Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek...

[Alidar Jarok]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

Temis the Vorta said:

That's another misconception. Berman was as involved in DS9 as he was with VOY.

If that's true, then there must be some other explanation for the fact that DS9 and VOY were as different as two shows could be and still be called Star Trek. So what was the determining factor? The other people involved? The fact that VOY was UPN's flagship and got more suit interference while DS9 was allowed more freedom?

Well, yeah. UPN has killed other shows besides Star Trek.

I think we can all at least agree that UPN sucks, right?

 

[Anwar]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

Yep, glad its' dead.

 

[steveman]

Braga, like Berman, probably take more heat than they deserve. I mean, anybody would get burnt out if they worked on the same creative property, non-stop, for as long as they did. The only crime they truly committed was not knowing when to throw their hands up and say, "That's enough."

That's my take, anyway.

As for the class Braga's now teaching at Kent State? I'd take it in a heartbeat.

 

[AJBryant]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

Warp Coil said:
Ron Moore's infamous interview from a few years ago talks about why he left VOY's writing team after 2 episodes and brings up Berman's unwillingness to move away from the status quo.

I'd love to see that interview. Any links to it?

Noname Given said:
Peopel in the know have said that fans didn't realize just how much Berman DID fight against UPN network suit ideas (the person mentioning this said the network wanted him to work in pop culture apperances for 'pop-culture' stuff like "The Backstreet Boys" , "Spice Girls", etc. And personally, I can SEE the network suits thinking - "Yeah, this'll bring up the 18-24 demos..." and they could give a damn about the 'futuristic/serious sci-fi theme" of the Star Trek franchise - so again, who knows just how hard he had to fight to keep stuff like this from appearing - which he obviously DID keep off.

I'm reminded of my least favorite B5 episode: "Penn & Teller In Space."



Tony

 

[Warp Coil]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

AJBryant said:

Warp Coil said:
Ron Moore's infamous interview from a few years ago talks about why he left VOY's writing team after 2 episodes and brings up Berman's unwillingness to move away from the status quo.

I'd love to see that interview. Any links to it?

I believe it was a 2 or 3 part article published online, and has surfaced many times on this BBS. I'm sure it's still around somewhere.

Noname Given said:
Peopel in the know have said that fans didn't realize just how much Berman DID fight against UPN network suit ideas (the person mentioning this said the network wanted him to work in pop culture apperances for 'pop-culture' stuff like "The Backstreet Boys" , "Spice Girls", etc. And personally, I can SEE the network suits thinking - "Yeah, this'll bring up the 18-24 demos..." and they could give a damn about the 'futuristic/serious sci-fi theme" of the Star Trek franchise - so again, who knows just how hard he had to fight to keep stuff like this from appearing - which he obviously DID keep off.

This may be true, but it didn't stop The Rock from appearing in a VOY version of WWE Smackdown!

 

[exodus]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

Anwar said:
DS9's freedom came from being syndicated and not at one network's whim like VOY and ENT were, Behr is just an ungrateful prat who doesn't appreciate that Berman actually did help to keep the studio off the DS9's crew for things and blames him for utterly ridiculous stuff.

And anyways, you're just biased against anything Berman had a hand in, meaning you'd naturally come in and try to minimize whatever role he had in anything.

Preach the words, Brother Benny! :thumbsup:

 

[blockaderunner]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

startrekwatcher said:

StarryEyed said:
The Xindi arc maintained strong continuity? Within itself, perhaps. It just didn't fit well into greater fabric of the whole of Star Trek. It sure didn't feel right to me.

The arc answered why we never heard of the Expanse in later series.

But why set up this really interesting concept like the Expanse, only to destroy it just because Fanon dictates that it doesn't exist in TOS and beyond? That kind of thinking shows that TPTB thinks the galaxy is smaller than speculated. Did Lucas do a wholesale elimination of Naboo, Mustafar, Kamino, Geonosis, and Kashyyk simply because they weren't in the Original Trilogy? He made his universe bigger. The Expanse should have stayed. It would have opened up many post-Nemesis story ideas.

 

[blockaderunner]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

Anwar said:
Instead of being reviled, they'd just be martyrs who still couldn't find much work post-Trek.

How is that different now? Let's see. Braga did Threshold which got yanked and is now writing on 24 which is on hiatus and, nowadays, isn't anything to write home about beacuse the show writes itself. Throw in a couple of Arabs, a bloodless nuclear explosion, some tense moments in the Oval Office, and keep Keifer Sutherland away from the bar long enough to have him scream "WHO ARE YOU WORKING FOR?!?!?!!" every other time and you have a season.

And Berman is...um....Paramount security? Al Vinci's personal assistant?


Yup. Sticking by Trek has done wonders for their post-Trek careers.

 

[CaptainJamesKirk]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

StarryEyed said:
It bothered me because it just didn't feel right. I'll admit that there isn't anything in the Xindi arc which flat-out contradicts what came before but it didn't feel right to me. It was previously established that the Romulan War would take place during Enterprise's time frame so why come up with a whole new enemy?

Braga had no respect for established Trek history and he admitted this several times. Many of us can't enjoy a book if what we read in chapter 7 contradicts what happened in chapter 3. It spoils the whole thing.

I so agree. Trek writers have never stayed with Trek history. They are always re-writing it. Even in Next Gen episode Relics, Scotty stated that Kirk probably brought the Enterprise out of mothballs yet he saw him die in Generations.
I really want the new trek to work but, I'm not holding my breath. Hey... if it doesn't work we always have the new voyages.

 

[Tulin]

Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek's falling ratings wasn't easy.

Cry me a river.

I'm sure the millions he pocketed each year while the show circled the shitter made his nights bearable.

Braga admitted to stumbling into his early Star Trek writing success.

