Buffy Season 6: The Troubled Experiment

[hyzmarca]

And yes, I know she tells herself she was only sleeping with Spike to feel something, anything, but surely Buffy could have found someone a bit more reasonable to scratch that particular itch if that's what she desired. Not a huge quibble with the season, but still.

There aren't very many men around who could scratch that particular itch and were as safe as Spike. She could have done a four-way with the Trio, I guess, but she didn't know who they were or how to contact them for most of the season.

The problem is that she wasn't looking for mere sex, she was looking for sex with someone she disliked, a villain who she should be fighting.
Spike was safe in that regard. She could be relatively certain that he wouldn't kill her in a moment of weakness and the chip meant that he also wouldn't be able to kill anyone else.

If she had picked someone else she would have picked a monster of the week most likely and that wouldn't have turned out very well.

For me, their verbal jabs was no more an indication that Buffy and Spike are attracted to each other than when Superman and Lex Luthor trade jabs and I hardly think there's some unrequited attraction there. (Good lord I hope not).

There is a lot a UST between Lex and Superman, especially on Lex's side. It varies from writer to writer and story to story, but you can see it in most modern depictions. In Smallville you can cut the homoeroticism with a knife. In the DCAU it's mostly subtle but it becomes quite obvious in some scenes. In the mainstream DCU Lex went so far as to have a kid with Superman.

I'm fairly certain that Clark could have saved both himself and Metropolis a lot of grief if he just bent Lex over a desk.

 

[DevilEyes]

And yes, I know she tells herself she was only sleeping with Spike to feel something, anything, but surely Buffy could have found someone a bit more reasonable to scratch that particular itch if that's what she desired. Not a huge quibble with the season, but still.

There aren't very many men around who could scratch that particular itch and were as safe as Spike. She could have done a four-way with the Trio, I guess, but she didn't know who they were or how to contact them for most of the season.

The problem is that she wasn't looking for mere sex, she was looking for sex with someone she disliked, a villain who she should be fighting.
Spike was safe in that regard. She could be relatively certain that he wouldn't kill her in a moment of weakness and the chip meant that he also wouldn't be able to kill anyone else.

If she had picked someone else she would have picked a monster of the week most likely and that wouldn't have turned out very well.

I'm pretty sure, depressed or not, she wouldn't have ever had a four-way with the Trio, or sex with any of them individually, or with one of those demons from the season opener, or with the Master if he somehow came back to un-life. Let's be honest here. She wouldn't have had sex with Spike, or kept coming back for more, if she wasn't attracted to him (however twisted that attraction was). It's just that in a normal situation and in a normal state of mind for Buffy, her moral compass would have been too strong to indulge in something like that. But in a depression... He had certainly always been able to draw some kind of strong reaction from her, even if it had been negative more often than positive.

And then she could hate herself some more and feel guilty and ashamed for being attracted to him and for enjoying the sex. But since he was "evil bloodsucking fiend", she could also hate and blame him for it (classic defense mechanism of repressed people), and tell herself that she was just "letting him do these things to me" because she "came back wrong", otherwise she would have felt anything like that, no sir. At least she could until "Dead Things", when she learned that she didn't come back wrong and started to be a little less in denial about the whole situation and her own responsibility for it.

I don't know how certain she could be that he wouldn't kill her in a moment of weakness, I'd say that was taking a bit of a risk (even agreeing to wear handcuffs), or rather, if she was relatively certain he wouldn't, that means she was putting quite a lot of trust in him, contrary to what she claimed. But then, he wasn't just her former mortal enemy, but also the guy who didn't let Dawn's secret out under torture from Glory, and the guy who had been patrolling with the Scoobies and taking care of Dawn for quite some time.

 

[Skywalker]

Buffy threads are always the best.

 

[RoJoHen]

Buffy threads are always the best.

It definitely says a lot for the show that it can still elicit such intense debate so long after it ended.

 

[DevilEyes]

Buffy threads are always the best.

