The show is much better for it, too. Walt needs a foil and a contrast, and Jesse provides both in spades. It just wouldn't be the same show without Jesse.
Breaking Bad - Season 5
- Thread starter Agent Richard07
- Start date
They were going to kill off Jesse??? Really?? 
I had no idea. Oh, it is sooo much better for having kept him. I can't imagine Walter in his conflict with Gus all by himself.
I love character driven shows; for all of its action BB is soooo character driven. That's why I couldn't stop watching. Jesse is like Walt's very last, veeeeery tenuous tie to humanity. He seemed sincerely stricken when Jesse and he had their knock down drag out fight and Jesse was taken to Mexico to teach the cartel how to cook. His drunkenly calling Walt Jr. "Jesse" after he'd been beaten up was telling....but then he does what he does to poison little Brock to get Jesse to turn against Gustavo for good. I wanted to kill Walt for that. Him terrorizing Skyler now is bad enough.
I also loved the recent scene when Mike called Walt a ticking time bomb and told Jesse that he felt bad that he couldn't see it. Everyone sees Walt for what he is now except Jesse. I love it that Mike the hit man likes Jesse. Only on a show like this could that be believable. Such superb actors one and all.
Then there's Hank.
How far will Walt go now to stop him?
I had no idea. Oh, it is sooo much better for having kept him. I can't imagine Walter in his conflict with Gus all by himself. I love character driven shows; for all of its action BB is soooo character driven. That's why I couldn't stop watching. Jesse is like Walt's very last, veeeeery tenuous tie to humanity. He seemed sincerely stricken when Jesse and he had their knock down drag out fight and Jesse was taken to Mexico to teach the cartel how to cook. His drunkenly calling Walt Jr. "Jesse" after he'd been beaten up was telling....but then he does what he does to poison little Brock to get Jesse to turn against Gustavo for good. I wanted to kill Walt for that. Him terrorizing Skyler now is bad enough.
I also loved the recent scene when Mike called Walt a ticking time bomb and told Jesse that he felt bad that he couldn't see it. Everyone sees Walt for what he is now except Jesse. I love it that Mike the hit man likes Jesse. Only on a show like this could that be believable. Such superb actors one and all.
Then there's Hank.
How far will Walt go now to stop him?
Then there's Hank.
Too far by the looks of it.
And I didn't get the vibe that Walt actually raped Skyler, but it makes sense, would explain why she's so shellshocked now...
It's more like she was too terrified to say "no." It was creepy as hell how all over her he was. It's not as if a man can't tell that a woman isn't receptive in bed.
Then there's Hank.
Up til now Walt's gone out of his way to protect Hank, but who knows how much longer that'll last.
I WANT to believe that, even as the shit's going down at the very end, Walt will have enough humanity left in him to not want to hurt Hank (especially after he was already nearly crippled for life), but it's hard to say what he'll do.
What I get from the show about Walt's feeling for Hank is that Walt both despises and resents him. Learning to fear Hank will be difficult given his massive ego, but he's not that stupid. It'll come, eventually. I think the only thing that kept him from sitting on his hands when it came to Gus putting a hit on Hank was his belief that Skylar would blame him. Now that he's got something on Skylar (embezzlement, assault on Beneke, terror) he won't wait long. The only thing holding him back will be a little worry that hurting Marie that much might drive Skylar to leave.
All sexual relations between Skylar and Walt now have an element of force by initimidation, i.e., of rape. But Skylar being another crook, as well as an adulteress, has permanently removed her from any pedestal. He can live with her reluctance.
All sexual relations between Skylar and Walt now have an element of force by initimidation, i.e., of rape. But Skylar being another crook, as well as an adulteress, has permanently removed her from any pedestal. He can live with her reluctance.
It helped that the writers' strike happened before they could produce all ten episodes they had initially planned for the first season. Over the hiatus, the writers reconsidered their plans for the show, and made a few adjustments. Not only did Jesse live, but Tuco -- who they had intended to be a major antagonist -- was killed when Raymond Cruz asked to appear in fewer episodes in season two.
