If she hadn't died in the finale, I have a feeling they would have ended up getting back together at some point down the road.
Buffy Season 6: The Troubled Experiment
- Thread starter Joe Washington
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If she hadn't died in the finale, I have a feeling they would have ended up getting back together at some point down the road.
I did, however, have a problem with Xander and Anya not getting back together in season 7, even though they seemed to be going that way. When they had sex in "Touched", I thought that was it, and then she said it was the sign it was really over between them.
Yeah, I could buy Xander breaking off the marriage in Season 6 because of his past family issue had messed him up so badly - if - they reconciled down the road and ended up together, even if Anya still died at the end. Granted, I wasn't happy that they did't go through with it in Season 6, but I would have been somewhat comforted by the fact that at least 1 couple beat the odds and ended up together in Season 7. Course, according to Joss, "that would be boring". Maybe he's never been in a good relationship? They're certainly not boring.......
Totally. It was lazy writing.
The way they ended it in "Touched", together with everything else on the show, came dangerously close to suggesting that sex is always bad and destructive and that the only way to have a meaningful relationship is to just cuddle and have a spiritual connection.
Agreed. I'm re-watching Angel right now and just watched "Expecting" and at the end, Cordelia is running through the list of things she "learned" from her experience and one of them was "Sex is bad". She literally, onscreen in no uncertain terms says that, and I'm thinking "What???". Certainly sex too early with a person you don't really know and aren't really connected to can be very bad, but a blanket statement like that didn't make much sense. And really, in the Jossverse that almost always seems to be the point which I never understood. Sex between two caring individuals can be one of the most magnificent aspects our existence and yet on this show, it seems like every time a main character has sex, immediately, bad things happen. Not sure how to explain that as I know Joss is married, one would assume happily given how long he's been married.
Agreed. I'm re-watching Angel right now and just watched "Expecting" and at the end, Cordelia is running through the list of things she "learned" from her experience and one of them was "Sex is bad". She literally, onscreen in no uncertain terms says that, and I'm thinking "What???". Certainly sex too early with a person you don't really know and aren't really connected to can be very bad, but a blanket statement like that didn't make much sense. And really, in the Jossverse that almost always seems to be the point which I never understood. Sex between two caring individuals can be one of the most magnificent aspects our existence and yet on this show, it seems like every time a main character has sex, immediately, bad things happen. Not sure how to explain that as I know Joss is married, one would assume happily given how long he's been married.
Oh, I dunno. Willow and Oz had sex, and everything was fine for them (even if they did eventually break up). Angel and Darla had sex, which caused him to have his Epiphany that made him stop being a total douche. Wash and Zoe had sex plenty of times. So no, sex isn't always bad in the Whedon-verse.
What I did always find funny about Angel's character, though, was that one "moment of perfect happiness" meant orgasm. What, you can't be perfectly happy when you're not ejaculating?!
Well, no, that's really a misreading and a reduction of the truth, which the show itself is just as guilty of as anyone else.What I did always find funny about Angel's character, though, was that one "moment of perfect happiness" meant orgasm. What, you can't be perfectly happy when you're not ejaculating?!
In Buffy s2, it wasn't just sex with Buffy. It was the fact that he wasn't suffering endless guilt anymore because he loved her and she loved him back. He felt himself worthy of being loved for the first time in centuries. That was what did it.
In Angel s4, it took a fantasy of the perfect day in which Wes apologised, Gunn and Wes made friends again, he had a big exciting quest with the help of his son and his woman, he got to save the world and kill the bad guy, Connor came to his rescue and called him "Angel" instead of "Angelus," Cordelia said it didn't matter what he did as Angelus because she still loved him anyway, and then they had sex.
It's not just about the orgasm even though people talk about it like it is. After all, look at Angel s5 - he has sex with the werewolf girl often enough without losing his soul, because he's still miserable enough in other ways.
Well, I know, I realize it isn't JUST about the orgasm, but that does seem to be the trigger. He can be perfectly happy with everything going on in his life, but it's just not enough until he gets to have sex!
It speaks more to Angel's idea of happiness than anything else.
It speaks more to Angel's idea of happiness than anything else.
Speaking of which, I bet I'm far from the first to say this, but were the Gypsies incredibly stupid or what? If the purpose of the curse was to have Angel tortured for eternity, because he'll feel guilt over everything he did as a soulless vampire, then what was the happiness clause supposed to achieve? If he does become happy and loses his soul, it is not a punishment to him, because without his soul, he won't be tortured anymore - he'll just enjoy killing and torturing and wreaking havoc on everyone, as he did in S2 of BtVS. So the only thing that the clause achieves is having a dangerous monster back, and the ones that get punished would be all the innocent people he will hurt! 
I think it was there to prevent him from ever experiencing happiness. They probably thought his soul would be so tortured that he would never want to be a vampire again, so he would do all he could to refrain from ever being happy.
He was doing a pretty good job of it, too, until Whistler showed up and made him get over himself.
He was doing a pretty good job of it, too, until Whistler showed up and made him get over himself.
Season 6 was a mixed bag. I think that it had a strong opening ("Bargaining" up through "Tabula Rasa") and a strong finish ("Seeing Red" to "Grave"). It was just everything else in the middle that was mediocre. The overall direction and the arc of the season was good, IMO, but there were issues in the execution. Joss and co. knew where they were headed, but maybe got a little lost mid-way through the season and lost focus a bit. I would say that the same is true for season 7.