Thread needs a bit more diversity, though. You know it's been too dominated by straight men the moment that people start debating why Buffy chose Spike rather than a MOW or the Trio to have guilty naughty inappropriate sex with.

 

[DigificWriter]

First off, Joss' level of direct involvement in a given season of Buffy is and never was an automatic indicator of the quality of said season(s) as perceived by the fandom at large. If you don't believe me, take a look at the prevailing fandom opinion of Season 4; it is as widely decried by the fandom at large as Season 6 is. Joss didn't actually step down as showrunner of BtVS until 2 seasons later, however, which invalidates/disproves your argument that it was his lack of direct involvement in Season 6 which caused that season to be negatively perceived by a large portion of the fandom.

Second, if Marti Noxon is/was solely to blame for the prevailing perceived crappiness of Season 6, please explain to me how Season 7 - on which she also served as showrunner - can be viewed by the fandom at large in an overall positive light. Granted, it isn't viewed by the fandom as positively as Seasons 2, 3, and 5, but it is viewed positively, in contrast to the prevailing negative opinion of Seasons 6 and (as mentioned above) 4.

I would dispute your assessments about the general fan perceptions of Seasons 4, 6, & 7. In my experience, Season 7 is regarded just as badly as Season 6, although for somewhat different reasons. Season 6 is criticized for lacking a significant exterior threat for our heroes. Season 7 had the First Evil, which was theoretically the most dangerous villain they ever fought. Unfortunately, it seemed thoroughly ineffective. It was telepathic and could manifest itself to anyone as any dead person at any time. It should have easily been able to drive all of the Scoobies insane. Instead, it was kind of an idiot. (It’s amazing to think that Angelus caused more psychological damage while trapped in a cell during the “Soulless”/”Calvary” 2-parter than the First caused over an entire season.)

As for Season 4, I think it’s terribly underrated. But even at its worst, it mostly just elicits a “Meh” from the fandom, whereas Season 6 elicits an “Eeeeewwwwww!!!!!”

I'm going to have to disagree with you on S7. I don't know if you were here while Buffy S7 was still on the air, but myself, Caligula, and another poster weren't shy about expressing our complete and utter distaste with S7 and what the writers were doing with the storylines, and we were in the distinct minority.

 

[Joe Washington]

I have to agree with DigificWriter. Season 7 may have had some good moments but overall it was a lukewarm final season unlike the final season of Angel.

 

[Too Much Fun]

There is a lot a UST between Lex and Superman, especially on Lex's side. It varies from writer to writer and story to story, but you can see it in most modern depictions. In Smallville you can cut the homoeroticism with a knife. In the DCAU it's mostly subtle but it becomes quite obvious in some scenes. In the mainstream DCU Lex went so far as to have a kid with Superman.

I'm fairly certain that Clark could have saved both himself and Metropolis a lot of grief if he just bent Lex over a desk.

You have got to be freaking kidding me. Where is the smilie? Please tell me this is a joke.

 

[Admiral_Young]

We're still on about Buffy and Spike? I must say that the above comment about Lex and Clark is an interesting take on their relationship, one I disagree with and don't see it all but interesting.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Well, unfortunately for you, they did go there.

Also mildly unfortunate for their DVD sales. Seasons 6 & 7 are the only two Joss Whedon DVDs I don't own.

First off, Joss' level of direct involvement in a given season of Buffy is and never was an automatic indicator of the quality of said season(s) as perceived by the fandom at large. If you don't believe me, take a look at the prevailing fandom opinion of Season 4; it is as widely decried by the fandom at large as Season 6 is. Joss didn't actually step down as showrunner of BtVS until 2 seasons later, however, which invalidates/disproves your argument that it was his lack of direct involvement in Season 6 which caused that season to be negatively perceived by a large portion of the fandom.

