Buffy season nine discussion thread
- Thread starter Turtletrekker
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Meh. I'm now starting to feel like the rest of you in the thread who have given up. issue twelve was uninteresting. At least with last season we had a direction that we were constantly moving forward towards. This we started somewhere, but now we've kind of lost track of that focus it seems. Angel and Faith is a whole lot more entertaining right now.
Count me in as lost interest too. I flicked through Buffy #11 last week in the comic store, and looked at the last page... the big revelation was "we work for Wolfram & Hart."
...erm, we already knew that thanks to the solicitations and issue info. Rubbish. And then there was a big queue so I didn't bother buying it.
Enjoyed A&F #11, but I'd heard #12 was a letdown as well so didn't even looking for that.
With only 25 issues instead of s8's 40 you'd think things might actually happen sooner. The first 10 of A&F just seemed to keep going round and round with the same old schtick, and while I enjoyed Buffy s9 at first, the whole Buffy robot double thing was just awful.
...erm, we already knew that thanks to the solicitations and issue info. Rubbish. And then there was a big queue so I didn't bother buying it.
Enjoyed A&F #11, but I'd heard #12 was a letdown as well so didn't even looking for that.
With only 25 issues instead of s8's 40 you'd think things might actually happen sooner. The first 10 of A&F just seemed to keep going round and round with the same old schtick, and while I enjoyed Buffy s9 at first, the whole Buffy robot double thing was just awful.
Issue 12 was the dullest, most uneventful issue so far.
I'm not a big fan of Angel & Faith either - it's just Gage trying to throw in as many possible guest spots by Buffyverse characters, which obviously gets people happy (as opposed to the Buffy book losing more and more main characters), but when you look past that, nothing of note has actually happened there either. Add to that that the annoying attempts to retcon/ignore the implications of Angel's actions in season 8 has been , and the characterization of Angel which is so bland and cardboard. They've been doing their best to focus on Angel killing Giles (something he did while possessed), instead of everything else he did prior to that (and which lead to that), and I get the impression that we're supposed to just take from all this that Angel is so noble for feeling guilty. At the moment I'm not sure which is worse and blander, the characterization of Buffy in her book or Angel in his.
And what about the "social commentary" - first we get a stab at the Kardashians and similar celebrities in A&F with Harmony's issue, now in the latest issue of Buffy we get a stab at Facebook... Bleh, how deep and edgy.
It's been a long time since I've actually loved an issue of either book. Let's hope that things pick up, or that the Spike and Willow minis are better than this.
I'm not a big fan of Angel & Faith either - it's just Gage trying to throw in as many possible guest spots by Buffyverse characters, which obviously gets people happy (as opposed to the Buffy book losing more and more main characters), but when you look past that, nothing of note has actually happened there either. Add to that that the annoying attempts to retcon/ignore the implications of Angel's actions in season 8 has been , and the characterization of Angel which is so bland and cardboard. They've been doing their best to focus on Angel killing Giles (something he did while possessed), instead of everything else he did prior to that (and which lead to that), and I get the impression that we're supposed to just take from all this that Angel is so noble for feeling guilty. At the moment I'm not sure which is worse and blander, the characterization of Buffy in her book or Angel in his.
And what about the "social commentary" - first we get a stab at the Kardashians and similar celebrities in A&F with Harmony's issue, now in the latest issue of Buffy we get a stab at Facebook... Bleh, how deep and edgy.
It's been a long time since I've actually loved an issue of either book. Let's hope that things pick up, or that the Spike and Willow minis are better than this.
Yeah the creation of "Tincan" should have been fun and engaging yet it felt like a forced "social commentary" that was dragged out and felt irrelevant. I think this season is suffering from not having top notch guest writers like last season did. There is something missing from this season as I mentioned before. It's not as entertaining. Hopefully that will change...but it's kind of been in a lag at this point.
Just finished reading the first issue of Spike, and it's fantastic. The art is great and the writing is awesome...who knew the guy responsible for the disaster that was Curse of the Mutants last year could write this good? I'll be following this.