Then there's Hank.
Up til now Walt's gone out of his way to protect Hank, but who knows how much longer that'll last.
I WANT to believe that, even as the shit's going down at the very end, Walt will have enough humanity left in him to not want to hurt Hank (especially after he was already nearly crippled for life), but it's hard to say what he'll do.
Wow, that's not my take at all, at least up to this point. Walt has shown nothing but genuine affection for Hank over the past couple of years. That affection has even seemed to grow as Hank's life took those ad turns.
Of course, it may not last but I think for now, we can assume that Walt does care about hank independant of his feelings for Marie.
Speaking of Hank, my sister and I got into an argument about him and Jesse. I said that even though Jesse has become the show's main protagonist, Hank is still the show's moral center. She thinks that Jesse is the show's moral center. But, I pointed out to her, Hank may not be perfect but he is still pure as the driven snow compared to all the other characters including Jesse who is a drug dealer and murderer.
Harsh, but true I think.
But I'm not getting exactly why Skyler is so scared of Walt all of a sudden. Okay, she knows he blew up Gus but why wouldn't she see that as just self defense? She was well aware that Walt's life was in danger at some point.
Walt has shown her nothing but "love" and devotion in the past. I don't think the show has worked hard enough make a convincing case for justifying Skyler's fear of Walt at this point.
This is great. I just got my daughter a shirt with a drawing of Walt as "Heisenberg" for her birthday. It's nice but I wish I'de seen this one first.
Bryan Cranston won the Emmy for Outstanding Lead Actor in a Drama Series in 2008, 2009, and 2010. He wasn't eligible in 2011 (due to the long hiatus).
Aaron Paul won the Emmy for Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama Series in 2010.
Unfortunately, the show never won the Emmy for Best Drama (though, it has been nominated several times).
This. This I agree with. Hank is the moral center. He's got the clearest conscience and the most morally correct path, IMO. He can see beyond his own orbit. Hank could have lied through his teeth about what happened the night he beat Jesse up, but he didn't even though he was encouraged to do so by Marie. That speaks well of his character.
Jesse, however, is the main protagonist. I thought I was nuts to care for the character so much, but I guess I'm not alone in that perspective. He's not evil. He's got some street smarts, but he's not educated or book smart and--unfortunately--Jesse's got a guardian Meth angel who's going to get him killed, already killed his first love and nearly killed his would-be step son. True, he could step away from Walt. He is an adult, but he's so desperate for affection he'll take it from anyone.....even Walt. The question is.....does Walt care about him? Opinions? He seemed to for a long time. Walt ran over those drug dealers who were going to pop him in the middle of the street. He seemed genuinely moved by Jesse's despair in the crack house over Jane's death. Then there was his moaning Jesse's name when he was saying goodbye to Walt Jr. after Jesse and he fought. Good bye "Jesse" instead of good bye "junior." So he was on his mind.
Their relationship is warped. It intrigues, but it's warped. Would Walt sacrifice Jesse himself to save his own skin? I know he'd sacrifice Jesse's family and pretend he didn't, but would he hurt Jesse? What is up with those two?
BTW, Cranston and Paul together on the blooper reels on youtube--oh my GOD.
When Cranston pulled out that giant dildo like a gun and told Aaron to grab it, and then squirted him from it. 
^^^I think the technical term for Jesse is antivillain. What Walt wants and does is driving all the action and drama, so he is the protagonist, even if he is an antihero. Hank is the antagonist.
Skylar has a few antagonist functions and a little antihero too. Breaking Bad hasn't written her too badly by comparison to most TV shows writing women characters but that's an incredibly low bar.
Skylar has a few antagonist functions and a little antihero too. Breaking Bad hasn't written her too badly by comparison to most TV shows writing women characters but that's an incredibly low bar.
Yeah at first I had a bit of trouble with that as well, but now that we see how much more cold and calculating and scary he's become, I think her fear makes a lot more sense.
