Bleach - Anime Disscussion (Spoilers)

[Technobuilder]

^Agreed, Battle of the week stuff gets old fast

Of course, even with long arcs, you get something similar in how you keep running into more powerful bad guys you have to overcome.

 

[Technobuilder]

^Agreed, Battle of the week stuff gets old fast

Of course, even with long arcs, you get something similar in how you keep running into more powerful bad guys you have to overcome.

 

[zakkrusz]

Yeah, from that line of reasoning is where I developed my rule of never starting anything that has over 100 episodes. The longer they go on the more the quality goes downhill. Unfortunately it's hard to tell sometimes which series will go on forever like that when they're just starting up which is how I got into Bleach, D.Gray-man and Naruto. I'm a bit of a completest though, so I can't stand leaving things unfinished if they've succeeded in hooking me.

 

[Technobuilder]

You know, I hadn't thought about it until just now, but Bleach tends to mask it's characters abilities in some-might-say-clever ways, so that it's not that they just became more powerful, it's that they were already however powerful and you [the viewer] just hadn't realized it yet.

As a Vizard/Visored, I'd say Ichigo has just about reached the point where he can't get another MASSIVE upgrade without it becoming a farce.

HOWEVER

There's no reason he can't become more powerful through actual training in which he masters fine-control of his reiatsu or better yet, learns some freaking KIDO.

He's powerful in Bankai form, but if he trained in his Shikai form first, when he transformed, he'd be even stronger, from what I understand.

Of course, there's also the idea that Ichigo derives his power from or augments it through his emotional imperative to protect others to which is itself a direct result of him not being able to protect his mother.

 

[Meredith]

You know, I hadn't thought about it until just now, but Bleach tends to mask it's characters abilities in some-might-say-clever ways, so that it's not that they just became more powerful, it's that they were already however powerful and you [the viewer] just hadn't realized it yet.

As a Vizard/Visored, I'd say Ichigo has just about reached the point where he can't get another MASSIVE upgrade without it becoming a farce.

HOWEVER

There's no reason he can't become more powerful through actual training in which he masters fine-control of his reiatsu or better yet, learns some freaking KIDO.

He's powerful in Bankai form, but if he trained in his Shikai form first, when he transformed, he'd be even stronger, from what I understand.

Of course, there's also the idea that Ichigo derives his power from or augments it through his emotional imperative to protect others to which is itself a direct result of him not being able to protect his mother.

What really powers Ichigo is the "Number One" song, when that plays he is almost invincible!

Well except when he fights aizen... :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVLYNus_vHc

Ooooops!


I have a feeling if Ichigo decided to try Kido he would end up like Renji and end up blowing himself up.

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

Thank you for the youtube links – that brought back memories!


I needed a bit of a laugh this morning and, yes, I think that was one of the most powerful Aizen moments.

This is one aspect what I like about Bleach battles: There is a lot of room for surprises and there is definitely more to come after the filler. Kubo will open some discussions that are still ongoing like what are the limits of power? When is being powerful too powerful? How do you beat someone who is much more powerful than you are?

One reason why Ishida is my favourite character in Bleach is because he is usually not one of the most powerful characters but nevertheless, he even beat or at least survived against much stronger opponents even when he has no powers or very little powers left.

Some of the people Aizen has surrounded himself with are incredibly powerful. Bleach is not only about how to deal with that but also the personal consequences and sacrifices involved in such fights.

I like the beginnings of Bleach a lot but nowadays also the characters are so much more complex and interesting, it adds so much to my enjoyment of the series. It is mainly about the people, their powers are just part of them.

I think it is time to end a series when the author is running out of ideas. That is not the case with Bleach. Kubo is far from finished telling this story and I am not even thinking about fillers.

 

[3D Master]

As for YouTube, then there is this: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Tousen's bankai: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXRqg3XpLFY

Zaraki is so ffing uber. Brings a smile to your face; hearing Tousen monologue on about how Zaraki is now this and that, and he's just completely wrong.

Beating a bankai with an unreleased sword (okay, his zanpakuto is released, but since Zaraki doesn't know its name and never uses the swords power just his own, it's the same thing) is just insane.

