Braga simply did not watch the show

[TheGodBen]

As for it "forcing you to be unique through words rather than the font you're using" lolwut.

Well it is quite simple, if you want people to remember who you are you have to say interesting things, in some cases that means having an incredible understanding of the subject matter and being able to debate it well, in other cases it means desperately trying to be funny in an attempt to prove that you could have been a successful comedian if your father hadn't forced you to go the college and get a real job. I chose the later path. Several people on this board now know me, and about 5% of those people like me, all because I try too hard to be noticed by my words.

For what it is worth, you have made a promising start here, you stood toe to toe with Anwar when complaining about Voyager's continuity issues. I have seen Commodores crack under that pressure.

[highlight]I don't know what you're talking about, guys. [/highlight]

He's a witch! Burn him!!

 

[Withers]

For what it is worth, you have made a promising start here, you stood toe to toe with Anwar when complaining about Voyager's continuity issues. I have seen Commodores crack under that pressure.

I appreciate that... though apparently the insinuation that there might be things in Voyager that potentially went over his head warranted a threat from a Moderator so that promising start might turn out to be little more than a flash in the pan. Either way- it was worth it.

When it comes to mocking Voyager...
If not now, when? If not me, who?

-Withers-​

 

[Anwar]

It was less the insinuation and more the implication that another poster has the intelligence of a ten-year old, but I'm not the easily offended type when it comes to defending Voyager.

 

[TheGodBen]

I appreciate that... though apparently the insinuation that there might be things in Voyager that potentially went over his head warranted a threat from a Moderator so that promising start might turn out to be little more than a flash in the pan. Either way- it was worth it.

It can be difficult, I know, I once said some very nasty things to him in a PM, but later I realised that all my anger was misplaced sexual desire. So hold back on the personal insults in future, it doesn't help your argument and it ruins a potential future romantic interest.

 

[Withers]

Did anyone elses nipples just get hard?

"It's not a pleasant thing to think of yourself [as] to blame. There are other factors involved with Star Trek losing its audience appeal over the years, but [...] I will take my share of the blame creatively. It's almost impossible for me to sit here and say 'yes, I did this, that, and this wrong' and I'm certainly not going to get on the internet and look at what the fans think, because that would be too painful. But give it a little more time [and] I'm sure I can look back and figure out what the fuck I did wrong."

I think this is an important quote to address if this thread is ever going to continue in a meaningful fashion (not that my nipples aren't meaningful but still...)

I have a little more respect for the guy in that at least he acknowledges that fans weren't exactly thrilled with the final installments of his Trek.


-Withers-​

 

[Anwar]

I appreciate that... though apparently the insinuation that there might be things in Voyager that potentially went over his head warranted a threat from a Moderator so that promising start might turn out to be little more than a flash in the pan. Either way- it was worth it.

It can be difficult, I know, I once said some very nasty things to him in a PM, but later I realised that all my anger was misplaced sexual desire. So hold back on the personal insults in future, it doesn't help your argument and it ruins a potential future romantic interest.

Eh, if it's any consolation I think we both ended up taking the VOY arguments we had too seriously and went kind of nuts over it. I made it clear I don't think the show was perfect and I even did a re-write with my own ideas, and we agreed that none of the Trek series were perfect and acceptable to everyone.

And Braga really showed himself to be the bigger man with that quote. I doubt most of his detractors here would be capable of admitting their flaws like that over their work.

 

[Withers]

Eh, if it's any consolation I think we both ended up taking the VOY arguments we had too seriously and went kind of nuts over it. I made it clear I don't think the show was perfect and I even did a re-write with my own ideas, and we agreed that none of the Trek series were perfect and acceptable to everyone.

I truthfully wasn't trying to offend you with my comment. Just a little colorful barbing to keep it spicy, ya know? I love doing this on forums, especially on topics I actually know something about. It's back and forth like ours that keeps these forums running 9 years post the final episode of a show like Star Trek. Anyway, I honestly have fun debating, and if anything seems too personal I honestly don't mean it to be. Frankly, I'm thankful you're here (adamant debaters are a rarer and rarer breed on forums.)

And Braga really showed himself to be the bigger man with that quote. I doubt most of his detractors here would be capable of admitting their flaws like that over their work.

