Brainstorm - Starfleet Marines (alittle different)

[evilchumlee]

'Twas a joke, my friend, nothing more. Hence the wink emoji.

I am more curious as to, in the name of this thought experiment, sounds "Trekish." We have Crewman, so you could have Troopman, or Guardsman, but I guess I find the whole "Trekish" thing curious since we have use of US NAVY lingo across the board, especially in TOS. So, I want to respect the limits put down but they feel very arbitrary at times.

Nah I got it, just elaborated.

Some of what i'm going for with "Trekish" is somewhat arbitrary, as it's hard to strictly define and articulate an aesthetic. Things need to "feel" right. That's why I was hoping for a bunch of spitballs... some feel right, some feel wrong, but it's hard to pinpoint exactly what i'm looking for.

This whole thing gets more complex when we take into account the entirety of the Trek timeline. I think the aesthetic choices can move around... in the TOS/Movie-Era, I think we can go a bit more overtly militaristic than we would in the TNG+ Era. In an initial rough draft of this idea, I actually did have this organization begin it's like as "Starfleet Marine Corps." in the early Federation era and eventually morph into something less overt post-Khitomer Accords. As I was developing the political atmosphere of the birth of the Federation, things changed a bit.

I've always liked the name 'Starfleet Marines'. Simple, logical, efficient.

I was batting around simply "Starfleet Marines", and ended up with the compromise that it's not the organization's official name... but most people within Starfleet tend to just call them "Starfleet Marines".

and of course a different rank structure, but they are still Starfleet, and would possibly be rather hurt if they were ever called a separate force.

In this context, they *ARE* still Starfleet... just... a different branch of Starfleet. They exist under Starfleet Command, it's just separated the space fleet ("Navy") from ground forces.

As for the officer ranks: I see them as having eliminated the rank of Marine Captain (so as not to be confused with the naval rank), moving the two Lieutenant grades up (so you would go straight from 1st Lieutenant to Major), and adding a new rank - "sublieutenant", maybe? - as their equivalent of Ensign.

A part of me does like Sub-Lieutenant, as a nod to Vulcan involvement in its creation.

You also have colonel West from ST 6 as well.

Colonel West is one of the biggest reasons why I specifically wanted this organization to be a separate branch of Starfleet. I wanted the different rank structure, but I didn't think it made any sense to just have two different rank structures in the literal same organization.

In Star Trek Enterprise, there was a branch of United Earth Governments that acted similar to Marines - the Military Assault Command Operations - or MACO. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Military_Assault_Command_Operations

I have them account for here. They make up a good chunk of the initial personnel of the branch when it's created. In my reboot here, I did change the name though. It stands for (United Earth) Marine Command. MA-CO.

Actually the 21st/22nd centuries are the most fleshed out part of this so far, just beyond the scope of this particular thread.

In the Star Trek Hunter trek-verse, I maintained the old nation states as members of United Earth Governments (along with member colonies), each of which maintain military forces for homeworld and homeland defense. All of these forces are under the auspices of the United Earth Governments, which, in turn, is a founding member of the Federation.

So when Marines are needed, they are actually United States Marines (which developed an elite space-bound division known as the Space Hounds). Several stories in the Star Beagle Adventures series feature the Space Hounds, who wear a beagle patch on their uniforms as an identifier.

It's a neat idea, and my universe here does mirror some of that. On the Federation level, member worlds absolutely do still operate their own military forces, or at least can if they so choose. To get into the real nitty gritty of it... I also have old nation states of Earth existing... although they're a nominal existence and really just serve as administrative districts within United Earth and traditional/cultural groupings. The actual "governments" of those nations mostly exist to send representatives to the United Earth Parliament.

In this world, individual nations militaries existed in some form until sometime just shortly after the creation of the Federation, but really lost prominence in favor a United Earth military in the late 2150's. My ENT-Era actually has Earth Starfleet in direct competition with the US Space Force, both trying to assert dominance over Earth's space assets. Starfleet wins out, and by 2156-7 United Earth passes legislations to consolidate Earth's militaries into a single force. It takes about a decade for everything to fully transition, but realistically by the time the Federation comes into being, the individual national militaries of Earth are shrinking rapidly, and almost all of the space assets have been absorbed into Starfleet or the much smaller Earth Defense Force fleet.