Yeah, it's a really nice issue. It's hard to judge how good the entire arc would be until we read the rest of the issues, but it's a nice beginning. Spike is well written; I love the bugs and the writing for them is really funny, and it was great to see Spike protective of them.
So far, the writer seems to get Spike; I knew he said he was a fan, but being a fan of the character doesn't mean you will write them well (see: Brian Lynch, many fanfic writers) but Gischler seems to be doing a rather good job so far. Certainly better than Chambliss and Allie have been doing writing Buffy, or Gage has been doing writing Angel, though that may be jumping the gun, judging by just one issue. (I thought Angel & Faith would be great and an honest exploration of Angel's character mistakes after the first issue *sigh*). The art is lovely and Spike looks like himself (I wouldn't say that Buffy's book has been bad an that account, but it has been hit and miss; Jeanty in particular can draw Spike really well in some panels but awfully in others. Sometimes he draws Spike in a really ugly way and sometimes he makes him look 14-year old.)
So far, the writer seems to get Spike; I knew he said he was a fan, but being a fan of the character doesn't mean you will write them well (see: Brian Lynch, many fanfic writers) but Gischler seems to be doing a rather good job so far. Certainly better than Chambliss and Allie have been doing writing Buffy, or Gage has been doing writing Angel, though that may be jumping the gun, judging by just one issue. (I thought Angel & Faith would be great and an honest exploration of Angel's character mistakes after the first issue *sigh*). The art is lovely and Spike looks like himself (I wouldn't say that Buffy's book has been bad an that account, but it has been hit and miss; Jeanty in particular can draw Spike really well in some panels but awfully in others. Sometimes he draws Spike in a really ugly way and sometimes he makes him look 14-year old.)
Angel and Faith #13 was another great issue...once again these last two issues have actually felt like they were episodes of the show, also a little bit of a surprise as we find out that Whistler was behind the whole Twilight thing and is on a quest himself to make it still happen if I understood his conversation with Giles Aunts (who are my new favourite characters! I would have loved to seen them in the show!). Whistler is also working with or employing the two demon kids we've seen this season. The cliffhanger for this issue, while expected, was still pretty awesome. This book is finally getting good again, and I didn't even mention the great little quips between Angel and Faith all issue either until now!
^ We already knew that Whistler was behind it/supporting and still trying to make it happen in the very first issue of Angel & Faith.
I'd never thought I'd say that before the comics, but Whistler is making every issue he appears in more interesting. He's become a lot more interesting as a character since he was revealed to be a villain - though, of course, he wouldn't consider himself one. He's a "balance demon", which means that when evil is strong, he helps the good, but when good is strong, he helps evil... and in any case, doesn't seem to care about individual humans one bit - if a bunch of them have to die for the universe to 'evolve', so be it. Though he and Pearl and Nash weren't nearly as creepy here as in issue 1.
The part in Quor'toth was, surprisingly, dull by comparison. Instead of bringing out the darkness, the place seems to have made everyone want to hold hands and sing Kumbaya. Faith constantly telling Angel he's awesome and shouldn't feel bad about anything has gotten really old, and Connor and Angel are nauseatingly sweet and nice to each other these days, so much that it almost makes me wish Connor was still screwed up and hated Angel as he did pre-season 5, since that dynamic was a lot more interesting.
I hope the next issue will change that and bring some conflict.
I'd never thought I'd say that before the comics, but Whistler is making every issue he appears in more interesting. He's become a lot more interesting as a character since he was revealed to be a villain - though, of course, he wouldn't consider himself one. He's a "balance demon", which means that when evil is strong, he helps the good, but when good is strong, he helps evil... and in any case, doesn't seem to care about individual humans one bit - if a bunch of them have to die for the universe to 'evolve', so be it. Though he and Pearl and Nash weren't nearly as creepy here as in issue 1.
