That's where I was, recently.
It's a kind of sad glow, no?
Getting ready to read the re-launch...
Bought season six
- Thread starter Amasov
- Start date
That's where I was, recently.
It's a kind of sad glow, no?
Getting ready to read the re-launch...
As I stated previously, I already own season four and five. I've seen the pilot, a few episodes from season two (The Jem Hadar) and three (Past Tense) - the first half of season six I saw on the air in addition to the final episode. I purchased season six two weeks ago and season seven last week.
I already knew the basic premise of the series, but I hadn't seen the entire series. I recently purchased seasons one, two, and three and had been watching them already, so as I speak, I've completed my viewing of the entire series.
I have to say, I thought the Dominion War really was the forefront of this season, but it doesn't seem to be. The first five episodes focused heavily on it, but I notice they stray away from it a bit before picking it up towards the end of the season.
I always wanted to see "Far Beyond the Stars," and it's now easily one of my favorite Star Trek episodes.
And "One Little Ship" was just a lot of fun.
This is my problem with this series, there is a war on but they seem very intent on not really following it.
Wedding
Alternate universe Barial sex
Bashir mutant friends (war based drama)
Ferringi on Empok Nor (Great ep, war based)
Crazy Dukat and Sisko lost in space
Morns fake death
Sisko as a sci fi writer on Earth
One little ship (smells of a gimmick)
Orian syndicate? Awesome ep but didn't fit with war.
Worf and Jadzia lost in alien jungle *snore*
Kira back in time meeting her mum
Bashir/ section 31 dominion spy (war based drama again)
Bring romulans into the war (Big standout ep
x2)Odo/Kira romance, yeah ok but *snore*
Par wraiths (no war here)
Valiant (hate the kids grrr but at least this was war action)
Quark dressed as a girl lol (wheres that war?)
Future lost Molly???
Sound of her voice - all talk no action...
As you can see the war really does go totally missing.
There is a war theme in some eps but its almost like they try to avoid it intentionally.
There is war "story" just no war "action"
It's a big big miss... It leaves you craving for any little tidbits about the war efforts.
Keep in mind that, having retaken DS9 and firmly secured the wormhole from further Dominion reinforcements, the war front drastically changed. It became a series of territorial losses and gains for both sides, eventually going in the Alpha/Beta Quandrant alliance's favor with the inclusion of the Romulans. Not a whole heck of a lot of fighting would be going on near the station anymore, especially so since it's in Bajoran territory. And, since the show was specifically about the people on the station, there's going to be many instances where they aren't involved in the current fighting. In fact, they'll probably have plenty of 'just another day' type of days, unless called upon for specific war missions.
Well personally I appreciated some of those deviations from the war arc story. I agree that some of them were lame, but I also felt a fair number of them were welcome departures, like the one with Jadzia and Worf in the jungle, the one about Morn, and the Kira/Odo/Vic one. I like the ongoing/serialized war arc a lot, but it was nice to have a break from it once in awhile, especially with those lighter, more fun episodes, like the last two I mentioned. Otherwise, the whole seasons might just get too depressing and/or tedious!
I'm also really glad they did that episode with Worf and Jadzia alone. I always had trouble finding the Jadzia and Worf relationship plausible or interesting and that episode with him saving her life against orders was the one that I think finally gave it some juice. The wedding episode was good too with showing how they do fit together despite how different they were, but I like how that episode with them on a mission together finally believably showed how and why Worf was passionate about her and loved her. Since it accomplished that goal, I didn't think it was just a throwaway episode. As long as they accomplished some solid character building, those non-war episodes during wartime were generally fine by me.
I'm also really glad they did that episode with Worf and Jadzia alone. I always had trouble finding the Jadzia and Worf relationship plausible or interesting and that episode with him saving her life against orders was the one that I think finally gave it some juice. The wedding episode was good too with showing how they do fit together despite how different they were, but I like how that episode with them on a mission together finally believably showed how and why Worf was passionate about her and loved her. Since it accomplished that goal, I didn't think it was just a throwaway episode. As long as they accomplished some solid character building, those non-war episodes during wartime were generally fine by me.