The legacy of the USMC does live on in some form, as in this world it was very much the basis for United Earth Marine Command, and MACO's continue to exist within the EDF all the way through the 24th century. Earth only keeps a smalls standing force, preferring to send the vast majority of its support to Starfleet, but they exist.

Going on a tangent here, we do get some interactions with the various member worlds military groups. By the time we get to the Dominion War, I have a story arc about Starfleet getting pretty badly beaten up and Sisko being tasked to bring the Andorian Imperial Guard fleet into the active fighting. The Andorians had decline to commit forces to the frontlines, upset with how Starfleet was handling the war and argued due to Starfleet's incompetence, they needed to retain all of their assets for defense of Andor. Eventually, the Dominion stages an attack on Andorian territory and the Andorian fleet can't deal with the coordinated attack. Starfleet comes into the save the day, along with support from the Vulcan Expeditionary Fleet. That was enough for the Andorians to finally fully commit their home forces to the war effort.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

In an initial rough draft of this idea, I actually did have this organization begin it's like as "Starfleet Marine Corps."

SMaC

 

[evilchumlee]

Getting away from some nomenclature stuff, looking at the big picture of the entire history of this organization, I had some random thoughts. (henceforth i'm just going to say Marines when referring to the branch, for ease of communication)

While the Marines are definitely the underfunded underdog, some idea flow both ways. Sometimes Starfleet will do/make something that gets adopted, sometimes vice versa.

One of the ideas I had is that when we get into the TOS/LateTOS/Movie-Era, the "Monster Maroons" actually started their life as the Marines dress uniform. As Starfleet in general gets more militaristic during this era, they started borrowing more and more and realistically this is the "golden era" of the Marines. Starfleet actually starts looking more to them for inspiration, and a version of the Marine dress uniform ends up becoming the duty uniform for Starfleet for a time.

The Marines utilize the Monster Maroons for quite some time, well after Starfleet stops using them. It's pretty much THE dress uniform for the Marines. Starfleet just thought they were super neat for a time period and made a version of them for themselves.

As for equipment, they use essentially the same stuff as Starfleet, but they have some different kit. The Marines are slow to adopt new version of weapons... if it works, there's no need to change it. They prefer standardized, proven designs over the bells and whistles of Starfleet. By the time we get to the Dominion War, the Marines are using mostly the TNG-style Type 3 Phaser... it doesn't have the best in the way of ergonomics, but the Marines found it to be the most resilient and reliable design. However they all use, and still manufacture, 2280's Type 2 "Assault Phasers". They found it to be a superior model to the new models, which Starfleet tended to begin design more as tools than weapons. They've made some minor modifications over time, but at the core, they're using late-Movie-era Type 2 phasers (I compare them to the current use of an M1911... we still build them over a century later.) SOME of the fancier Starfleet stuff is of interest and they do utilize it. They have access to newer model phaser rifles, which are favored for certain applications (particularly, anything involving the Borg generally calls for cutting-edge tech).

In addition to the phasers, the Marines use "old fashioned" ballistic weapons. Energy/particle weapons are often a good choice, but there are times when they are prone to failure/interference. There have been several iterations over the years, generally carrying a "BR" designation. They are not the favored weapon, but they do see use. By the time of the Dominion War, replicator technology had been miniaturized to the point that they were able to integrate them into designs, creating a version of the "ABR" (Automatic Ballistic Rifle) that can self-replicate it's own ammunition, as well as the "TR" (Transporter Rifle), that we all know about in the famous TR-116.

"Hazard Teams" are specialized units whose mission is to be embedded onto a Starfleet vessel as semi-permanent crew to augment a ships Security forces. Hazard Teams are a fairly rare sight on Starfleet ships, generally assigned to vessels undergoing a long-term exploration mission.