Second, if Marti Noxon is/was solely to blame for the prevailing perceived crappiness of Season 6, please explain to me how Season 7 - on which she also served as showrunner - can be viewed by the fandom at large in an overall positive light. Granted, it isn't viewed by the fandom as positively as Seasons 2, 3, and 5, but it is viewed positively, in contrast to the prevailing negative opinion of Seasons 6 and (as mentioned above) 4.

I would dispute your assessments about the general fan perceptions of Seasons 4, 6, & 7. In my experience, Season 7 is regarded just as badly as Season 6, although for somewhat different reasons. Season 6 is criticized for lacking a significant exterior threat for our heroes. Season 7 had the First Evil, which was theoretically the most dangerous villain they ever fought. Unfortunately, it seemed thoroughly ineffective. It was telepathic and could manifest itself to anyone as any dead person at any time. It should have easily been able to drive all of the Scoobies insane. Instead, it was kind of an idiot. (It’s amazing to think that Angelus caused more psychological damage while trapped in a cell during the “Soulless”/”Calvary” 2-parter than the First caused over an entire season.)

As for Season 4, I think it’s terribly underrated. But even at its worst, it mostly just elicits a “Meh” from the fandom, whereas Season 6 elicits an “Eeeeewwwwww!!!!!”

I'm going to have to disagree with you on S7. I don't know if you were here while Buffy S7 was still on the air, but myself, Caligula, and another poster weren't shy about expressing our complete and utter distaste with S7 and what the writers were doing with the storylines, and we were in the distinct minority.

I was here, on the TrekBBS that is, but I wasn't following the Buffy threads at the time. I was an Angel-only fan at that point. I did get a general sense that perhaps Season 7 was viewed as an improvement over Season 6. However, in subsequent threads, it seems that Season 7 has not withstood the test of time.

 

[RoJoHen]

I have actually grown to appreciate Season 7 more over the course of time. I really enjoyed the return to the high school setting. What was weird was how negative Buffy became as a person, especially after the way Season 6 ends, with her supposedly getting over being mopey and wanting to "show Dawn the world." I think Season 7 started out great, but towards the end it got very negative. I wish Buffy's disconnect with her friends had happened more in the middle of the season so that there would have been more time to see them reconcile. Instead, Buffy is bitchy in the second-to-last episode, and we barely get to see her and her friends get along again.

 

[DevilEyes]

Well, unfortunately for you, they did go there.

Also mildly unfortunate for their DVD sales. Seasons 6 & 7 are the only two Joss Whedon DVDs I don't own.

Do you have any data on the sales of DVDs of S6 and S7 as opposed to other seasons? I have never bothered to check. But if the fact that you don't own those two DVDs is all the evidence... I'm not sure that anyone is suffering for having sold 2 less copies of BtVS DVDs.

I have actually grown to appreciate Season 7 more over the course of time. I really enjoyed the return to the high school setting. What was weird was how negative Buffy became as a person, especially after the way Season 6 ends, with her supposedly getting over being mopey and wanting to "show Dawn the world." I think Season 7 started out great, but towards the end it got very negative. I wish Buffy's disconnect with her friends had happened more in the middle of the season so that there would have been more time to see them reconcile. Instead, Buffy is bitchy in the second-to-last episode, and we barely get to see her and her friends get along again.

I really like season 7, but Buffy's development is a problem - or rather, it is a problem that she gets so constrained by the role of the general since the moment the Potentials arrive, and goes about it the wrong way, and it takes so long for her to really reconnect with everyone - pretty much in the last episode or so, which is too brief. The only areas where she shows real growth this season are her relationship with Spike, her treatment of Andrew, and mending her relations with Faith to something that almost looks like friendship in the last couple of episodes. But her relationships with Dawn and the Scoobies deteriorate for most of the season (granted, in Giles' case it is largely his fault), and most problematic, her treatment of the Potentials? Horribly wrong. She makes huge mistakes as a leader, tries to act like a Watcher and gives long-winded speeches that rang hollow and occasionally even hypocritical (like her attempts to portray human relations with vampires and demons in black and white terms, even though her own behavior completely contradicts that attitude, which the girls are quick to notice), doesn't consult other people enough, her decision making in "Dirty Girls" is disastrous, she is clearly frustrated and insecure, and it all reaches a low point in "Empty Places" with her misguided dictatorial attitude. She finally gets her shit together, mends relationships with everyone and figures that sharing power is a better idea than being the one and only Chosen One*, but it only happens in the last couple of episodes. It does feel like she needs a lot more character development. She really does still feel like an unfinished cookie dough at this point, and by that I am not referring to her romantic relationships.