 

[Meredith]

As for YouTube, then there is this: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Tousen's bankai: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXRqg3XpLFY

Zaraki is so ffing uber. Brings a smile to your face; hearing Tousen monologue on about how Zaraki is now this and that, and he's just completely wrong.

Beating a bankai with an unreleased sword (okay, his zanpakuto is released, but since Zaraki doesn't know its name and never uses the swords power just his own, it's the same thing) is just insane.

Zaraki is a heck of a lot smarter than people give him credit for. He has the same kind of "insane genius" that my crazy uncle has. He figured out that if he used himself as a meat shield he could get a hold of Tousen while another person would simply scream and whine about being helpless to Tousen. Zaraki also has awesome amounts of Spirit Pressure. The only reason Ichigo won against him was because he and his Zanpakto fought together to win.

His fight against Niortoia was great as he realized he needed a better technique as he couldn't rely on his sheer power alone. Teaching Kenpatchi Kendo was one of the few smart things Captain Grandpa did.

I love Ishida as well, and he has to be one of the cleverest fighters as well, as he can use limited resources to their max potential. If he hadn't planned ahead on using the San Rei glove he would have been another test subject for Mayuri. Even in the bount arc he showed excellent strategy even though he was "used" by the bounts. That is the only thing I can't forgive him of.

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

It is getting very late and I will have to come back to the latest postings tomorrow. But before I leave I want to copy my review of the new episode here:


Episode 241:



Like everybody else I was wondering about Byakuya`s motives. I approached this episode determined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I am sure also Tosen doesn`t see himself as a traitor. He is convinced that his view of justice and honour is the right one and whoever disagrees with that is the enemy.

Of course Byakuya is not on Tosen`s level but nevertheless, Byakuya`s sense of justice and honour is certainly not identical with mine. It became more and more obvious that Byakuya is indeed supporting Muramasa of his own free will and not because he is being manipulated.

If he intends to find a way to end this conflict and stop the bloodshed, I would even welcome that but if he starts using the methods of a terrorist he will become a traitor no matter what justice and honour excuses he thinks of – and unfortunately this is what happened now.

What annoyed me when watching this episode is the casual attitude towards the Zanpakutou spirits: One of them apparently died during Mayuri`s experiments. All people are worried about is the conclusion that if anyone other than a Zanpakutou`s master defeats and destroys it, it`s highly likely that the sword will never return to normal. They have good reason to be worried but the death itself doesn`t seem to matter to any of them. There has been a similar attitude towards mod souls, the Bount and the Quincies. It seems this attitude towards Zanpakutou spirits really shouldn`t surprise me but it is very disappointing. (Yes, I am aware of it that this is a filler and that the Zanpakutou spirits that apparently died will be back somehow. That doesn`t change the attitudes I am talking about).

Byakuya is starting to make as little sense as Tosen: His sense of honour and justice or what he calls “pride” is full of contradictions. He takes sides with the Zanpakutou but ruthlessly kills Sode no Shirayuki, his sister`s Zanpakutou spirit. If one of his motives was to protect Rukia by trying to force her to stay out of the fight, he should know better: This won`t stop her. I am sure she won`t just take it that Sode no Shirayuki is dead and the way Senbonzakura threw her broken sword at her feet. Rukia will be determined to do her part and although she lost her Zanpakutou she still has her Kido skills and her training as a warrior. Power is not everything. I can imagine that her determination to end this has never been stronger.

It seems Senbonzakura was about to kill Rukia when Renji stopped him. This made me wonder even more what “pride” Byakuya is talking about. The battle between Byakuya and Renji was impressive. Renji knows very well that Byakuya is much more powerful than him but he did what he could. I like it that Renji is using his kido skills too and that he is not very good at it doesn`t stop him from trying. That Snakey and Chimpette helped Renji also by fighting Senbonzakura – it was exciting to watch!

The conflict against the Zanpakutou rebellion is indeed not going well for the Shinigami: Yamamoto, Byakuya, Rukia and Hitsugaya are already unable, seriously handicapped or unwilling to fight against the Zanpakutou spirits. Now also Renji has been hurt. It is about time Ishida, Chad and Orihime show up!

