecture Angel on his plan in the first place, then had a nice and couple funny moments with Faith before preparing them for the fight against Whistler, Pearl, and Nash. This was probably the best issue in a while. I think we're a couple issues away from the season finale now.
Angel and Faith #22 was fantastic. I thought Giles wouldn't turn out exactly the way he was before, and wasn't disappointed on that front. The resurrection spell worked, but thanks to his Great Aunts he has returned in the form of a 12 year boy. He has all the memories of his past self, including everything that Angel and Faith have accomplished this season...but just as a 12 year old. First thing he did is lecture Angel on his plan in the first place, then had a nice and couple funny moments with Faith before preparing them for the fight against Whistler, Pearl, and Nash. This was probably the best issue in a while. I think we're a couple issues away from the season finale now.
Really? I thought it was a jump-the-shark moment. They've really made death meaningless now, they've resurrected everyone: Warren (not literally), the Master, Rack (also not literally), and now Giles. There were hints that something awful would happen if they tried to resurrect Giles, and then this? What's so bad about him being in a 12-year old body, when his mind is the same? Unless he doesn't grow up, it's something many middle-aged people dream of, a chance to be young and live a whole life again. This is just done for comedy, and I'm sick and tired of his title's juvenile farces.Well...Giles has returned and he's not quite himself
It also doesn't make any sense. They kept Giles' body intact, it would make a lot more sense if he had been resurrected with the body he had when he died, but a mind of a 12-year old and memories he had back then. Now that could have been really problematic for him and everyone. Right now the biggest inconvenience is... that he can't help staring at Faith's breasts?
Also, Giles tells Faith she's doing all right? By blindly following Angel's every whim? It's funny that Faith ranted a few issues ago, when Alistair was revealed to have an agenda, that old guys are constantly using her daddy issues to manipulate and use her, but she doesn't notice the oldest guys of them all who's doing it right now. If Giles had told her that she doesn't need any father figure and she can be independent, that's great, but she hasn't been acting independently at any point in this series.
We're not quite done the season yet so I think it's a little early to say they've jumped the shark and rendered death meaningless. I suspect that this is not going to stick, given how erratic magick has been, and technically this should not have happened at all. I don't blame the Great-Aunts for being nostalgic regarding their idealized version of their great-nephew. I also have a feeling we're going to end on a cliffhanger of some kind. I don't know what...some of this season has been predictable, and some of it hasn't. I can't help but feel like Gage is working towards something else we've not been paying attention to. I don't know what...but I think the season finale (at least the final part of the season finale arc) will be more than what we've been given. Otherwise, yes I will agree that this would be disappointing, but I'm not quite ready to dismiss it yet.
Gage reveals that it was Joss who suggested that Giles returned as a 12 year old. I wonder if this would have happened in "Ripper" as the season one finale?
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=45925
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=45925
Haven't posted in a while given everyone's discontent with this season and wanted to wait until we reached each books season finale to post. Angel and Faith #25 was quite good in my opinion as the season wrapped up. Whistler I suppose redeems himself by sacrificing himself to stop the "magic" bomb for lack of a better word. Faith decides to leave Angel but promises to come back, and we're teased of a possible relationship. Giles predictably decides to leave to return to Buffy (I assume we will see him in Buffy's season finale) Faith is not happy about this. I think she was expecting him to accompany her. Giles' Aunts are interviewed on television for their roles.
All in all this was a pretty frustrating book at times...but I still preferred it over the main book. I think the conclusion of Buffy Season Nine is in two weeks? I don't remember. It should be interesting to see what happens in Angel and Faith "Season two".
All in all this was a pretty frustrating book at times...but I still preferred it over the main book. I think the conclusion of Buffy Season Nine is in two weeks? I don't remember. It should be interesting to see what happens in Angel and Faith "Season two".
I did a marathon read of the last 12 issues of A&F and enjoyed it. Waiting for Buffy to wrap up before doing the same with that book.
I don't think there will be Angel and Faith season 2. Faith is going to San Francisco to work with Kennedy. But I have no idea what the heck they'll do with Angel next season. Which characters will be in his title? What will be his story? Even Giles doesn't mind that Angel murdered him. His relationship with Connor was written as perfect and saccharine sweet and really boring. He and Gunn also have no issues and were boring together. The less said about how Spike was written in A&F, the better, so I hope there are no Spike/Angel interactions if Gage is writing them. Nadira is the only character who could bring something interesting, but again, not with this kind of writing. The entire season we were being told that Nadira is so "full of hate" and that's so bad, because... she's angry that her sister Slayers were murdered. And that's bad. Or something. Whereas Angel is such an awesome guy because he feels kinda bad for participating in the mass murder of the Slayers and other people, although he doesn't really assume responsibility, or learn from his mistakes. M-kay...
