Brainstorm - Starfleet Marines (alittle different)

I've been looking at both the US Army Special Forces and the Marine Raiders as I think the "less is more" approach of both is more applicable to this concept than the regular combat arms (though both can operate as and indeed lead infantry as needed):

Level 1:
- Special Forces use a basic functional unit ('A-Team') of twelve including an Army Captain, a (Chief) Warrant Officer and ten NCOs with specialisms in operations/intelligence, heavy weapons, EOD/combat engineering, medical and communications.

- Raiders split their function unit of fourteen operators into three sub-components, a HQ -- Marine Captain, Master Sergeant 2-i-C, a Communications Gunnery Sergeant and an Intelligence SNCO (Staff or Gunnery Sergeant) -- and two Tactical Elements -- led by a Staff Sergeant Operator, and including three Sergeant/Corporal Operators and a specialist medic per element.

- For the SEF, I'd probably drop the second commissioned officer and swap in the Staff NCO as second in command, but otherwise keep the Army structure (perhaps adding three extra heavy weapons or EOD/combat engineering specialists) or as it's a bit more flexible than the Marine version for the same size.

Level 2:

Special Forces Companies are split into six 'A-Teams' and a 'B-Team' HQ of a similar size for a component of around 85-90.

Marine Companies are much smaller, with only four Teams and a HQ Element for a compact component of ~60.

For SEF, I'd have the 150-person Detachment structured for either total or split operations with eight 15-person Teams and a 30-person HQ Element capable of splitting into two task units under the Detachment Commander (Major) and the Detachment XO or ranking Team Leader (Captain).

Level 3:

Above the A-B-C level, Special Forces are organised first into battalions (three specialist companies, and a support and battalion HQ) and then into groups (three or four battalions, roughly equivalent of a conventional regiment, but can draw on the resources of psychological/intelligence groups, a civil affairs brigade and logistics brigade and a similarly sized aviation command for a total force strength of 22 to 23,000.

The Marines are a leaner force of only about 1,500 (roughly the same as a single Special Forces Group) and requires support from existing MEFs and Army or Navy supply chains to operate long-term.
 
I've been looking at both the US Army Special Forces and the Marine Raiders as I think the "less is more" approach of both is more applicable to this concept than the regular combat arms (though both can operate as and indeed lead infantry as needed):

I like alot of that, and I do think it addresses a point in organization... the SEF may work better organized less in full out "Army" or "Marine" terms, and be organized more as we organize Special Forces today. The SEF Special Forces are like... Special Special Forces.

I think i'm less against other departments of Starfleet having some sort of specialized ground forces, although nowhere near the extent of the SEF. It would stand to reason that if i'm going to make Starfleet Security a sort of catch-all NSA/FBI/Homeland Security organization, they would reasonably have some forces.

Just for clarification purposes although not super relevant, In my own general expanding of the universe, I've decided that Starfleet Intelligence and Starfleet Security ARE separate organizations, but they weren't always. Starfleet Security grew from the ENT-era from not even an actual named department but just a sub-organization tasked with the security of Starfleet facilities, to getting it's down division and additional responsibilities, such as interstellar law enforcement and that grew to intelligence gathering.

A bit after the formation of the Federation and rapid expansion, Starfleet Security had too much on its plate and most of the intelligence apparatus was spun off into it's own division. Starfleet Security still engages in intelligence, but it's focused more domestically.

I'm keeping the Discovery-suggested idea that Section 31 was more legitimate at some point. Starfleet Security derived much of its authority from Section 31 of the charter and the intelligence side became colloquially known as "Section 31". It's Section 31 that splinters off and becomes "Starfleet Intelligence", but through the 22nd to the mid-23rd century, "Section 31" and "Starfleet Intelligence" are synonymous. Eventually, S31 gets out of control, "officially" disbanded and no longer a part of Starfleet Intelligence.

Both of those organizations would have some sort of more combat-oriented forces. The Starfleet Security people would probably be based around things like SWAT-style law enforcement, counter-terrorism, things of that nature. Starfleet Intelligence I would imagine would be geared towards agent extraction and what not.

The Fleet part of Starfleet wouldn't have much aside from its security officers. There might be more-highly trained security officers, but they are mostly trained for guard duty/military police-type roles.
 
I'm keeping the Discovery-suggested idea that Section 31 was more legitimate at some point. Starfleet Security derived much of its authority from Section 31 of the charter and the intelligence side became colloquially known as "Section 31". It's Section 31 that splinters off and becomes "Starfleet Intelligence", but through the 22nd to the mid-23rd century, "Section 31" and "Starfleet Intelligence" are synonymous. Eventually, S31 gets out of control, "officially" disbanded and no longer a part of Starfleet Intelligence.
This is reasonable, because even the US ARMY has three different Intelligence type services, including Counter-Intelligence Division, a full Army Command that collaborates with other Federal Intelligence agencies, among others. So, having two sections, is more than reasonable, as well as collaborating with more Federal services, i.e. the Federation Security office mentioned in Star Trek III.