The part in Quor'toth was, surprisingly, dull by comparison. Instead of bringing out the darkness, the place seems to have made everyone want to hold hands and sing Kumbaya. Faith constantly telling Angel he's awesome and shouldn't feel bad about anything has gotten really old, and Connor and Angel are nauseatingly sweet and nice to each other these days, so much that it almost makes me wish Connor was still screwed up and hated Angel as he did pre-season 5, since that dynamic was a lot more interesting.
I hope the next issue will change that and bring some conflict.
This should be interesting.
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/gay-male-vampire-slayer-buffy-comic.html
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/gay-male-vampire-slayer-buffy-comic.html
^ This has already sparked a HUGE debate in fandom...
I don't see a problem, since it's not really changing the established mythology, i.e.
But some people are still worried about the "implications".
I'm waiting to see how it works out. There are lots of ways this can go right or go wrong.
The only thing that's frustrating is that Buffy's title has chased away almost every character important to Buffy, or relegated them to the background (we're still waiting for that Xander and Dawn storyline to start) and we'll have to wait quite a long time for them to come back. Meanwhile Angel & Faith seems to consist of various characters making hyped guest appearances which don't amount to much. Maybe because A&F is still selling much less than BtVS so they've been trying to prop up the sales? Despite the fact that BtVS's sales have dropped by some 800 copies from last month.
Latest sales (august):
97. Buffy season 9 - #9.12 - 26,569*
131. Spike #1 - 19,372
146. Angel & Faith #13 - 16,453
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/23854.html
* They listed the BtVS issue as "Freefall 12" instead of "Guarded pt 2."
I don't see a problem, since it's not really changing the established mythology, i.e.
he's not really a literal Slayer, just follows in their path.
I'm waiting to see how it works out. There are lots of ways this can go right or go wrong.
The only thing that's frustrating is that Buffy's title has chased away almost every character important to Buffy, or relegated them to the background (we're still waiting for that Xander and Dawn storyline to start) and we'll have to wait quite a long time for them to come back. Meanwhile Angel & Faith seems to consist of various characters making hyped guest appearances which don't amount to much. Maybe because A&F is still selling much less than BtVS so they've been trying to prop up the sales? Despite the fact that BtVS's sales have dropped by some 800 copies from last month.
Latest sales (august):
97. Buffy season 9 - #9.12 - 26,569*
131. Spike #1 - 19,372
146. Angel & Faith #13 - 16,453
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/23854.html
* They listed the BtVS issue as "Freefall 12" instead of "Guarded pt 2."
Specifically, the inclusion of a gay male character who is being called a "Slayer" (even though he's not technically) and what kind of implications that has, yada yada.
See it here.
Still not sure what the issue is.
A. They should read the article as it specifies the character isn't a Slayer, just a normal guy who slays vampires and would like to be a Slayer.
B. A gay character. Willow, Tara, Kennedy anyone?
C. A male gay character. If one finds a female gay character acceptable but not a male one, then I'd say that's maybe more stupid and offensive than just flat out not wanting any gay character.
That is all.
A. They should read the article as it specifies the character isn't a Slayer, just a normal guy who slays vampires and would like to be a Slayer.
B. A gay character. Willow, Tara, Kennedy anyone?
C. A male gay character. If one finds a female gay character acceptable but not a male one, then I'd say that's maybe more stupid and offensive than just flat out not wanting any gay character.
That is all.
They aren't annoyed that there is a gay male character, they're annoyed that a male character is being introduced with the title of Slayer, which other badass normals haven't been so far, and arguing whether it's only being done because he's gay, and whether this means equating gay men with women etc.
Personally, I think it's people making too much fuss and judging a story they haven't even read yet, but I'm just saying what they're debating.
To me it just seems like he's going to be almost like a Batman type character. A human with no powers who has earned his way to the title Slayer. I wonder who bestows him that title? This has the potential to make the series extremely interesting again in my opinion.
I did see this news elsewhere and seeing this thread, I decided to put into words the first opinion ive had on Buffy in a long while.
So what follows is my opinion.