 

[fireproof78]

One of the ideas I had is that when we get into the TOS/LateTOS/Movie-Era, the "Monster Maroons" actually started their life as the Marines dress uniform. As Starfleet in general gets more militaristic during this era, they started borrowing more and more and realistically this is the "golden era" of the Marines. Starfleet actually starts looking more to them for inspiration, and a version of the Marine dress uniform ends up becoming the duty uniform for Starfleet for a time.

The Marines utilize the Monster Maroons for quite some time, well after Starfleet stops using them. It's pretty much THE dress uniform for the Marines. Starfleet just thought they were super neat for a time period and made a version of them for themselves.

This makes sense, as I see this branch being a little more traditional, perhaps a bit insular at times, and the traditions give it that structure, so their uniforms reflect some of that history.

This whole thing gets more complex when we take into account the entirety of the Trek timeline. I think the aesthetic choices can move around... in the TOS/Movie-Era, I think we can go a bit more overtly militaristic than we would in the TNG+ Era. In an initial rough draft of this idea, I actually did have this organization begin it's like as "Starfleet Marine Corps." in the early Federation era and eventually morph into something less overt post-Khitomer Accords. As I was developing the political atmosphere of the birth of the Federation, things changed a bit.

Sure, and you can look at real world agencies and how they change based on the political climate. The War Department becomes the Defense department, or other such nomenclature changes. It's understandable from that point of view. Just that minimizing the military aspect is one that is difficult if you are going to rely upon more militaristic traditions.

But, overall, I would say you have found your path forward.

 

[evilchumlee]

This makes sense, as I see this branch being a little more traditional, perhaps a bit insular at times, and the traditions give it that structure, so their uniforms reflect some of that history.

It's part of the general reasoning of making it a separate branch, rather than just a sub-department of Starfleet. There's going to be an inherently different culture in this service. It's hard to have dedicated combat troops who tow the line of "we aren't the military!" while doing... exclusively military things.

Starfleet can get away with saying "we aren't the military" and having the culture of peaceful explorers.

So it makes sense that the Marines would have their own organization and traditions, and that they would be somewhat more insular, given the general political climate of the organization being somewhat unpopular, or at least considered as unnecessary.

Just that minimizing the military aspect is one that is difficult if you are going to rely upon more militaristic traditions.

Hence the thread

I think there's a way to do it. Hell, Starfleet as it's presented in Prime Trek does it to an extent. They ARE a military, even though they like to deny it, and have a bunch of military traditions. They just aren't particularly rigid with them.

That's sort of what i'm going for here... just with a lean more towards military. What I don't see in these Marines are some of the really rigid things we see in modern militaries. I don't see Starfleet Marines doing the robotic-style marching and such like that. Things like that would be much less rigid. The culture should be somewhat closer to Starfleet than it would be 2024 US Marine Corps, just not QUITE as far to the Starfleet side.

 

[fireproof78]

That's sort of what i'm going for here... just with a lean more towards military. What I don't see in these Marines are some of the really rigid things we see in modern militaries. I don't see Starfleet Marines doing the robotic-style marching and such like that. Things like that would be much less rigid. The culture should be somewhat closer to Starfleet than it would be 2024 US Marine Corps, just not QUITE as far to the Starfleet side.

Rigidity depends on the circumstance. Marching in formation is as much about camaraderie as it is apparent uniformity. Starfleet can be highly inflexible (see Tuvok) in its own doctrines, even if they are not rigidly formal.

Again, it goes back to purpose of the unit. Why do US Marines do what they do and how would that be informed by combat operations hundreds of years in the future? If you can answer the question of purpose then you can answer the question of structure.

For instance, the Starfleet Marines may not be rigidly formal but why not? Well, because they are already all in on supporting each and the Federation in their common goal so we don't need the break down process of training to make them in to one. They already possess that quality. Because of that they already show deference and respect to their superiors because they recognize the benefit of experience by those who have served longer. The Marines may appeal to a smaller section of the Federation population, but that comes with a sense of belonging, and even pride, because they are still "The Few."