Season 6 wasn't one of the better seasons of Buffy though it did arguably have its moments, the "musical" episode being one of the most inventive things that the series ever did. It was, however, an extremely dark season and we saw our heroes go to some REALLY dark places in terms of their personality and actions, especially, of course, Willow. That being said, I actually thought though that Season 6 was the last time the series actually "felt" like the series. Season 7 wrapped things up o.k. but I didn't feel like it integrated as well with the rest of the series- both in terms of its characters, villains, and overall storyline.
agreed
Speaking of which, I bet I'm far from the first to say this, but were the Gypsies incredibly stupid or what? If the purpose of the curse was to have Angel tortured for eternity, because he'll feel guilt over everything he did as a soulless vampire, then what was the happiness clause supposed to achieve? If he does become happy and loses his soul, it is not a punishment to him, because without his soul, he won't be tortured anymore - he'll just enjoy killing and torturing and wreaking havoc on everyone, as he did in S2 of BtVS. So the only thing that the clause achieves is having a dangerous monster back, and the ones that get punished would be all the innocent people he will hurt!
I've answered his before as well, so I'll quote myself:
doubleohfive
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In retrospect I have come to appreciate season six very much. Obviously "Once More With Feeling" was a big hit, but a lot of little moments seeded throughout really worked well for me.
One of my favorite moments, and one that I still regret was only a cliffhanger for about five minutes (because the next episode aired right after it, on the same night) was at the end of the penultimate episode.
Very cool, very badass, and would have been great for a week-long discussion between episodes had they been separated thusly.
One of my favorite moments, and one that I still regret was only a cliffhanger for about five minutes (because the next episode aired right after it, on the same night) was at the end of the penultimate episode.
INT. MAGIC BOX
DARK WILLOW has kicked everybody's ass and is gloating:
DARK WILLOW: I'm more powerful than ever. Nothing you can do will stop me now!
Suddenly, she's ZAPPED by some powerful energy from off-screen. Off everyone's reaction we
CUT to the doorway where GILES is standing, returned from an extended absence since his last appearance!
GILES: I'd like to test that theory!
Smash to black!
DARK WILLOW has kicked everybody's ass and is gloating:
DARK WILLOW: I'm more powerful than ever. Nothing you can do will stop me now!
Suddenly, she's ZAPPED by some powerful energy from off-screen. Off everyone's reaction we
CUT to the doorway where GILES is standing, returned from an extended absence since his last appearance!
GILES: I'd like to test that theory!
Smash to black!
Very cool, very badass, and would have been great for a week-long discussion between episodes had they been separated thusly.
This question is for those who dissatisfied with Season 6:
What aspects of Season 6 do you think could have been altered or improved to make the season more of a successful experiment than a failed one?
What aspects of Season 6 do you think could have been altered or improved to make the season more of a successful experiment than a failed one?
I wouldn't say I was "dissatisfied" overall, but there are still some elements of Season 6 that were rather large mis-steps, IMO.
Some of these I've summarized in a previous post, but in the interests of a more in depth discussion, I'll expand on a few and add a couple of things I didn't care for.
1. Perhaps my biggest problem with the Season might have been how they broke Xander/Anya up. Granted, Xander's family had issues and Anya's "family" were a bunch of vengeance demons, so the wedding itself was always destined to be a disaster, but the way they just ended the relationship like that really bothered me. As DevilEyes correctly points out, this misstep would not have been such a big deal had they reconciled in Season 7, but the fact is, they didn't. My problems with this choice is that it as lazy writing....it wasn't an organic place to go with the story, they forced it to go there to artificially stir the pot in order (in their opinion) make things more interesting. It also speaks volumes to what the writers thought about anyone in the Jossverse's chances were to end up with someone you love and happy.
2. The magic = drugs crap. Seriously, not until they one-up themselves in Season 7 has such a storyline been pulled from someone's butt-cheek as this storyline. In Seasons 1-5 magic is treated and talked about how most people understand the concept of "magic".....a dangerous, but powerful responsibility, not to be taken lightly. However, for whatever reason they decided someone needed to go through an "addiction" storyline (which I thought was a good choice in theory) but decided to co-opt magic for the season as the metaphor for drugs. Completely unprecedented up to that point in the series and Season 7 wastes no time redacting the groundwork laid in Season 6 by reversing this mistake. Biggest problem here: Inconsistency with in-series continuity.
3. I could never *really* buy Buffy sleeping with Spike.Could be that I'm in the middle of Season 4 and it seems like such a reach from where the character are at, but it just didn't seem believable to me. Granted, they did establish that Buffy had a dark side and that the "demon" in her influenced who she was becoming, so I suppose one could argue the merits of their relationship from that angle. And yes, I know she tells herself she was only sleeping with Spike to feel something, anything, but surely Buffy could have found someone a bit more reasonable to scratch that particular itch if that's what she desired. Not a huge quibble with the season, but still.
I've got a few more thoughts and nits with the season, but overall those are my main complaints.
I think the magic 'addiction' storyline could have been much more interesting had they gone with it being an addiction to power, with Willow fixing things to her liking and crossing that line. Making magic equate to drugs took the responsibility away from Willow, in a way.
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