Buffy fans: Why was Adam received so harshly?

[ReadyAndWilling]

so i was watching the episode in S4 where Buffy and Faith trade places. Adam shows up in the 2nd part and talks to the vampires. he has some great lines and great scenes here.

for a show with a supposed 'intellectual' audience i'm still really surprised the philosophical Adam wasn't liked much at all. even joss said his least favorite Big Bad was Adam. he and the Mayor were two of my favorites with Angel coming in behind them.

thanks

 

[saturn5]

Because he looked stupid and was nothing like the cool/charming villains of 2&3, he was supposed to the Terminator but came across as Robbie the Robot

 

[CorporalClegg]

Actually, I think it's more accurate to say he was supposed to be a modern-day Frankenstein's Monster.

And I don't think it's people don't like him so much as the Initiative in general. The thing was just all around handled badly. Joss & Marti both stated several times that no one involved knew anything about the military ... and it was quite obvious. It just came across as fake and silly. And things kept changing plot wise. It was as if they couldn't make up their mind.

The whole thing culminated with "Primeval." The whole episode was just poorly executed. For starters, what should have been a two-parter was crammed into one. Too much stuff happened off screen and it led to huge plot holes and a lot of confusion as to WTF was really supposed to be going on.

 

[Ethros]

His floppy disk drive looks pretty dated now

I don't really "dislike" him but I can see why he's people's least favourite Big Bag. Actually he doesn't really feature that much, he's not introduced until over half way through the season, and then rarely pops up until the 2 part finale.
I remember compared to the previous seasons' efforts of Spike & Dru, Angelus, and the Mayor & Faith, he did seem a bit poor at the time.

 

[label]

His floppy disk drive looks pretty dated now

I don't really "dislike" him but I can see why he's people's least favourite Big Bag. Actually he doesn't really feature that much, he's not introduced until over half way through the season, and then rarely pops up until the 2 part finale.
I remember compared to the previous seasons' efforts of Spike & Dru, Angelus, and the Mayor & Faith, he did seem a bit poor at the time.

This is more where I fall..........I don't actively dislike Adam.....in fact, I quite liked some of his philosophical takes on things. However, because he is introduced so late in the Season and then has very little screen time - relative to how much screen time other big bads get - that it was hard to feel much of anything about him. Plus, he was saddled with a sloppy initiative storyline that really stretched believability and in general, an awkward fourth season overall.

Plus, after following such strong villians like Angelus/Spike/Dru and the Mayor, it's not hard to see why people felt let down by Adam, despite his potential.

 

[Ethros]

I always love that scene between him and the little boy in "Goodbye Iowa", if only because the dialogue is so corny and the kid is a pretty poor actor and it makes me laugh.

Adam: What am I?
Boy: You're a monster.
Adam (resigned): I thought so. (curious) What are you?
Boy: Me? I'm a boy.
Adam: A boy. How do you work?
Boy: I don't know. I just do.


The end of the scene is cool though

 

[WillsBabe]

Plus, after following such strong villians like Angelus/Spike/Dru and the Mayor, it's not hard to see why people felt let down by Adam, despite his potential.

I agree. In the episode where Spike tells him he's like Tony Robbins, it's ironic because he really doesn't have a gift for language and communication in the way that the other Buffy villans have.

I'm not absolutely sure why folks felt let down by Adam. I know I was, but during my recent Buffy marathon re-watch I was not as disappointed by him as I was expecting. (I did ignore the disc drive, though!)

 

[exodus]

I liked him the best, honestly.
He was like Mr. Sinster from X-Men too me.
He believed genetic splicing made superior beings.
He didn't get he own hands dirty, he manipulated others in doing the dirty work for him.
He turned a child into a fillet just so see what made him tick as a science experiment.
He was the only villian that wasn't disorganized.
He didn't have henchmen or acts of jealousy be a weakness in his plans like all the rest.
Buffy never would have beaten him without Willow.

 

[Too Much Fun]

He just didn't have the charisma and wit of the previous villains like Spike, Angelus, and The Mayor or a threatening, intimidating aura like The Master, so I understand why he wasn't the most popular villain. I think Exodus is being a little too generous. At least Mr. Sinister (as I recall from the animated X-Men series) had some ego and would gloat about his plans (as I think all good villains should ).

Adam never had much to say that was funny, interesting, or impressively menacing. I tended to find his philosophical rambling pretentious and boring, but I occasionally found the way other people reacted to it amusing. It got a laugh out of me when he was doing his smug little rant about how vampires are so vulnerable and weak and one of the vampires listening says, "Will somebody kill this guy already?" and Spike's aforementioned line about Tony Robbins after Adam's lame metaphor about Spike being a caged animal was funny as well. If nothing else, Adam could be a good straight man sometimes.

It's not really fair or realistic to expect him to be as entertaining as the previous villains. He was basically a cyborg, after all, so of course he's not going to have as much personality as a human or demon. Still, as dull and uninspired as he was, I still think he's a hell of a lot more enjoyable to watch than nails-on-a-chalkboard grating and annoying Glory. I still prefer a villain with not enough personality and limp dialogue to one whose personality and dialogue are so obnoxious and irritating they make me want to rip off my ears. That's the biggest reason why Season 4 > Season 5, there I said it.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

so i was watching the episode in S4 where Buffy and Faith trade places. Adam shows up in the 2nd part and talks to the vampires. he has some great lines and great scenes here.

for a show with a supposed 'intellectual' audience i'm still really surprised the philosophical Adam wasn't liked much at all. even joss said his least favorite Big Bad was Adam. he and the Mayor were two of my favorites with Angel coming in behind them.

thanks

That particular episode, written and directed by Joss, was the only episode where Adam didn't look and sound like a retard (...he only looked like one).