* And in the comics season 8, it turns out that this decision has only made her even more isolated, lonely and out of touch with humanity (in more than one meaning of the word).

 

[saturn5]

I like season 7, 6 was good but hard going at times with a few true gem eps to make is all worthwhile. 7 is a lot more fun and gives a great ending to this most terrific of series, Faith's back, Dawn is all grown up (and hot to trot!), Spike's got his soul, what's not to love?

 

[Mr Light]

Season Seven wasn't great but it was lightyears better than Six.

And the Season Eight comic is actually really good, it brings Buffy back to the fun character she was in high school (now that SMG's corrosive influence is gone) and it has crazy big action and humor.

 

[DigificWriter]

Time has softened/lessened my hatred of Season 7, even though I'm still greatly disappointed by the direction that Joss chose to take Dawn's character arc (I think she fell vastly short of her potential [no pun intended] by the end of S7, especially given the way that the season began for her), and still absolutely hate the way that he chose to maim Xander (the idea, in principle and concept, is an interesting one, and is one of many ideas that myself, Caligula, and our friend borrowed from the existing S7 for our alternative version, even though the project fell apart before we could actually write the episode where we were planning on maiming him), since him losing an eye - as presented - really didn't contribute anything to his overall character development and was therefore more or less relegated to the realm of 'shock value', but have ultimately come to the conclusion that S7 was full of a lot of great ideas that weren't just executed as well as they could've been.

 

[PsychoPere]

I like season 7 [...] what's not to love?

For one item, I've never been a fan of Buffy's plan to turn all Potentials into active Slayers. She spends so much of the series lamenting the fact that she wasn't given any choice in deciding her life as a Slayer, yet she apparently felt that she had the right to make that choice for girls around the entire world. It's always felt like hypocrisy to me.

 

[DevilEyes]

I like season 7 [...] what's not to love?

For one item, I've never been a fan of Buffy's plan to turn all Potentials into active Slayers. She spends so much of the series lamenting the fact that she wasn't given any choice in deciding her life as a Slayer, yet she apparently felt that she had the right to make that choice for girls around the entire world. It's always felt like hypocrisy to me.

It's mentioned in one of the S8 comics that some Slayers choose not to follow their calling. I wish they explored that in bit more detail, though. So far there's been more focus on the Slayers who choose to abuse their powers.

 

[PsychoPere]

It's mentioned in one of the S8 comics that some Slayers choose not to follow their calling. I wish they explored that in bit more detail, though. So far there's been more focus on the Slayers who choose to abuse their powers.

That's good to hear. I haven't kept up with the comics. The last storyline I read was the Faith "No Future for You" arc. One of these days I'll get around to buying some more trades to get caught up.

 

[RoJoHen]

Same. I read the first Buffy TPB and enjoyed it, but I just haven't gotten around to reading the rest.

I also need to get caught up on the Angel comics. I read the first "After the Fall" series, but I heard that the series following that really sucks.

 

[AJBryant]

I like season 7 [...] what's not to love?

For one item, I've never been a fan of Buffy's plan to turn all Potentials into active Slayers. She spends so much of the series lamenting the fact that she wasn't given any choice in deciding her life as a Slayer, yet she apparently felt that she had the right to make that choice for girls around the entire world. It's always felt like hypocrisy to me.

The difference is they are NOT alone. Not any more.