You could create quite an interesting culture within Starfleet for those who join in, one of mutual respect and recognition of its members while still feeling uniquely Marine because of being less appreciated by others.

 

[evilchumlee]

Rigidity depends on the circumstance. Marching in formation is as much about camaraderie as it is apparent uniformity. Starfleet can be highly inflexible (see Tuvok) in its own doctrines, even if they are not rigidly formal.

Oh for sure. We've seen it a few times really.

For instance, the Starfleet Marines may not be rigidly formal but why not? Well, because they are already all in on supporting each and the Federation in their common goal so we don't need the break down process of training to make them in to one. They already possess that quality. Because of that they already show deference and respect to their superiors because they recognize the benefit of experience by those who have served longer. The Marines may appeal to a smaller section of the Federation population, but that comes with a sense of belonging, and even pride, because they are still "The Few."

I think we are largely mind melding here. At the core of Star Trek, in the future we do things to better ourselves, and the people around us. They have a different mindset than people of today do. Very much, the people joining the Marines do so because they genuinely want to. There are plenty of ways to instill camaraderie than synchronized movements, and other ways to instill a more disciplined way of thinking.

There likely still something of that... you can look at Nog at see that Starfleet Academy certainly has a "sir yes sir" aspect to it... but it seems to drop off after that. I think it would be similar here. Basic training would still have alot of the rigidity... once you are out, things get a bit more relaxed. Not quite as relaxed as Starfleet, but more so than a modern military.

You could create quite an interesting culture within Starfleet for those who join in, one of mutual respect and recognition of its members while still feeling uniquely Marine because of being less appreciated by others.

And this is really the crux of the whole thing. I want this to different and unique. The Marines would attract different types of people, but all for the same ultimate goal. They volunteer because they want to defend the Federation. Some people may join Starfleet for that, too, but it's really not Starfleet's primary mission. There are some people who are just wired to be soldiers. This gives them the purpose.

The people who join the Marines are fighters, they're soldiers. It's already not a super popular mindset for some in the Federation, and then with the unique socio-political circumstances i'm establishing, even less so when it's specifically Federation soldiers and not Earth, Vulcan, Andor, etc.

There's a vibe in my universe that the Federation tends to be barely holding itself together through political squabbling, and the very notion of the Federation having direct forces disagrees with many. There is a not insignicant chunk of Federation members would prefer a weaker central government with no direct military... mirror the real world, imagine if a few nations wanted to hand a powerful military over directly to the United Nations... it would not be popular.

Same idea here. Earth may be all in on a strong, centralized Federation. Not everyone else is.

 

[fireproof78]

There likely still something of that... you can look at Nog at see that Starfleet Academy certainly has a "sir yes sir" aspect to it... but it seems to drop off after that. I think it would be similar here. Basic training would still have alot of the rigidity... once you are out, things get a bit more relaxed. Not quite as relaxed as Starfleet, but more so than a modern military.

I am going to assume you have not met as many military members. Yes, early on there is "a grim faced cadet look" (to quote Heinlein) but that is to bring them in to culture. But, afterwards, you can have members joke, pull pranks, and on and on. Formality will depend on the situation, which is the case with Starfleet as well.

Though, to be fair, Starfleet doesn't use formations, but perhaps the Marines will.

There's a vibe in my universe that the Federation tends to be barely holding itself together through political squabbling, and the very notion of the Federation having direct forces disagrees with many. There is a not insignicant chunk of Federation members would prefer a weaker central government with no direct military... mirror the real world, imagine if a few nations wanted to hand a powerful military over directly to the United Nations... it would not be popular.

That's interesting. I wonder what would produce that? I can see the idea of a military force being a hot topic and causing disagreement, but what else would be causing political fracturing that it is barely held together?

 

[evilchumlee]

I am going to assume you have not met as many military members. Yes, early on there is "a grim faced cadet look" (to quote Heinlein) but that is to bring them in to culture. But, afterwards, you can have members joke, pull pranks, and on and on. Formality will depend on the situation, which is the case with Starfleet as well.

Though, to be fair, Starfleet doesn't use formations, but perhaps the Marines will.

