Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek...

[EliyahuQeoni]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I couldn't stand that episode. Nice to see someone enjoyed it!

 

[misskim86]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

Ent failed because it was a 80s concept in 2002, easy as that

 

[USS KG5]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

misskim86 said:
Ent failed because it was a 80s concept in 2002, easy as that

It's even easier than that - all TV shows tend to show a growth in ratings, success for a bit and then a gradual fall. Trek had run for 18 years by the time it was cancelled and it finally fell below the line of viability after about a decade of decline.

Even the Simpsons will get cancelled one day you know.

 

[Noname Given]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

DrGojira said:
He never had the TCW worked out, and yet made the series revolve around it.

I hated the TCW myself; BUT, it was a mandate of the Paramount studio heads (not B&B) as they wanted an 'out' to bring in ppopular 24th century elements IF they needed to.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

In my couple of encounters with Braga he was a smart, pleasant and humorous guy. Since that can't honestly be said of many of his fannish critics I guess I'm in the "pro-Braga" camp.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

Starship Polaris said:
In my couple of encounters with Braga he was a smart, pleasant and humorous guy. Since that can't honestly be said of many of his fannish critics I guess I'm in the "pro-Braga" camp.

Well, if being 'pleasant' is a prerequisite for 'competence'...then there are alot more people in trouble than Braga's critics.

 

[misskim86]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

Sounds like he should have written for Seinfeld instead

 

[Seven of Five]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

Braga gets way too much flak around here. He was faced with the uneviable task of being the head writer on the two modern Trek shows that happened to be on a network that didn't know it's arse from it's elbow. Voyager and Enterprise in some cases had to be tailored to network specifics, which nixed some of the more creative story ideas from the get go. Take into account that modern Trek had been on air since 1987, and had been running out of creativity about ten years after that (maybe not even that long), it becomes clear that there would be some kind of downfall. King Ron Moore himself could have been in charge for 17 years and the same thing would have happened. Not necessarily in the same way. but it would have.












Okay, I know that Braga wasn't in charge for that period of time but I'm on my high horse here.

 

[RandyS]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

misskim86 said:
Sounds like he should have written for Seinfeld instead

You wanted bad writing on Seinfeld too?

 

[misskim86]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

Touché

 

[startrekwatcher]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

Brannon was one of TNG's better writers and had a hand in some of the better VOY installments. He penned what are arguably some of the biggest fan favorites-Cause and Effect, Parallels, All Good Things, Scorpion, Deadlock, Year of Hell, Power Play, Prey, Shuttlepod One, Distant Origin, Shockwave etc.

He was only really in charge in season five of VOY and alternated responsibilities in season six while developing ENT before handing the reins over to Biller in season seven. So he really wasn't in charge of VOY but a small portion of the time it was on the air.

He did energize VOY with Seven of Nine and the telefilms. So VOY's issues should be shared among Piller, Berman, Taylor, Biller, UPN etc.

You should also remember that Ron Moore, whom everyone loves to praise as a writing genuis, had a hand in the middling Generations. And the oft-bashed Nemesis was written by Logan and Berman. Braga had nothing to do with it.

The one show where criticism is fair game is ENT given his extensive involvement with that series. It was clear he was at times burnt out with a track record of being all over the place in terms of quality in writing. Season three improved probably because the arc played to his strengths in a lot of ways.

 

[The Habs Fan]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

Also, hasn't Manny Coto said that Brannon Braga did some uncredited re-writes on some Season 4 episodes? Berman is really the only one who deserves the blame. There's nothing wrong with Braga.

 

[exodus]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

Tom Riker said:
Berman is really the only one who deserves the blame.

It's widely known that Berman's hand was forced several times by Paramount to take Trek in directions he didn't want it to go in. He was very verbal in not wanting ENT. on the air until 3 or 4 years after Voyager. He knew Trek was on a decline but Paramount wouldn't have it, all they could see was $$$$. Berman did all he could to try and save Trek.

 

[RandyS]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

^Yeah, I always supected The decline in Star Trek wasn't Berman's fault. After all, the guy produced TNG, and co-created DS9, the two best things that ever happened to Star Trek.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

Therin of Andor said:

EliyahuQeoni said:
Carbon Creek
You're kidding, right?

One of my favourites!

Among one of the better episodes of the first two seasons, along with "First Flight."

