Borg - any volunteers?

[Thorius]

I've been watching Voyager lately, and since the Borg feature in a number of episodes, I've been thinking about them. One thing I've wondered - was there ever an episode where any human(s) voluntarily joined the collective?

The Trek writers seem to consider the Borg to be one of the ultimate scary possible fates for a human, but if there's one thing I know about humans, it's that all sorts of people react differently to different possibilities. There has to be at least some humans who would consider it to be a cool opportunity to join the Borg.

I personally don't see cybernetic augmentation as "scary" - I'd love to have a computer memory chip grafted into my nervous system (assuming no side effects like splitting headaches for the rest of my life), to help me never forgot anything again. A math coprocessor to help my math-challenged brain do lots of computation quickly, and a built-in tricorder which allowed my brain to perceive physical data which my natural senses could not.

Otoh, I wouldn't want to completely give up my individuality, but I bet there are at least some humans who would consider joining a collective consciousness and shedding individuality to be a positive change in their lives.

So, in any of the series or movies, was there any example of any volunteers to join the Borg?

 

[F. King Daniel]

The novel "Unworthy" featured a Borg worshipping race deemed (like the Kazon) unworthy of assimilation, but otherwise, no.

 

[BillJ]

Unity features former drones trying to form a new collective.

 

[Thorius]

Unity features former drones trying to form a new collective.

Yeah, I saw that episode, but that's different. That was an interesting concept, however. I have wondered if Trek writers would ever pick up on that episode and run with that - perhaps they were successful, and created a seperate, independent borg collective, which was more humane, didn't forcefully assimilate other species, and managed to resist the "Alpha Borg". (for lack of a better designation to differentiate the two collectives)

I like to think so, anyhow.

 

[Lanny77]

I think the only time we ever see anyone willing want to join the Borg is in the episode "One" with the imaginatively named character One. Then again, he is essentially a forced grown super-Borg so that's to be expected.

In the mirror universe novel Worst Of Both World, mirror Noonien Soong seemed pretty eager to join the Borg

 

[You_Will_Fail]

That wasn't "One", it was "Drone". "One" is about Seven running the ship while everyone is in stasis.

 

[Lanny77]

That wasn't "One", it was "Drone". "One" is about Seven running the ship while everyone is in stasis.

ah okay. It's been years since I watched voyager so a little title mix up is expected

 

[plynch]

If I were single, I'd volunteer.

When we are all online together, we might be as cells in a brain, so we might be part of a new supeorganism already. Just as my neurons don't "know" they are doing consciousness, so we humans wouldn't necessarily "feel" the new, emergent level of consciousness we're being a part of.

 

[Anji]

Join an organization who's sole mission is to eliminate freedom and biodiversity from the universe?

No thanks.

 

[YARN]

If I were single, I'd volunteer.

When we are all online together, we might be as cells in a brain, so we might be part of a new supeorganism already.

Is a single brain cell capable of desiring or not desiring to be part of a brain?

Since when is bare possibility proof of anything?

What grounds do you have for thinking that being a borg is like posting online? You can leave your computer any time you please. You still have a life in the real world. And there are other sites with which you may voluntarily affiliate (there are a lot of collectives on the internet).

Just as my neurons don't "know" they are doing consciousness, so we humans wouldn't necessarily "feel" the new, emergent level of consciousness we're being a part of.

If you play Russian Roulette you won't necessarily die.

What we have on-screen contradicts this notion. Former borg have described, in rich detail, that joining the borg is not like being an oblivious brain cell (doing its own thing unaware of the larger mind it is part of), but is to be a trapped consciousness, to feel oneself, one's identity, and voluntariness, sucked into a core.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

It would be an interesting way to kill yourself. So to speak.

I've always thought the temptation to plug into all that knowledge would be too much for someone.. a kind of madness perhaps would drive certain personalities to desire it.

Here's a question: would you do it for one day if you could be unplugged? Or would the horror of it be too great?

 

[Alienesse]

Here's a question: would you do it for one day if you could be unplugged? Or would the horror of it be too great?