Have to admit it took some stones. I mean were I in his shoes I'd defend to the death whatever it was I created, fans be damned. Regardless of how certain things turned out I can honestly believe he worked hard... just maybe in the wrong areas or something. But you can't win 'em all and if they never took chances we'd never have some of the great Trek that we do. Some of it works and some of it doesn't but without trying we'd never know.


-Withers-​

 

[AJBryant]

You'll find no one uses it because you have to go out of your way to do it. The only ones that do stand out a bit. I mean on a forum about five times the size of this one I know of maybe five people who regularly post in a color other than white.

I'd rather people stand out by the quality of their words rather than the display of them.

But, hey. I just used to be an editor, so I'm used to precious snowflakes having their own ideas about things like this. I'm also used to stomping them into the dust.

 

[kimc]

So hold back on the personal insults in future, it doesn't help your argument and it ruins a potential future romantic interest.

Now there's some sound advice.

 

[Withers]

But, hey. I just used to be an editor, so I'm used to precious snowflakes having their own ideas about things like this. I'm also used to stomping them into the dust.

What is it about age that makes people remember their younger years as though they were filled with examples of kicking ass and taking names? Was everyone a bull fighting Marine in their twenties that was born before 1980?

Now there's some sound advice.

Barbs must be closely monitored thread integrity, however, not quite so important eh?


-Withers-​

 

[kimc]

Barbs must be closely monitored thread integrity, however, not quite so important eh?

Finally, you're catching on!

Barbs, or flames as they're called here are against the board rules. This is a privately-owned board and that's just how the folks who pay to keep things running want it.

As for "thread integrity" that's moderator discretion. Speaking of which, in order to avoid any further veering off topic please address any future comments regarding the rules, etc via pm to either myself, my co-mod Akiraprise or one of the board admins.

Back to topic...

 

[Withers]

As for "thread integrity" that's moderator discretion. Speaking of which, in order to avoid any further veering off topic please address any future comments regarding the rules, etc via pm to either myself, my co-mod Akiraprise or one of the board admins.

Back to topic...

I'd have done it (I had a few words for you but they're gone now) but it's like my 4th day so I can't PM anybody (if I understand correctly how the system works.)

But Yeah! For the third time (lol) the Braga quote... for this particular thread I think its important and it shows a lot about the guy and maybe even discredits the notion he didn't watch the show. Wasn't he kind of busy doing a lot at this point anyway?


-Withers-​

 

[TheGodBen]

Eh, if it's any consolation I think we both ended up taking the VOY arguments we had too seriously and went kind of nuts over it. I made it clear I don't think the show was perfect and I even did a re-write with my own ideas, and we agreed that none of the Trek series were perfect and acceptable to everyone.

Agreed, we both took it too far. Hopefully in the future we will be able to agree to disagree in peace.

Now there's some sound advice.

I read it on the back of a box of cereal.

 

[CaptainStoner]

Typographically, though, there are a lot of reasons to not center the text of your posts. Readability is one of them, for example.

The great thing about forums is you only read what you want to read... or in your case, are able to read.

Oh, I am able to read your posts. But by centering your text you make it unnecessarily hard to do so. At the end of each line my eyes have to search for the beginning of the next line. That might be feasible with short text, but can be quite frustrating with longish posts.​

It's true, Withers. Although individuality and quirkiness is to be celebrated, the fact of the matter is that centering long passages of text creates a random interval that makes it difficult to read from line to line...slows the tracking. It's just plain annoying. Setting it to the right would be easier, if one wants to be different, and better understood.

I would respectfully suggest that your thoughts and writing can stand on their own here, without the need for special treatment.

But the real problem here is that BRAGA STILL HASN'T WATCHED THE SHOW!!!!!!!!

 

[Withers]

It's true, Withers. Although individuality and quirkiness is to be celebrated, the fact of the matter is that centering long passages of text creates a random interval that makes it difficult to read from line to line...slows the tracking. It's just plain annoying. Setting it to the right would be easier, if one wants to be different, and better understood.

I would respectfully suggest that your thoughts and writing can stand on their own here, without the need for special treatment.

I'm honestly surprised it has garnered as much attention as it has. At the moment it is split down the middle as to whether or not it does anything to readability of my posts. For the record, the only reason I ever did it was out of habit (one started a decade ago), and never to "draw attention" to myself necessarily. The reason I'm doing it right now is out of spite but not for any of the three people who said it made it more difficult to read. Eventually... I might stop. But I doubt it. Either way I really do appreciate your kind way of asking me to knock it off. Were it just you I'd totally comply.