 

[exodus]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

RandyS said:
^Yeah, I always supected The decline in Star Trek wasn't Berman's fault. After all, the guy produced TNG, and co-created DS9, the two best things that ever happened to Star Trek.

Exactly.

He stayed with Trek till the bitter end because he was one of the few in our corner. If he wasn't there to hold the reighs if even for a little bit, Paramount would have gutted Trek for all it was worth like miner in a gold mine.

Berman saw Trek the way Gene Roddenberry did because Gene taught him all he knew before he died, he worked side by side with Gene. After Gene died Paramount saw an oppertunity to try and make Trek something big and marketable as Star Wars. Notice how after Gene died Trek merchendise increased and how licensing was just throw around.

While at one point it was great for the fans, Trek's fan based isn't as large as Star Wars. So eventually they were bound to hit the wall by over saturating the market. So what once was cool, became way too much and all at one time.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

Noname Given said:

DrGojira said:
He never had the TCW worked out, and yet made the series revolve around it.

I hated the TCW myself; BUT, it was a mandate of the Paramount studio heads (not B&B) as they wanted an 'out' to bring in ppopular 24th century elements IF they needed to.

And the suits were the ones that wanted ENT to take place on a starship, the original concept for the series was that it would be Earth-bound for at least the first season and detail, like The Right Stuff and From the Earth to the Moon, the rise of warp drive exploration and Starfleet. I really liked this idea as it would've contained the drama to the early explorers/test pilots like the early NASA missions and the conflict with the Vulcans having a hand in preventing us from reaching outside our solar system. This kind of series could've also dealt with man's early attempts to colonize the solar system.

Also, this ENT wasn't the first time a prequel series was conceived. During some of the initial stages of DS9, one of the suggestions, in order to differentiate it from TNG, was to set the series before TOS. The idea didn't last long as they realized that it would be difficult to come up with a look that pre-dated the original.

 

[Katatak47]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

I think B & B have always taken way too much flak by people who most often don't stop to consider or aren't aware of all the forces at work between broadcast Network and creative production staffs. They see Exec Producers et al as the end-all be-all, the buck-stops-here category and it's not really that simple.

Berman had LONG ago warned about making "too many trips to the well". He could see the dangers in milking everything they could out of Trek before any cracks began to show.

Neither he nor Braga got to where they did by being stupid. They both did some fine creative work for Trek. As with all writers, they also had their share of duds, too. But I'd like to remember the successes and savor the shows as they were. Hindsight is always 20/20 so it's too easy for everyone to look back and complain 'oh that was a dumb move' or 'that wasn't canon' etc. But overall, I really think the pair did a good job when all is said and done.

I did, however, have to chuckle at Braga's comment about 'continuity', on his new job, tho'.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

Katatak47 said:
I think B & B have always taken way too much flak by people who most often don't stop to consider or aren't aware of all the forces at work between broadcast Network and creative production staffs. They see Exec Producers et al as the end-all be-all, the buck-stops-here category and it's not really that simple.

No, but it was quite easy for Berman and Braga to be yes-men and do what was required of them. Berman may claim now that he wasn't happy with how the franchise was treated, but it certainly did not stop him from putting is foot down or turning his back on the he made off of Trek.

If he and Braga has showed more integrity, perhaps one of them would have a more successful post-Trek career.

 

[cultcross]

Re: Brannon Braga found that taking the heat for Star Trek..

exodus said:
Berman saw Trek the way Gene Roddenberry did because Gene taught him all he knew before he died, he worked side by side with Gene.

i've heard tell from people, couldn't name a source, ill grant, but I've seen on this board that in fact Rick was the last person Gene wanted to take over. Also, by the last years of his life, 'what gene wanted' was the last thing the franchise needed. Gene was losing his marbles creatively, and ditching things that were his idea have almost invariably improved the modern trek series.

I also would not blame Berman or Braga exclusively for what went wrong in the franchise, no one (or two!) man is that powerful in a tv producing world, but I read Berman's PR bollocks and his 'frank and revealing' interviews with Star Trek magazine and others where he constantly sounded so smugly overconfident and completely dried up creatively. He'd constantly talk about this or that exciting plan, or how pleased he was with this or that element of ENT or Nemesis. Then when we actually saw the productions he was discussing, they were the same formulaic mediocrity.
Berman & Braga were not solely responsible for killing the franchise. But they oversaw the great slide from Trek's strongest time to its weakest, and that they must take some blame for.