The Fleet part of Starfleet wouldn't have much aside from its security officers. There might be more-highly trained security officers, but they are mostly trained for guard duty/military police-type roles.
Again, very reasonable to treat Security as a security force meant to secure installations and guard them, vs. proactive infantry moving in to territory, taking it and capturing it. Once established by Special Forces Operators, I could see SF Security moving in as support.

I've been looking at both the US Army Special Forces and the Marine Raiders as I think the "less is more" approach of both is more applicable to this concept than the regular combat arms (though both can operate as and indeed lead infantry as needed):

Level 1:
- Special Forces use a basic functional unit ('A-Team') of twelve including an Army Captain, a (Chief) Warrant Officer and ten NCOs with specialisms in operations/intelligence, heavy weapons, EOD/combat engineering, medical and communications.

- Raiders split their function unit of fourteen operators into three sub-components, a HQ -- Marine Captain, Master Sergeant 2-i-C, a Communications Gunnery Sergeant and an Intelligence SNCO (Staff or Gunnery Sergeant) -- and two Tactical Elements -- led by a Staff Sergeant Operator, and including three Sergeant/Corporal Operators and a specialist medic per element.

- For the SEF, I'd probably drop the second commissioned officer and swap in the Staff NCO as second in command, but otherwise keep the Army structure (perhaps adding three extra heavy weapons or EOD/combat engineering specialists) or as it's a bit more flexible than the Marine version for the same size.

Level 2:

Special Forces Companies are split into six 'A-Teams' and a 'B-Team' HQ of a similar size for a component of around 85-90.

Marine Companies are much smaller, with only four Teams and a HQ Element for a compact component of ~60.

For SEF, I'd have the 150-person Detachment structured for either total or split operations with eight 15-person Teams and a 30-person HQ Element capable of splitting into two task units under the Detachment Commander (Major) and the Detachment XO or ranking Team Leader (Captain).

Level 3:

Above the A-B-C level, Special Forces are organised first into battalions (three specialist companies, and a support and battalion HQ) and then into groups (three or four battalions, roughly equivalent of a conventional regiment, but can draw on the resources of psychological/intelligence groups, a civil affairs brigade and logistics brigade and a similarly sized aviation command for a total force strength of 22 to 23,000.

The Marines are a leaner force of only about 1,500 (roughly the same as a single Special Forces Group) and requires support from existing MEFs and Army or Navy supply chains to operate long-term.
This all seems very reasonable.
 
So, having two sections, is more than reasonable, as well as collaborating with more Federal services, i.e. the Federation Security office mentioned in Star Trek III.

It works with the general vibe of what i'm going for and how the differentiation between "Starfleet" and "Federation" tends to work.

Starfleet -insert agency- is an independent organization directly under the authority of the Federation with the jurisdiction to act on behalf of the Federation.

Federation -insert agency- would be something more like an alliance, UN, European Union, etc. type agency. More of a mult-national agency set up by contributions from member worlds.

It's somewhat splitting hairs, but Federation assets would still belong to a member world. Starfleet assets belong to the Federation as a whole.

I want the Federation to be set up closer to the UN overall. Member worlds representation comes through Ambassadors sent to the Federation Council.
 
Starfleet -insert agency- is an independent organization directly under the authority of the Federation with the jurisdiction to act on behalf of the Federation.

Pretty much.

ederation -insert agency- would be something more like an alliance, UN, European Union, etc. type agency. More of a mult-national agency set up by contributions from member worlds.

You certainly could have this be the case, though I'd suggest more "EU" than "UN" as the former is an actual supranational level of government whereas the latter is basically a supranational debating society.

I want the Federation to be set up closer to the UN overall. Member worlds representation comes through Ambassadors sent to the Federation Council.

Given the existence of High Commissioners (who IRL manage Imperial and now Commonwealth interests in internally sovereign member nations) canonically, I'd be inclined to pivot towards the Commonwealth (or the EU as previously noted), as it at least has some of the relevant characteristics, whereas the UN is pretty much lacks all of them.

YMMV.
 
You certainly could have this be the case, though I'd suggest more "EU" than "UN" as the former is an actual supranational level of government whereas the latter is basically a supranational debating society.

Given the existence of High Commissioners (who IRL manage Imperial and now Commonwealth interests in internally sovereign member nations) canonically, I'd be inclined to pivot towards the Commonwealth (or the EU as previously noted), as it at least has some of the relevant characteristics, whereas the UN is pretty much lacks all of them.

Yeah, somewhere around UN and EU. I used "UN" more as a generic term.

I've already established a NATO-like counterpart for Starfleet.

I think the Federation would have some aspects EU and UN.
 
- For the SEF, I'd probably drop the second commissioned officer and swap in the Staff NCO as second in command, but otherwise keep the Army structure (perhaps adding three extra heavy weapons or EOD/combat engineering specialists) or as it's a bit more flexible than the Marine version for the same size.

Another option I'm considering for scalability is the permanent members of the SEF are all warrant or commissioned officers*, so that each Operator can also serve as Team Leader for dedicated specialist teams or sections of enlisted Reservists if required.

* This would also be the case with Fleet Ops for starships and support vessels, though not necessarily starbases and ground outposts.
 
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