As to Braga (now that all the personal stuff is out of the way)... is it just the continuity stuff that makes you think that? I mean, as a whole, the show got better as time went on. The characters didn't advance much (like they did on previous incarnations) but the better episodes are more toward the end of the series... just like in every other Trek I've ever watched.

...It just never got as good as the other ones did. I'm not sure lambasting Braga is necessarily fair given that 'you can't win 'em all' and the guy was seriously busy at the time. That doesn't excuse everything but it is something to consider.


-Withers-​

 

[CaptainStoner]

^ no worries, Withers. Being open to different ways of doing things is part of the Trek way. On your planet, I can only assume everyone writes that way.
As for Braga, and him not watching the show, I have to confess....I haven't watched Voyager myself, yet, except a few episodes.
All I can say is, it has strong intitial episodes. Best premiere ep, and a nice serial feel from the beginning. What follows, I couldn't say.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Borg babies (such as seen in "Q Who") don't require sexual intercourse by two adult Borg. Just some test tubes and petri dishes.

The reason I'm doing it right now is out of spite

Then please don't. Because wouldn't "spite" count as trolling?

 

[brcarthey]

As to Braga (now that all the personal stuff is out of the way)... is it just the continuity stuff that makes you think that? I mean, as a whole, the show got better as time went on. The characters didn't advance much (like they did on previous incarnations) but the better episodes are more toward the end of the series... just like in every other Trek I've ever watched.

​

i rarely get into these argument threads like this b/c it comes down to "beauty being in the eye of the beholder" with regards to each series.

as someone who watched all the series except ENT, i have to respectfully disagree that the "characters didn't advance much (like they did on previous incarnations." i thought many of the characters did advance and change as the series went on including, paris, torres, seven, the doctor, neelix, and even janeway. even kim and kes did advance a little, though it was definitely more subtle. the only two who didn't were chakotay and tuvok (though his is excusable). as a whole, i thought most of the characters in this series evolved as opposed to just a few of them in the other series. however, i think the show (like most shows) got better each year for the most part.

i feel VOY's storylines and production had a major horse collar around its neck called UPN. i have read in plenty of instances where storylines and ideas were nixed by TPTB at UPN (a TNG-style episodic series with little to no story arcs, maintain an upbeat and optimistic feeling overall, etc.). i think if VOY had been a syndicated series like TNG and DS9, the VOY production crew artistic license might have had less restrictions. so while, VOY is still my favorite series i recognize some of the things it lacked. but, then, none of the trek series is perfect.

 

[Withers]

Then please don't. Because wouldn't "spite" count as trolling?

You're welcome to report me if you think motives are a warnable offense.

i rarely get into these argument threads like this b/c it comes down to "beauty being in the eye of the beholder" with regards to each series.

You're right in this regard. I, for example, can't relate to Kes at all. Nothing about the character reminds me of myself or anything I personally relate to. I would've taken different actions than she did throughout her appearances and there isn't anything about her behavior I would choose to emulate. As such I didn't really care for her. There's someone else on the board who feels exactly the opposite. Neither one of us are wrong... it just comes down to the way we view the character in the end.

i thought most of the characters in this series evolved as opposed to just a few of them in the other series. however, i think the show (like most shows) got better each year for the most part.

That's where I'd have to disagree. I think most of the characters in this show stayed, more or less, exactly how they were initially portrayed with exceptions being the characters who were introduced with elements to their personality that were antithetical to Starfleet ideals (like the Doctor and Seven of Nine who had to evolve or one would start to wonder why they simply weren't booted off the ship.)

Where as DS9 made heavy use of the War to define characters Voyager didn't take advantage of the idea that being stranded, far from home, would change anybody or make them act differently as the years progressed as often as they could have. By the end of the series I truly felt like only the three characters they focused on went anywhere except for Torres (who just seemed less edgy).


-Withers-​

 

[kimc]

Then please don't. Because wouldn't "spite" count as trolling?

You're welcome to report me if you think motives are a warnable offense.​

Actually, he's right. From the FAQ:

Trolling is an internet term that means you're not posting to actually start or participate in a good discussion, but simply to anger another member or group of members. Posting in order to bait other users, moderators or administrators will not be tolerated.

Users who the board ownership believes participate on the Trek BBS to troll, irritate, upset or harm the general BBS population its staff or the board itself may have their accounts locked without prior notice or announcement in order to protect the BBS and its participants.