Oh i'm aware it's not like that all the time. I was more referring to formations and the like, and the general formality. I just don't see that as being prevalent in Federation society.

That's interesting. I wonder what would produce that? I can see the idea of a military force being a hot topic and causing disagreement, but what else would be causing political fracturing that it is barely held together?

I'm trying to expand on the concept of multiple worlds trying to come together and form a cohesive whole. There will be inherent issues with that through the diversity of thought. I'm still working out like, the WHOLE thing, but I have a pretty firm grasp on the early Federation.

Earth is all-on the idea of the Federation. When it was being proposed, Earth pushed for a strong, centralized government that fully integrated the member worlds. Andor was strongly opposed, preferring this new Federation to be mostly a defensive alliance. The Vulcans tried to see both points and be the somewhat neutral party. The Tellarites complained about everything, because Tellarites (although in reality, they ALSO tended more towards the, for lack of a better phrase, "States Rights" side of things).

EVERYTHING in the Federation is a compromise. Nobody really gets what they want, but they get pieces of it. Politically, they were able to hammer out a compromise the organize the Federation in a similar manner to the European Union. A collection of sovereign nations, with a set of common laws, a shared economic structure, etc. It's less than what Earth wanted. It's more than what Andor wanted.

The topic of the military is what brought some real debates. Andor almost downright pulled out of the whole thing when it was suggested that there would be a Federal-level military. They had no interest giving up their military sovereignty. Tellar didn't want to pay for it. Vulcan had some ideological concerns. That's how Starfleet ended up as a Federation organization... they finally brokered a deal to allow member worlds to keep their own military forces, while there would also be a federal force that was more limited in scope. Andor begrudgingly agreed, on the caveat that they not treat this service as a "military" as much as a peacekeeping/law enforcement organization. It was generally agreed... although the "peacekeeping" was broadly worded, and some of the politicians got some wording added into section 31 to potentially give more broad powers... never the less, it was agreed to exist, but Andor and Tellar were against contributing much to it.

Earth decided, in an effort to keep this whole Federation idea alive, to make a huge sacrifice and essentially offer up it's Starfleet wholesale to Federation command. Earth would shoulder the burden of the initial investment into it by just... transferring Starfleet to Federation command. Andor as a whole wasn't particularly thrilled, feeling that just gave Earth undo sway over the Federation, but Shran stepped in and advocated for Starfleet. It was agreed, Starfleet transferred command to the Federation and integrated assets from the other fleets into it and reorganizing its command structure to integrate all the members into every level. As time goes on, Andor and Tellar become more supportive of Starfleet, but even by the 24th century they still contribute the least and prefer to spend their resources on their local defense.

In the grand scheme, the Federation is an absolute miracle, being able to bring together initially 4* worlds of vastly different cultures, two of which just years prior were involved in semi-open war with each other. Adding more members strengthens the Federation, but also adds a new layer of complexity.

*In a nod to the Federation's symbol having three prominent points of light, i'm having Tellar actually join slightly later. They're still considered a "founding member", but technically they didn't sign the original charter. It took them another 6 months to a year to actually ratify the charter... so technically, the Federation at it's actual conception was Earth, Vulcan and Andor. The Tellarites just had to be difficult about it, because Tellarites.

 

[fireproof78]

Oh i'm aware it's not like that all the time. I was more referring to formations and the like, and the general formality. I just don't see that as being prevalent in Federation society.

Well, there is a benefit to formations. Again goes back to what need does this function serve.

I'm trying to expand on the concept of multiple worlds trying to come together and form a cohesive whole. There will be inherent issues with that through the diversity of thought. I'm still working out like, the WHOLE thing, but I have a pretty firm grasp on the early Federation.

Got it.

So, you had referenced the MACOs and other units forming in to the Marine Division, and then becoming less idealogically preferred and downplayed later on? Am I following correctly?

The initial reaction by the founding worlds makes sense, and is closer to the Articles of Confederation of the United States, though with more federal power than those.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Would they be less trained in the scientific aspects of Starfleet? Would Marine ships have a small contingent of scientists onboard, much as Enterprise might have a small team of Marines?