You know who I feel bad for all of this, Gunn. If there was ever a guy who earnt the mentle of Slayer its Gunn, of course the Buffy verse was very different then, when the idea of 1 slayer still meant something (ok Faith and Kendra had both been seen, but this was along time before "every girl who could be a slayer, becomes a slayer" )
As there is no longer a "The Slayer" no chosen one, that will of course change things, but Gunn was killing vampires long before this, so really thats not important either. Billy will earn the mantle of slayer, but only in the eyes of Buffy, but the mantle is meaningless really Gunn was killing vampires without need Buffys respect.
So before I move on, a quick round up, the title "Slayer" does not mean what it used to, men have always been able to slay vampires, its also not something Buffy gets to decide.
What troubles me with this move, is really what troubled me with Buffys final episode, the idea of an army of slayers is nice, but in reality it would not end up like that. All it would create is young women with the urge to get into a fights, Buffy would not meet yet alone train the majority of them, which would most likely mean some vampire gets an easy slayer kill, or the woman, gets into one too many fights, and without the proper training gets beat, killed, or gets down a self destructive path landing her in jail or worse.
In Billys example we see the ill advised message that femininity means great fighting strength, a highly questionable message to send to anyone. You also have this idea that gay men, are feminine and the suggestion that deep down they just want to hang with the girls etc, which maybe true in some cases, but is an over used cliché in the media.
You could go as far as to say that gay men having to prove there femininity to some alpha female, to be accepted is backwards, and just as bad as more traditional forms of homophobia.
So backtracking to earlier in my post, now the slayer title is meaningless, and so many girls can be a slayer, obviously Buffy needs to train them to a certain level, before she sees there training as complete and them as fully disciplined slayers, capable of all those other things slayers need to do, more than just kicking and punching really hard, something of course that mirrored her early training, or for that matter any fighters training. If someone without the slayer magic, can pass that training, why not call them a slayer, be they, male, female, Klingon or Silurian
So in conclusion, I dont see the big fuss Buffy fandom is making, and far from empowering gay men, it may continue to stereotype them. I think an straight male slayer, one who actually is a slayer, would have been far more interesting.
That would be far worse and I'm sure the outcry would be far greater, as it should be, since it would completely overturn the mythology and premise the show was built on, that Slayers (actual Slayers, with superstrength and dreams etc., chosen to stand against the vampires and the demons etc.) are female.
My guess why Billy is called the Vampire Slayer in the title of the arc is because he models himself after the Slayers like Buffy - he's probably heard about them through the media. Holtz, Gunn etc. never aspired to be called Slayers or thought of Slayers as their role models.
Though there could be a transgender or transsexual real Slayer. That would be interesting. On the other hand, someone would probably complain that it sends the message that women who fight, who are athletic etc. are masculine. But someone will always complain about something, as we see now.
whilst I agree that it goes against the mythology of the series, we have gone past the "the chosen one" part of the mythology.
That said they should not do that, I just think it would be more interesting that this non slayer, slayer which whilst it attempts to send out a good message, ends up with a rather mixed one.
Of course if we go down the line, that gay men are femmine, and sometimes have the same quality's as a woman, and then you wonder if one might have the quality that women have, that mean that they (not men) are called as slayers. Making them eligible to be called, which I guess really does send out the wrong message ive suggested the storylines send outs.
Forgive me, I do not recall why the first slayer was chosen, why she used to fight vampires etc
Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season Nine Freefall #13: A decent conclusion to the Tincan arc...if a pretty predictable resolution. As I suspected this was just a means to once again reinforce to Buffy that she is indeed the Slayer. It would seem to be that sometimes she needs to do things that reminder of her purpose. It is beyond destiny now for her, it is purpose she craves and it would seem she has reclaimed that now. I actually liked Kennedy in this...then again I never had the big hate on for her that most fans have. Also the remark about Giles...I think I've mentioned this before...but she is not going to react very well about Angel's plans regarding Giles. She would not approve of them. Not even as a way for Angel to redeem himself.
Next week, I think is the second issue of Spike's book.
Next week, I think is the second issue of Spike's book.
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