I have to say, I thought the Dominion War really was the forefront of this season, but it doesn't seem to be. The first five episodes focused heavily on it, but I notice they stray away from it a bit before picking it up towards the end of the season.
I always wanted to see "Far Beyond the Stars," and it's now easily one of my favorite Star Trek episodes.
And "One Little Ship" was just a lot of fun.
This is my problem with this series, there is a war on but they seem very intent on not really following it.
Wedding
Alternate universe Barial sex
Bashir mutant friends (war based drama)
Ferringi on Empok Nor (Great ep, war based)
Crazy Dukat and Sisko lost in space
Morns fake death
Sisko as a sci fi writer on Earth
One little ship (smells of a gimmick)
Orian syndicate? Awesome ep but didn't fit with war.
Worf and Jadzia lost in alien jungle *snore*
Kira back in time meeting her mum
Bashir/ section 31 dominion spy (war based drama again)
Bring romulans into the war (Big standout ep
Odo/Kira romance, yeah ok but *snore*
Par wraiths (no war here)
Valiant (hate the kids grrr but at least this was war action)
Quark dressed as a girl lol (wheres that war?)
Future lost Molly???
Sound of her voice - all talk no action...
As you can see the war really does go totally missing.
There is a war theme in some eps but its almost like they try to avoid it intentionally.
There is war "story" just no war "action"
It's a big big miss... It leaves you craving for any little tidbits about the war efforts.
So basically all you wanted was a bunch of space battles?
I think you're watching the wrong show buddy!
Which is fair enough, I can understand DS9's not for everyone. But I personally loved pretty much all of those episodes. DS9 was NOT solely about the Dominion War, it wasn't a show that promised epic space battles and ACTION, ACTION and MORE ACTION!
It was a show about a place - and the people who lived there. Sometimes they were fighting a war, but there was more to their lives than the war! Sure, a war was going on, but that doesn't mean everyone puts their lives on hold - in many cases, wars and the threat of death brings people closer together!
The fact that you can actually criticise amazing episodes like Far Beyond the Stars, Wrongs Darker than Death or Night, The Sound of Her Voice, and Waltz for not being 'war-centric' makes it clear to me that... DS9 is really not for you.
I personally enjoy romance episodes, so I've always found You Are Cordially Invited, Change of Heart and His Way to be enjoyable episodes. I never had a problem with the Prophets or Pah-Wraiths, so I found the Reckoning to be an excellent episode. And while they might not be 'up there', I also enjoy Ferengi and Mirror Universe episodes, though Resurrection is probably my least favourite. And the rest are also great, war-centric or not!
Also gets told he will "never get a command of his own"
Yet he gets to take the Defiant out by himself all the time.
Anybody else think that's a contradiction??
You_Guyz
Commander
I agree, it really frustrates me when people say they only liked DS9 for the Dominion war and they don't appreciate everything else the show offered - The Bajor plot and the Cardassiand etc.
Also gets told he will "never get a command of his own"
Yet he gets to take the Defiant out by himself all the time.
Anybody else think that's a contradiction??
Growing up you were never grounded and then asked to go to the store to get milk?
I'm glad its not just me who feels this way.
I mean, don't get me wrong, the war was awesome, space battles can be fantastic. But the main reason I liked the war was because of the way it impacted our characters. We wouldn't have gotten fantastic episodes like In The Pale Moonlight, or Its Only A Paper Moon, if it wasn't for the war.
But I liked the pacing, especially when they put a funny or at least, a less serious, episode straight after a couple of dramatic, heavy war episodes.
And I'm always a bit... puzzled, when people say they didn't like the Bajorans, the Cardassians, or the Prophets/Pah-Wraiths/Emissary. Those three elements were pretty much integral to the show! The exploration of both the Bajorans and the Cardassians - both as a whole culture, and the various individuals we meet - is one of the best parts of DS9! And I personally enjoyed Sisko's journey to become The Emissary (in attitude/beliefs, not just in name), and found the Prophets and Pah-Wraiths intriguing and interesting as well.