What would it be like for a ship where the combat troops take the lead and the scientists in the minority, but will every now and then find moments they're very needed?

 

[fireproof78]

Would they be less trained in the scientific aspects of Starfleet? Would Marine ships have a small contingent of scientists onboard, much as Enterprise might have a small team of Marines?

What would it be like for a ship where the combat troops take the lead and the scientists in the minority, but will every now and then find moments they're very needed?

I mean, they still will have scientific needs, but won't utilize their own personnel. Look at how the US ARMY CORPS of ENGINEERS can be utilized both by military and nonmilitary agencies. There's no reason to train science officers when STARFLEET has ready made science officers. So, I could see science officers and senior department heads having assigned duties on MARINE ships.

I would imagine they would be more trained in various cultural and combat traditions and tactics of multiple cultures. Engineering teams would be more rugged and field trained, utilizing components in unique ways that maybe a bit more off the books.

I could see them, especially post Dominion War, utilizing California class ships for their missions and purposes.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

It would be interesting to see the scientists in the minority for a change, and how that would change the day-to-day functioning on the ship, missions, interpersonal conflict, etc.

 

[evilchumlee]

Well, there is a benefit to formations. Again goes back to what need does this function serve.

There is. I don't think it's completely necessary here. Possibly SOME.

What absolutely will not be happening is, and I don't know what a proper way to refer to it as, is the "robotic" type movements we see in modern militaries. It just doesn't fit the overall feel of Star Trek. As someone who is not military myself, it feels like it doesn't feel right even in 2024. I'm sure there are reasons... but this organization won't have that type of traditions.

So, you had referenced the MACOs and other units forming in to the Marine Division, and then becoming less idealogically preferred and downplayed later on? Am I following correctly?

Yes, no, kind of.

My thinking is that a couple years after Starfleet transfers to Federation command, at that point NOT having any kind of dedicated ground troops other than "security", operating much the same way NX-01 did, Starfleet makes the case that they do need them. They take a look at that the Xindi War and Romulan War to note how they had to call on other forces to give Starfleet the flexibility it needed in those situations.

It takes some time to convince the Federation Council to allow it, but eventually there's enough support that such a service would be necessary for some of mission. Shipboard security officers really aren't prepared for "Peacekeeping" duty. Starfleet engages in Anti-Piracy... they may need to forcefully board vessels, raid outposts, etc. and again, Starfleet security really isn't quite ideal for that.

So Starfleet Command gets the go ahead to organize "ground forces" for lack of a better term. (I guess "ground forces" works, but we're talking like, Land, Sea, Air and Space...). The thing is... Starfleet doesn't HAVE this. So Starfleet applied something of the model used in its creation, although without the benefit of Earth just... handing over a turn-key operation. Starfleet Command petitions member worlds to transfer personnel and materiel to its new command. They do, and just like Starfleet, to varying degrees. Earth gives the most, Vulcan the next, then Andor and Tellar give basically the bare minumum.

The absolute first organizational structure combined transferred units under a joint command, mirroring something like a NATO Task Force. The members transferred Divisions to Starfleet Command, and those Divisions continued to operate under their new command.

So the earliest iteration of the Marines consisted of MACO Divisions, Vulcan Commando Divisions, Andorian Imperial Guard Divisions, directly under Federation/Starfleet Command as opposed to their home world forces command (or, the Defense Council, which i've mentioned but haven't gone into overt detail.), as well as a smattering of small craft available for the aviation division.

The early days of the Marines are largely segregated, but relatively quickly as the branch matures, the force becomes completely integrated. The very first Divisions would establish and continue on some traditions... what was once the 1st Maco Division would eventually become just... 1st Marine Division, but it's divisional traditions and imagery would retain some of it's origin. I was thinking something like the 1st Vulcan Commands eventually become just, the 1st Commandos... their unit patch featuring the IDIC symbol, even after it's no longer an all-Vulcan Division.