There was nothing philosophical at all about Adam other than in that one episode. This was the way Adam should have been used... inspring the vampire population to launch a massive day-time invasion. That would have been way more interesting than the generic villain and showdown we got.

 

[exodus]

He just didn't have the charisma and wit of the previous villains like Spike, Angelus, and The Mayor or a threatening, intimidating aura like The Master, so I understand why he wasn't the most popular villain. I think Exodus is being a little too generous. At least Mr. Sinister (as I recall from the animated X-Men series) had some ego and would gloat about his plans (as I think all good villains should ).

Trying reading the earily works of him in comics.
For years nobody knew what Sinisters whole plan was.
Besides, gloating and ego are a weaknesses for villians too me. It's like; let me tell you my whole plan and distract my ownself so the hero can exploit that weakness and win. It's the plot of nearly every 007 film.
Isn't that what realy did in Glory, because she talked to much and gave too much away?

 

[Too Much Fun]

Besides, gloating and ego are a weaknesses for villians too me. It's like; let me tell you my whole plan and distract my ownself so the hero can exploit that weakness and win. It's the plot of nearly every 007 film.
Isn't that what realy did in Glory, because she talked to much and gave too much away?

Yeah, I never thought the gloating and ego stuff actually made someone an 'impressive' or 'intimidating' villain per se, it's more just a common villain cliche that I find cute, especially when it's done with a lot of eloquence. Apocalypse makes me laugh my ass off on the animated X-Men series with how he goes on and on about how inferior all other life forms are to him. His immeasurably massive arrogance is hilarious.

Adam talks about other beings being inferior too, but he doesn't do it with any 'mustache-twirling' relish like other villains, so he's not as fun. His dialog and personality just come across as flat, but again, at least the way other people react to it (like wtf is up with this guy? everything he says is so stuffy) can be good for a chuckle.

I like villains who talk a lot. Look at The Joker, who can't stop talking and is constantly 'on'. He's one of my favourites. I didn't like Glory because of how she would talk and what she would say, not the simple fact that she was a loudmouth. She was just such a one-dimensional spoiled brat. All she did was whine and bitch about not getting her way and her bravado was not nearly as fresh and entertaining as that of previous villains. If a character is not fascinating and/or endearing in some way, there's no joy in watching them act out.

She had no chemistry with anybody in the cast and brought nothing to the series at all. She was an obstacle and a plot device in the way of the characters and the show and I was glad when she left. I didn't see any episodes/story arcs or character development motivated by her personality in a positive way.

 

[exodus]

I like villains who talk a lot. Look at The Joker, who can't stop talking and is constantly 'on'. He's one of my favourites. I didn't like Glory because of how she would talk and what she would say, not the simple fact that she was a loudmouth. She was just such a one-dimensional spoiled brat. All she did was whine and bitch about not getting her way and her bravado was not nearly as fresh and entertaining as that of previous villains. If a character is not fascinating and/or endearing in some way, there's no joy in watching them act out.

Don't you mean, mulit-dimentional.

Seriously, I got thay about Glory.
She was a God, even the Greeks viewed their Gods as petty & cruel. Why be a God if you can't get your way?
However, because she was such a brat it was that much more of a thrill to me when Willow goes after her and hurts her. You wanted to see her knocked down a few pegs. Too me, that was one of the best battles on Buffy.
Buffy wasn't the only bad ass on the block anymore.

 

[RoJoHen]

He was a mediocre villain in a mediocre season. I don't dislike him. I don't have much of an opinion of him at all. He was just very forgettable.

 

[DigificWriter]

I've long felt that Buffy Season 4 is rather under-appreciated, but, at the same time, I can see why people felt underwhelmed by the season's storyline and by the introduction of Adam; I personally feel that, ultimately, the introduction of Adam and the Initiative was the first of two incidents in which the execution of the idea(s) didn't fully live up to potential (the other being Season 7's storyline), and the reason I believe that the execution of Adam failed to live up to the brilliant potential of the concept behind him was due to issues of pacing, which not only has to do with how late in the season he was introduced, but also the lack of any attempt to foreshadow his introduction.

 

[Mr Light]

Yeah Adam wasn't the greatest, and a large problem was his silly makeup design.

It's too bad the series didn't work out as planned, where Walsh was the Big Bad and Adam was just her henchman. The actress quit the show halfway through the season leading to her abrupt death.

Walsh would have worked so much better as the Big Bad because she represents college as a professor and a rival authority figure to Giles (which they only got to touch upon once in "A New Man" as I recall).

 

[Jax]

I think another problem was the season before was probably the best year for Buffy and the big enemy Faith and The Mayor were utterly brilliant...

Hard to top that really.

 

[exodus]

I think another problem was the season before was probably the best year for Buffy and the big enemy Faith and The Mayor were utterly brilliant...

Hard to top that really.

That's very true.

...but as Mr. Light also mentions, if Walsh stayed and Adam was her henchmen. That might have been just as dynamic, while making the conclusion of mother(Walsh), good son(Reilly) & bad son (Adam) so much more macabre.

 

[Leroy]

I think it was because of the weak story arc and that he didn't show up much until the end. I have no problem with the character he is one of my fave Buffy villains as I like Frankenstein monster like characters.

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

I didn't really understand the 'gift' he was talking about.

Didn't he have another objective that he gave himself and overrode the commands from Walsh?