Then again, I love pretty much everything about DS9, including the Mirror Universe, the Ferengi episodes, and all of the characters. So if people can hate those minor aspects, then I suppose its likely they can hate the major aspects as well.
I am puzzled when people say that don't like Bajorans, or Cardassians, or the stories about the Occupation; and I liked the Prophets/Emissary storyline until the Pah-wraiths were introduced. But in season 6 and 7 the Prophets/Pah-wraiths thing was utter simplistic good vs evil rubbish, unworthy of the show that used to be about intelligent and complex portrayal of politics and religion. I've ranted a lot of times about everything that was wrong about this plot, so I maybe I should just link to it... ah, here it is, in this post I linked I listed all or most of the problems with the Space Jesus/red eye Dukat/eeeevil Pah-wraiths story.
I'm glad its not just me who feels this way.
I mean, don't get me wrong, the war was awesome, space battles can be fantastic. But the main reason I liked the war was because of the way it impacted our characters. We wouldn't have gotten fantastic episodes like In The Pale Moonlight, or Its Only A Paper Moon, if it wasn't for the war.
But I liked the pacing, especially when they put a funny or at least, a less serious, episode straight after a couple of dramatic, heavy war episodes.
And I'm always a bit... puzzled, when people say they didn't like the Bajorans, the Cardassians, or the Prophets/Pah-Wraiths/Emissary. Those three elements were pretty much integral to the show! The exploration of both the Bajorans and the Cardassians - both as a whole culture, and the various individuals we meet - is one of the best parts of DS9! And I personally enjoyed Sisko's journey to become The Emissary (in attitude/beliefs, not just in name), and found the Prophets and Pah-Wraiths intriguing and interesting as well.
http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3363038&postcount=109
And the Mirror Universe was good in TOS "Mirror, Mirror", but DS9 made it into an unbearable mess. If only they had the senses to stop after "Crossover", where it was still interesting (although I had problems with it even back then), but they had to turn into nonsense that was just an excuse to have the actors dress funny and overact and to include some girl-on-girl action for the horny straight male demographics. (And don't get me started on the whole 'evil bisexual/homosexual people' meme, here even worse because their good counterparts were heterosexual. The writers obviously didn't really think this one through.)
I tried to read some of the DS9 MU literature ("Saturn's Children") thinking it might be better without the 'let's have some silly/horny action' factor of the TV, but I soon realized it was a waste of time. Completely lazy, unimaginative and shallow. What is the point of the MU if your MU versions of canon characters are the same, only less interesting and more one-dimensional? How likely is it that those people would have exactly the same relationships as their counterparts in the Prime Universe, without any of the historical and political situation that caused those relationships to be like that in the first place? The saddest thing is that, as a concept, MU is not bad, and I've actually seen fanfics that made a better use of it and came up with more compelling and convincing MU versions of canon characters!
The trouble with the Bajorans is they were so prominently in the picture during the first two seasons, which just wasn't done with an alien species in Trek before. You'd maybe get half-a-dozen episodes with an alien race being featured throughout a season at most. So, it gave the writers plenty of opportunity to flesh Bajorans out, but it soon became clear that shortly after the Circle Trilogy ended, they'd run out of ideas of what to do with them. They'd done the religion-political thing they wanted to do, the terrorist thing they wanted to do, and the xenophobia thing they wanted to do, but where do they go from there? What else was there to Bajorans? No one seemed to know.
Episodes featuring them suffered for a long while as a result, especially since the writers seemed to be having more fun writing about the Cardassians or Dominion by then. Well, one theory anyway for why interest in Bajorans drastically tapered off.
Episodes featuring them suffered for a long while as a result, especially since the writers seemed to be having more fun writing about the Cardassians or Dominion by then. Well, one theory anyway for why interest in Bajorans drastically tapered off.
^
As did I, but that's becuase in part, honestly, the Cardassians were a far more interesting species. I think Skyonee is right, DS9 didn't really seem to have a lot to say about the Bajorans on their own and when it did it wasn't always very good (there are one or two stellar episodes like "In the Hands of the Prophets", granted) while a story just about the Cardassians could and did carry several episodes. You can have great episodes about the occupation like "Duet", or just great episodes about a Cardassian or Cardassians like "The Wire."