The initial reaction by the founding worlds makes sense, and is closer to the Articles of Confederation of the United States, though with more federal power than those.

It's part of the inspiration, for sure.

Would they be less trained in the scientific aspects of Starfleet? Would Marine ships have a small contingent of scientists onboard, much as Enterprise might have a small team of Marines?

What would it be like for a ship where the combat troops take the lead and the scientists in the minority, but will every now and then find moments they're very needed?

This is a multiple part answer.

For one, the Marines don't really "ships". At least, not many. If they do have ships, they're small and intended almost exclusively for transport. They have... what might more accurate... "craft". Shuttles, fighters, bombers, things more like Runabouts, etc. But the Marines aren't out there flying around in Galaxy-Class ships or anything. A gutted-out Miranda, tops.

You are correct that these Marines would be less trained in science. Like, by and large probably next to no training, depending on what their actual job is. Basic knowledge of all the random stuff they might encounter out there would be useful, but for most of them the training about be only the basics.

They *DO* have access to science personnel. These people will generally be Starfleet, attached to the Marine command. In general, Science, Medical and Engineering would be things the Marines have access to, courtesy of Starfleet.

 

[fireproof78]

It takes some time to convince the Federation Council to allow it, but eventually there's enough support that such a service would be necessary for some of mission. Shipboard security officers really aren't prepared for "Peacekeeping" duty. Starfleet engages in Anti-Piracy... they may need to forcefully board vessels, raid outposts, etc. and again, Starfleet security really isn't quite ideal for that.

Which makes sense. Starfleet Security is closer to Military Police than ground forces in terms of configuration. Yes, they can do those jobs but that isn't their specialization. Having a Division that does follow through and be equipped for multi-modal combat operations, at least in practice, makes sense.

What absolutely will not be happening is, and I don't know what a proper way to refer to it as, is the "robotic" type movements we see in modern militaries. It just doesn't fit the overall feel of Star Trek. As someone who is not military myself, it feels like it doesn't feel right even in 2024. I'm sure there are reasons... but this organization won't have that type of traditions.

Makes sense.

The reasons will depend on the mission. So, if these team members can function together reasonably well then formations are less fitting. I understand the point of view though there is a benefit depending. Since these are more likely to be smaller units, rather than operating in larger operational theaters, it probably can work.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Well, both Navy and Coast Guard "military police" do form the nucleus of most low and medium risk boarding and port security teams (Air Force security also something similar to the latter).

But that sort of work is hours to days for the most part, though there are a few situations were it might be weeks or months for certain single-site deployments (and still company-level staffing at most), so it makes sense to have other branches/divisions for the large-scale, strategic-level operations.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

These people will generally be Starfleet, attached to the Marine command. In general, Science, Medical and Engineering would be things the Marines have access to, courtesy of Starfleet.

The conflicts write themselves - there's a rare plant in the middle of an imminent battlefield that needs saving - postpone the fight and send a stealth science team to extract samples, yes or no?

I imagine the Starfleet personnel, small as their contingent is, forming a tight knit group that work together often, rather than the rotating specialists forming Starfleet ship away teams. Everybody is cross-trained in more than one specialty, to maximize efficiency and utility, while minimizing numbers needed. Occasional guest star specialists are attached temporarily to the ship for the sake of certain special missions, leaving the crew when their pre-planned mission is finished.

 

[evilchumlee]

Which makes sense. Starfleet Security is closer to Military Police than ground forces in terms of configuration. Yes, they can do those jobs but that isn't their specialization. Having a Division that does follow through and be equipped for multi-modal combat operations, at least in practice, makes sense.

And realistically, a good majority of the time, that's what the Marines will be doing. There's not a ton of wars... they will be dealing with just kind of various things that pop up that a Starfleet ship isn't quite prepared for.

I can see a good deal of anti-piracy missions for them, going to take down an Orion Syndicate base of operations and what not. There are often skirmishes breaking out here and there. Through most of the TOS-era they'll be going back and forth with Klingons.