NO SHIT?!?!?!

File this under "DUH!!!!!!!!!!"

"I didn't really have any books or any way of grasping how I could go about being a screenwriter when I was growing up,"

And it shows.


Fucking tool.

 

[Anwar]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

blockaderunner said:

startrekwatcher said:

StarryEyed said:
The Xindi arc maintained strong continuity? Within itself, perhaps. It just didn't fit well into greater fabric of the whole of Star Trek. It sure didn't feel right to me.

The arc answered why we never heard of the Expanse in later series.

But why set up this really interesting concept like the Expanse, only to destroy it just because Fanon dictates that it doesn't exist in TOS and beyond? That kind of thinking shows that TPTB thinks the galaxy is smaller than speculated. Did Lucas do a wholesale elimination of Naboo, Mustafar, Kamino, Geonosis, and Kashyyk simply because they weren't in the Original Trilogy? He made his universe bigger. The Expanse should have stayed. It would have opened up many post-Nemesis story ideas.

Because the focus of the OT was on the Rebel/Empire conflict and really didn't build up the SW universe much in the way of worlds and such. So it's more acceptable to show us all this new stuff in the past because it was before the Empire conquered everything and because the OT hardly focused on the worlds.

With Trek, we'd already seen all these worlds and artifacts and "unusual regions" of space in the various 23/24th Century series, so why wouldn't the Expanse be mentioned at all when they encountered these things in the shows, no "The Founders hid their world in a nebula like the Xindi" references or anything?

 

[Anwar]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

blockaderunner said:

Anwar said:
Instead of being reviled, they'd just be martyrs who still couldn't find much work post-Trek.

How is that different now? Let's see. Braga did Threshold which got yanked and is now writing on 24 which is on hiatus and, nowadays, isn't anything to write home about beacuse the show writes itself. Throw in a couple of Arabs, a bloodless nuclear explosion, some tense moments in the Oval Office, and keep Keifer Sutherland away from the bar long enough to have him scream "WHO ARE YOU WORKING FOR?!?!?!!" every other time and you have a season.

And Berman is...um....Paramount security? Al Vinci's personal assistant?


Yup. Sticking by Trek has done wonders for their post-Trek careers.

Their careers wouldn't be any better if they'd left earlier, except they wouldn't have as much money as they do now.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

blockaderunner said:But why set up this really interesting concept like the Expanse, only to destroy it just because Fanon dictates that it doesn't exist in TOS and beyond?

Writer's prerogative. Really I don't see the Expanse as offering up any storylines that needed to be addressed after its elimination.

If the writers wanted to explore it the time was during season three as the crew made their way through it. In fact, one issue I had was that the writers didn't create at least one or two intriguing inhabitants beyond the Xindi and see their point of view on the region etc or to do one or two high concept sci-fi mysteries a la TNG along the way.

I liked the idea that the Expanse ceased to exist with the elimination of the sphere network. It made sense for the larger Trek storyline but as well as for the climax of season three.

 

[exodus]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

blockaderunner said:


Braga did Threshold which got yanked and is now writing on 24 which is on hiatus and, nowadays, isn't anything to write home about beacuse the show writes itself. Throw in a couple of Arabs, a bloodless nuclear explosion, some tense moments in the Oval Office, and keep Keifer Sutherland away from the bar long enough to have him scream "WHO ARE YOU WORKING FOR?!?!?!!" every other time and you have a season.

I really do hope this is a joke.

 

[blockaderunner]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

^^^Afraid not. But as I said, the show is formulaic enough that two monkeys and three year old can write it and no once would know the difference.

 

[exodus]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

blockaderunner said:
^^^Afraid not. But as I said, the show is formulaic enough that two monkeys and three year old can write it and no once would know the difference.

No show is easy to write for, especially one that has to be written and told within a real time format. That takes creativity and a sense of proper pacing. That's harder to do than the made up, no sense of time stuff done on over half the stuff on TV. These people spent years in school learning their craft and then a few more interning(working for free) just to get their foot in the door and still get paid next to nothing for it. Those stories by "trained monkey's" are getting nation wide exposure, gave Keifer the best job of his career and are Emmy winners. Due to DVD and syndictation, they cemented they're legacy for decades to come.

How many of us here can make that claim?

 

[Thrall]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

cultcross said:

Anwar said:
DS9's freedom came from being syndicated and not at one network's whim like VOY and ENT were, Behr is just an ungrateful prat who doesn't appreciate that Berman actually did help to keep the studio off the DS9's crew for things and blames him for utterly ridiculous stuff.

And anyways, you're just biased against anything Berman had a hand in, meaning you'd naturally come in and try to minimize whatever role he had in anything.

A number of people, including Berman himself in an interview with the UK star Trek Magazine when Nicole de Boer joined DS9, have stated that Berman was not significantly involved in day-to-day creative operations on DS9 (which is what's being discussed here). True, he had a lot to do with the paperwork, network negotiations, scheduling, etc. - the nitty gritty of running a production, which is what he was good at. On DS9 however, he stayed out of the creative process, where he is not strong.

Yeah. He wanted The Dominion War to be three episodes. And when he was bitching about how "violent" and "depressing" the war stories were Ron Moore shot back "It's a fucking war! What do you mean it's too violent?!"

 

[Anwar]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

Oh please, he just wanted the Occupation story done in 6 episodes, not the whole war. Moore doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[SFRabid]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

I blame whomever is responsible for the dumbing down and soap opera elements of Enterprise. With the decon chamber and Vulcan massage being used to show so much skin it felt like the show was written for teenagers. No other series has reverted to that blatant display of sexuality. I always wondered if it was the writers or the network that put those two elements into the story.

 

[Anwar]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

I'd say both, though mostly on the part of the network.