Now I can understand someone liking DS9 and not caring for the Bajorans and the Prophets but just liking the war, but not liking the Cardassians? That doesn't compute for me. I mean, just taking the war here, their role in that story was integral, and they were chief in the roster of DS9's villains. Dukat is a key and brilliantly compelling villain for the first phase of the war.
And I mean, come on, Garak. How can you be any sort of DS9 fan and not like Garak? It's hard to understand.
As did I, but that's becuase in part, honestly, the Cardassians were a far more interesting species. I think Skyonee is right, DS9 didn't really seem to have a lot to say about the Bajorans on their own and when it did it wasn't always very good (there are one or two stellar episodes like "In the Hands of the Prophets", granted) while a story just about the Cardassians could and did carry several episodes. You can have great episodes about the occupation like "Duet", or just great episodes about a Cardassian or Cardassians like "The Wire."
Now I can understand someone liking DS9 and not caring for the Bajorans and the Prophets but just liking the war, but not liking the Cardassians? That doesn't compute for me. I mean, just taking the war here, their role in that story was integral, and they were chief in the roster of DS9's villains. Dukat is a key and brilliantly compelling villain for the first phase of the war.
And I mean, come on, Garak. How can you be any sort of DS9 fan and not like Garak? It's hard to understand.
I am puzzled when people say that don't like Bajorans, or Cardassians, or the stories about the Occupation; and I liked the Prophets/Emissary storyline until the Pah-wraiths were introduced. But in season 6 and 7 the Prophets/Pah-wraiths thing was utter simplistic good vs evil rubbish, unworthy of the show that used to be about intelligent and complex portrayal of politics and religion. I've ranted a lot of times about everything that was wrong about this plot, so I maybe I should just link to it... ah, here it is, in this post I linked I listed all or most of the problems with the Space Jesus/red eye Dukat/eeeevil Pah-wraiths story.
I'm glad its not just me who feels this way.
I mean, don't get me wrong, the war was awesome, space battles can be fantastic. But the main reason I liked the war was because of the way it impacted our characters. We wouldn't have gotten fantastic episodes like In The Pale Moonlight, or Its Only A Paper Moon, if it wasn't for the war.
But I liked the pacing, especially when they put a funny or at least, a less serious, episode straight after a couple of dramatic, heavy war episodes.
And I'm always a bit... puzzled, when people say they didn't like the Bajorans, the Cardassians, or the Prophets/Pah-Wraiths/Emissary. Those three elements were pretty much integral to the show! The exploration of both the Bajorans and the Cardassians - both as a whole culture, and the various individuals we meet - is one of the best parts of DS9! And I personally enjoyed Sisko's journey to become The Emissary (in attitude/beliefs, not just in name), and found the Prophets and Pah-Wraiths intriguing and interesting as well.
http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3363038&postcount=109
And the Mirror Universe was good in TOS "Mirror, Mirror", but DS9 made it into an unbearable mess. If only they had the senses to stop after "Crossover", where it was still interesting (although I had problems with it even back then), but they had to turn into nonsense that was just an excuse to have the actors dress funny and overact and to include some girl-on-girl action for the horny straight male demographics. (And don't get me started on the whole 'evil bisexual/homosexual people' meme, here even worse because their good counterparts were heterosexual. The writers obviously didn't really think this one through.)
I tried to read some of the DS9 MU literature ("Saturn's Children") thinking it might be better without the 'let's have some silly/horny action' factor of the TV, but I soon realized it was a waste of time. Completely lazy, unimaginative and shallow. What is the point of the MU if your MU versions of canon characters are the same, only less interesting and more one-dimensional? How likely is it that those people would have exactly the same relationships as their counterparts in the Prime Universe, without any of the historical and political situation that caused those relationships to be like that in the first place? The saddest thing is that, as a concept, MU is not bad, and I've actually seen fanfics that made a better use of it and came up with more compelling and convincing MU versions of canon characters!
Hmmm, while I can understand both your points - about the Pah Wraiths, and about the MU, I never really felt that way about either of them.