I was thinking about uniforms and what not. As noted they will... generally be pretty similar to whatever Starfleet is doing, not exact, and the Marines will likely have less uniform changes overall. I'll start around the DSC/SNW era because it's the earliest we start with Federation stuff...

Around the 2240's, their duty uniform is essentially the DSC away team armor/suit, obviously not with the armor vest all the time. This is also when the much vaunted "Monster Maroons" (this is only so we know what it's referring to... this retcon keeps the jackets in division colors for Starfleet) appear as the Marines dress uniforms, which Starfleet would later adopt a version of as their service uniform for a time. The Marines version did differ from the version Starfleet would adopt. Rather than a turtleneck under the jacket, a high collared, black shirt was worn. The jacket was the deep green color of the Marines, as opposed to the Red/Gold/Blue division colors of Starfleet.

The Marines continue to use this as their dress uniform through the 24th century, long after Starfleet abandoned it. By the mid-late 24th century, the duty uniforms between Starfleet and Marines are very similar. The Starfleet department colors are replaced by Marine Green, the Marines wear their own rank insignia, their unique comm badge, and generally will have a unit patch on their left upper arm.

The Marines keep the Voyager-style uniform, instead of adopting Starfleet's First Contact-era uniform, preferring the more utilitarian coverall/fatigue style, sometimes jokingly referred to by Marines as "the pajama's". The DS9/Voyager style uniforms also originated in the Marines, having transitioned to them much earlier, in the early 24th century, roughly around the time that Starfleet stopped using the Monster Maroons. Starfleet tried a few designs before adopting the Marine style for a time, altering it once again, while the Marines continued to use the same style.

The conflicts write themselves - there's a rare plant in the middle of an imminent battlefield that needs saving - postpone the fight and send a stealth science team to extract samples, yes or no?

Pretty much a magnified situation of Stargate SG-1, with Daniel Jackson trying to get the military dudes to stop doing military stuff all the time.

The thing is, this is fundamentally Star Trek, so even the Marines are going to be sympathetic to the idea of exploration and all that... but MUCH less likely to risks for it.

 

[valkyrie013]

Being your poaching people from Starfleet to bolster the ranks, they probably already have starfleet academy basic science training. However, Being an Expeditionary force, there not stopping to "Scan the Roses" as it were.. There going in, taking care of there objective.
Now you might have a mission where a team is escorting a science team on say a planet with VERY hostile native lifeforms. that might be one thing, or if there rescuing a scientist from some jail or alien penal colony.
There might be times where there on a more science orinted mission but they won't be the science part, they'll be the escort making sure the science party comes out of it Alive. them discovering a new X is just bonus.
Now they may, in there mission discover something of scientific value, and if there is time, they might perform a more detailed scan, or grab a sample, but they won't be the ones in the rear to perform any of the science. They won't be like StarGate SG1 where its 2 or 3 soldiers and a scientist on a team. ( usually)

I was thinking they's sitck with the more utilitarian Flight Suits as in Enterprise, pockets and all for "Casual" Ship board uniform.
As a mechanic, I wore overalls most of the time, still had a name patch, hat etc. it was my uniform.
Thinking of Marine uniforms, the Monster Maroons would be like the Dress Blues, used for formal ocasions etc. then at the bottom you would have some sort of Utility uniform, "Cammies" today, that you would put the armor over for operations. or for maitnence, some coveralls.

 

[Robert Bruce Scott]

As for equipment, they use essentially the same stuff as Starfleet, but they have some different kit. The Marines are slow to adopt new version of weapons... if it works, there's no need to change it. They prefer standardized, proven designs over the bells and whistles of Starfleet.

The U.S. Marines of Star Beagle Adventures are the polar opposite. They have a wide variety of weapons, including small submachine guns known as bullpups - which are really handy when you're in a dampening field or other environments in which phasers don't work or are inadvisable. They always carry the Marine knife (with a panoply of tools in the hilt) and at need use can openers (a sort of cross between a mallot and a tomahawk). They use extremely high-tech battle suits...

Well, if you read SBA, you'll encounter a lot of their tech and tactics. They're totally committed to what works - high tech or low tech and there are appropriate times for each.