Before she could tell herself that he was a good, decent guy who was just in way over his head, but now it's clear to her that he's a VERY different man than before. One who can set off a bomb in a nursing home and sound perfectly calm and relaxed about it afterwards.
The fact he still acts like a normal family man on the outside would probably just make the whole thing seem even creepier to her.
The point of my post wasn't how to categorize Jesse the character, but to point out that Jesse is not the moral center of the show -- Hank is.
At this point, I know I'm nit picking a bit here because Walt has become one scary dude. But what I'm saying is that I needed a scene in the season opener where Walt actually does something that makes Skylar think that he just might harm her if he feels the need. She seemed to be frightened of him in their first scene together.
Carmella Soprano knew Tony was a scary dude too. She knew he was capable of murder and worse, but she was "reasonably" sure he wouldn't harm her for the most part. Being a "dangerous" guy in and of itself isn't necessarily a reason for a loved one to fear that person.
I just haven't seen where Vince has let us see whatever it was Skylar saw that made her feel about Walt the way she was shown to feel about him in the season opener. I mean we know Walt is scary because we've seen what he is capable of, but Skylar hasn't seen any of this. All we have been shown her seeing is Walt being a loving Dad, a loving (sometimes overbearingly so, and manipulative) husband.
I can accept that she is afraid of him now, I just think it would hav made more sense to show us something in the season opener that would explain her fear of him in that first scene in their bedroom in the season opener.
Personally I could never quite work out if we were supposed to like Skylar or not. She is absolutely a believable character, but Walt seems to mostly be attached to her because she is -his- and not out of any love he holds for her anymore. The writers certainly haven't given us any reason to empathize with Walt's affection for her.
It would seem like she is a smart woman, & being so, she's been able to piece it all together. I think the worm really turned for her when he gave her the "I'm the one who knocks" speech
That speech was almost entirely for her character's benefit, because it was, at that time, still somewhat bullshit that Walt was spouting out of his ass for dramatic effect
It worked, & then coming out on top of the chicken man in bloody brutal fashion was the kicker. His whole attitude has changed, & everyone has noticed it
Even Jesse looked concerned at the end of last week's talk about Victor. Certainly the wife would pick up the clues much sooner & in her case be much more worried about it
Yeah, when he says "I won" in that cocky, arrogant way he did, it was probably the first time she realized that "Oh shit, this isn't just him putting on an act anymore. He really HAS become a different and more dangerous guy now."
And again, exploding a bomb in a building usually does make people question your sanity and judgement, I find. Regardless of the threat Gus posed, that was still an extremely reckless thing to do.
EXACTLY. Skyler's fear isn't out of the blue. Women pick up cues and subtleties and meanings in words quite well. Skyler knows he's different now; the bomb in the nursing home made it all crystal clear in a way that she can no longer ignore. Plus, the way he was slithering all over her in bed....Walt knew she was tense and unreceptive. He didn't care. Being sexually intimidated is a terrible thing for a woman; it doesn't matter if you know the man or not. I understand the scene was originally filmed a bit more explicitly but the director decided it wasn't necessary to see?
Jesse's an antivillain? Is that a more compassionate villian with whom you can empathize emotionally? Hmmmmm....that might fit Jesse the character. It's hard to imagine Jesse terrorizing a woman in bed or killing just to prove he's "the man" like Walt. Jesse really suffered after he offed Gale--at Walter's request. Yes, it's very bad that he did it, but still, you're able to feel sorry for him while bemoaning Gale's fate. No one forced Gale into that lab to cook either. He was in it for profit. The fact that you can feel for Jesse's internal strife when he couldn't bare to be alone in his own house lest he be alone with his thoughts is testament to Aaron Paul's talent, IMO.
The only other character whom I can think of who might have fit the "antivillain" mode was Chris Keller of HBO's "Oz." Violent and deceitful, yes. Yet I totally empathized with his feelings for Beecher and fear that he'd burn in hell.
Yeah according to the podcast, it originally ended with her reaching over and, um... finishing him off before he could have sex with her.
Which, personally, I really glad we didn't have to see. Lol