Ziyal's death was a clear motivation for Dukat's descent into insanity. And Waltz showed us quite clearly that he really WAS insane - his family (the 7 children, and wife) abandoned him, he lost his position of power in the Dominion, so he (misguidedly) directed all his anger and desire for revenge onto Sisko. Maybe that doesn't make sense to a rational person, but I think it had been previously demonstrated that Dukat was anything but rational after Ziyal's death.
As for the Pah-Wraiths... I agree they were one-dimensional, typical 'good vs evil' - but -shrugs- I didn't really mind. The Prophets were always mysterious god-like beings, and Sisko was portrayed as the Emissary (aka 'Space Jesus') from the very first episode... so the progression throughout the show made some sort of sense to me. And heck, at least it was fairly consistent.
I've always loved the episodes where the actors get to play a different role than usual. Whether its alternate universes like TNG's "Parallels", 'dressing up' as Klingons like DS9's "Apocalypse Now" (apologies if that's the not right episode), or the Mirror Universe - in TOS, DS9 or ENT.
Sure, its one-dimensional and makes no logical sense - but I'm watching a sci-fi show, if I can suspend my disbelief about everything else, then its not much of a stretch. And I completely agree about the whole 'evil bisexual/homosexual people' thing... ugh, that just annoys me. But the actors dressing up and acting evil? That's just fun.
I'll have to agree with this. Bajoran episodes were replaced by Cardassian, Klingon and Dominion episodes. BUT the fact that they were featured so prominently in the first two seasons, was more than enough for me! No other Trek race had that much depth, and before DS9 there had never really been any attempt to explore the culture and society of a world over more than one or two episodes - let alone one or two seasons.
I think the Cardassian culture was a lot more interesting because it was so different from the familiar Federation - which is probably also why the Klingons and even Ferengi culture were explored more than the Bajorans or any other Federation race. Once the Bajorans dealt with their issues post-Occupation (like xenophobia, and rebuilding, and lingering hatred, and the remaining terrorists, etc) there really wasn't much more they could do with them on their own.
I think ultimately the Bajoran culture continued to be explored - through their interactions with the Cardassians. The Occupation itself (and episodes that focused on it, or the aftermath of it) is the ultimate example of Bajoran/Cardassian 'interaction' - so I think its hardly fair to say the great episodes which focused on the Occupation were 'Cardassian episodes'.
Otherwise, I'd completely agree - any DS9 fan who doesn't like Cardassians isn't a true fan in my book! And any fan who doesn't like Garak... Well that just shouldn't be possible.
Mysterious god-like (i.e. super-powerful) beings are not necessarily an epitome of Good... at all. And I don't think the Prophets were, from what we knew about them. So I really don't see why the good vs evil thing. I would have been perfectly OK with it if they had portrayed the Prophets and the Pah-wraiths as simply two warring factions of aliens, who each had their legitimate and reasonable motivations (something that makes more sense than "THEY WANT TO END ALL LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE... BECAUSE THEY ARE EEEEVIL MU HA HA HA"), instead of one of them being evil just to be evil and to make the other side look good.
Nah, from the first episode he was, if anything, Space Moses or Space Muhammad. They retconned him into Space Jesus.and Sisko was portrayed as the Emissary (aka 'Space Jesus') from the very first episode... so the progression throughout the show made some sort of sense to me. And heck, at least it was fairly consistent.
Looking back on Deep Space Nine as a whole, I guess I have mixed feelings about Season 6. It was definitely very good, but after the astonishingly good Season 5 it did feel like a little bit of a let-down. The Occupation Arc was very good, but I'm not so sure about the later stages of the season. There are the obvious classics we can all name and most of the other stuff was enjoyable, but compared to Season 5 it sometimes felt a little insubstantial to me. Although Season 7 was more obviously flawed, I thought it had more truly classic episodes, so I'd rate that one a bit higher.
Overall I'd rate the seasons of Deep Space Nine:
5
3
7
6
4
2
1
Overall I'd rate the seasons of Deep Space Nine:
5
3
7
6
4
2
1
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