No way! To me, losing individuality is one of the most traumatic things that could happen to someone. It's true that becoming a part of the Borg collective would give you access to tremendous knowledge, but at what price? I've always viewed assimilation as a form of mental and physical rape. They invade your body with cybernetic mechanisms and your mind with their collective consciousness. I don't think any amount of knowledge or power is worth losing who you are.

 

[Timo]

Join an organization who's sole mission is to eliminate freedom and biodiversity from the universe? No thanks.

But they're having an awful lot of fun working towards that goal. And from the looks of it, they are going to continue having that fun for a long, long time.

Besides, you already are a member of mankind.

There certainly are humanoid cultures aspiring towards something like the Borg Collective. It's not only the ex-Borg who do it, but the Bynars as well; and there are many biologically collective species out there, achieving Borg-like existence through extensive telepathy. For all we know, humanoids go Collective as a rule, unless they go noncorporeal - and most Collectives just become introspective and retire from the world, but the rare expansionist exception to that rule is currently enjoying an evolutionary advantage for its predatory traits.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Here's a question: would you do it for one day if you could be unplugged? Or would the horror of it be too great?

No way! To me, losing individuality is one of the most traumatic things that could happen to someone. It's true that becoming a part of the Borg collective would give you access to tremendous knowledge, but at what price? I've always viewed assimilation as a form of mental and physical rape. They invade your body with cybernetic mechanisms and your mind with their collective consciousness. I don't think any amount of knowledge or power is worth losing who you are.

I would like to do it for a day. However I would be afraid that the experience would change me too fundamentally and it would effect my relationships. Some don't seem too worse for it though so I might actually sign up.

 

[plynch]

Why are you so enamored of individuality? I know it's preached in Trek, esp. Voyager. When I meditate, one effect, is to lose the duality (I and other) and remember and sense being one with the everything that is or might be.

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely an individual and quirky human, but why is some other form of consciousness/existence automatically bad, wrong, dismissed out of hand?

GR was ok with the Borg/Sorg idea, but he knew it had to be "ooh, scaahry" for the tv audience. He speaks of it in his last interviews book by Fern.

 

[UncleRogi]

I've been watching Voyager lately, and since the Borg feature in a number of episodes, I've been thinking about them. One thing I've wondered - was there ever an episode where any human(s) voluntarily joined the collective?

The Trek writers seem to consider the Borg to be one of the ultimate scary possible fates for a human, but if there's one thing I know about humans, it's that all sorts of people react differently to different possibilities. There has to be at least some humans who would consider it to be a cool opportunity to join the Borg.

I personally don't see cybernetic augmentation as "scary" - I'd love to have a computer memory chip grafted into my nervous system (assuming no side effects like splitting headaches for the rest of my life), to help me never forgot anything again. A math coprocessor to help my math-challenged brain do lots of computation quickly, and a built-in tricorder which allowed my brain to perceive physical data which my natural senses could not.

Otoh, I wouldn't want to completely give up my individuality, but I bet there are at least some humans who would consider joining a collective consciousness and shedding individuality to be a positive change in their lives.

So, in any of the series or movies, was there any example of any volunteers to join the Borg?

BLASPEMY!! HERESY!!
(Drums in the background)
YOU are herewith stripped of Trekness!! FOREVER!!
Please turn in your insignia at the door.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Why are you so enamored of individuality?

Because it is an absolute right that all people should be able to enjoy if they wish.

why is some other form of consciousness/existence automatically bad, wrong, dismissed out of hand?

When it's forcibly imposed, that's why.

 

[UncleRogi]

Something to think about:

What would those born to the Borg think about individuality?

Was Hugh born or assimilated? Do we know? Would this be a valid comparison?

Do the Borg have sex? That would be the deal breaker for me.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

They never said whether Hugh was a native-born Borg or an assimilated human, but I'd guess the former. When he was disconnected from the collective, he appeared to be completely lost and confused. If he had been assimilated, he would have reverted to his former personality (as we've seen, this happens rather quickly. Remember "Survival Instinct"?). But as we saw, he HAD no former personality to revert to. And we also saw that Hugh had no concept of individuality - he literally couldn't even verbalize it.

 

[UncleRogi]

^^^
This was my thinking.

Also, "Drone" is my fav VOY episode. The confrontation with the Collective was AWESOME!!

I wonder if any of that "resistance" was assimilated...