Going into this title, they had a potential for a terrific story, but they completely squandered it. This entire season seemed to be an attempt to either retcon what happened in season 8 or tell us that it doesn't matter, because Angel is a terrific guy who shouldn't feel guilty for anything, and that's because every character tells him so. Even Giles doesn't mind having been murdered. (Seriously, is Gage such a bad writer that he really thinks that the way to make a character more sympathetic is to have everyone go out of their way to tell him how awesome he is and that he shouldn't feel bad? That's certain to produce the exact opposite effect. It's when characters have to deal with being hated and blamed by everyone that they start being more sympathetic.) When they dealt with the Twilight fiasco, they did it through Whistler rather than Angel. As a result, Whistler was the only character with any kind of development and arc. Angel had zero development. Gage apparently thinks that Angel is always awesome no matter what and anyone who doesn't recognize that is bad and full of hate (like Nadira). OK, so what's the story? It looked like the story is going to be about Angel repeating the same mistakes (obsessively trying to resurrect Giles), and that this is going to lead to him doing some real soul-searching. But apparently not. The message of Angel & Faith is... that it's really good to get obsessive about doing one thing, as if it's going to erase all your mistakes? I don't know.
Gage has managed to make Angel such a boring character. A poster on Buffyforums is watching AtS for the first time (she's only seen season 5 before) and has a thread about it, and it's reminding me what an interesting, complex character Angel was in the show.
The entire Buffyverse season 9 reminds me of what Heroes became after season 1. There's no continuity and consistency in character behavior. Death has become a joke, since no major-ish character ever really dies; expect everyone to get resurrected, or turn out to not really have been dead at all. As for the extras, their deaths seem to matter so little that they get forgotten and ignored all the time. Nothing anyone does seems to have any consequences, with the Reset Buttons galore, all the time. There's no rhyme or reason to the story. (The difference is that Heroes, even at its worst, never got this boring.)
Going into this title, they had a potential for a terrific story, but they completely squandered it. This entire season seemed to be an attempt to either retcon what happened in season 8 or tell us that it doesn't matter, because Angel is a terrific guy who shouldn't feel guilty for anything, and that's because every character tells him so. Even Giles doesn't mind having been murdered. (Seriously, is Gage such a bad writer that he really thinks that the way to make a character more sympathetic is to have everyone go out of their way to tell him how awesome he is and that he shouldn't feel bad? That's certain to produce the exact opposite effect. It's when characters have to deal with being hated and blamed by everyone that they start being more sympathetic.) When they dealt with the Twilight fiasco, they did it through Whistler rather than Angel. As a result, Whistler was the only character with any kind of development and arc. Angel had zero development. Gage apparently thinks that Angel is always awesome no matter what and anyone who doesn't recognize that is bad and full of hate (like Nadira). OK, so what's the story? It looked like the story is going to be about Angel repeating the same mistakes (obsessively trying to resurrect Giles), and that this is going to lead to him doing some real soul-searching. But apparently not. The message of Angel & Faith is... that it's really good to get obsessive about doing one thing, as if it's going to erase all your mistakes? I don't know.
Gage has managed to make Angel such a boring character. A poster on Buffyforums is watching AtS for the first time (she's only seen season 5 before) and has a thread about it, and it's reminding me what an interesting, complex character Angel was in the show.
The entire Buffyverse season 9 reminds me of what Heroes became after season 1. There's no continuity and consistency in character behavior. Death has become a joke, since no major-ish character ever really dies; expect everyone to get resurrected, or turn out to not really have been dead at all. As for the extras, their deaths seem to matter so little that they get forgotten and ignored all the time. Nothing anyone does seems to have any consequences, with the Reset Buttons galore, all the time. There's no rhyme or reason to the story. (The difference is that Heroes, even at its worst, never got this boring.)
Fascinating post, and I agree with some of it. I think Angel and Faith was extremely uneven for most of its run. I think the second half of the book was the strongest. I have mentioned this before many times, I think my main problem was with how Gage kept having Angel justify his actions over and over again as almost he was convincing himself that what he was doing was okay. It was very frustrating. Any time a character challenged Angel about he was doing they'd just accept it and continue on. I'm not expressing myself correctly, but I think you guys understand.
You maybe right about a season two. There doesn't seem to be much else to do. Angel is once again in flux again as a character and now with nothing to do now that he has resurrected Giles. Unless something major happens in the Buffy finale to changes things. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
You maybe right about a season two. There doesn't seem to be much else to do. Angel is once again in flux again as a character and now with nothing to do now that he has resurrected Giles. Unless something major happens in the Buffy finale to changes things. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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