Now Byakuya and a group of Zanpakutou spirits are surrounded. I am curious what will happen next. I am especially looking forward to what might happen between Yumichika and his Zanpakutou spirit.

 

[Meredith]

Byakuya is actign wierd, but maybe this is what happens when a Shimigami loses his fight with his zanpakto?????

I think Byakuya is now Zenbonzakura's "zanpakto" right now.....

Oh and I am really starting to love Chimpette and Snakey, LOL

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

As for YouTube, then there is this: Zaraki Kenpachi vs Tousen's bankai: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXRqg3XpLFY

Zaraki is so ffing uber. Brings a smile to your face; hearing Tousen monologue on about how Zaraki is now this and that, and he's just completely wrong.

Beating a bankai with an unreleased sword (okay, his zanpakuto is released, but since Zaraki doesn't know its name and never uses the swords power just his own, it's the same thing) is just insane.

Zaraki is a heck of a lot smarter than people give him credit for. He has the same kind of "insane genius" that my crazy uncle has. He figured out that if he used himself as a meat shield he could get a hold of Tousen while another person would simply scream and whine about being helpless to Tousen. Zaraki also has awesome amounts of Spirit Pressure. The only reason Ichigo won against him was because he and his Zanpakto fought together to win.

His fight against Niortoia was great as he realized he needed a better technique as he couldn't rely on his sheer power alone. Teaching Kenpatchi Kendo was one of the few smart things Captain Grandpa did.

I love Ishida as well, and he has to be one of the cleverest fighters as well, as he can use limited resources to their max potential. If he hadn't planned ahead on using the San Rei glove he would have been another test subject for Mayuri. Even in the bount arc he showed excellent strategy even though he was "used" by the bounts. That is the only thing I can't forgive him of.

I agree, Kenpachi is the ultimate hack and slash type fighter but he is smart as well. I wouldn`t say that Ichigo won against Kenpachi. I think it was a draw. But even this showed how powerful both of them were at that time. They were pretty much evenly matched. Both have an incredible amount of raw power. Kenpachi had the advantage that he had much more experience than Ichigo who just got his powers and was still learning how to use them. But Ichigo had, as you said, the advantage that he could fight with Zangetsu, that he always had a good relationship with his Zanpakutou spirit.

We could see that Ichigo was right at that time: Kenpachi is still stuck at the level he was when he fought Ichigo in early Bleach but Ichigo has continued to develop and still is. If Kenpachi would fight Ichigo today he wouldn`t fight a beginner. He would also fight an opponent who has the potential to defeat Kenpachi without his eye patch, I am sure of it!

Ishida is of course a very different kind of fighter. He is first of all a thinker and not a basher like Ichigo and definitely Kenpachi.

I agree with everything you said and I understand why you feel that you can`t forgive him because he helped the Bounts. I think this was a very difficult decision Ishida had to make but I think he chose the better of two evils. His own personal history as a Quincy played a big part as well and I don`t blame him for that.

The Bount were unable to leave the world of the living, they were feeding on innocent human beings consuming their souls and the harm they caused was growing. But the world of the Shinigami was safe from them although it was them who created the Bount in the first place and who tried to exterminate them a long time ago. The Shinigami were also responsible for the holocaust against the Quincies and as Ishida had just learned Mayuri continued the slaughter in secret much later, leaving Ishida as the last known survivor of his kind. Ishida probably thought that if he uses his powers to allow the Bount to enter the world of the Shinigami it will protect the real world from further harm from them and force the Shinigami to take responsibility. It is them who should clean up this mess anyway. And because the Shinigami are more powerful than a normal human being they have a much better chance to fight them.

As people explained to Ishida after the door was open and it was too late to stop the Bount anyway, maybe he indeed overlooked the fact that the world of the Shinigami is made of reishi and the Bount would become much more powerful: Bount and Quincies use reishi for their powers.

 

[zakkrusz]

241

I find Byakuya's actions completely incomprehensible at this point. Poor Sode no Shiroyuki had to pay the price for this "pride" of his. Then there's the matter of (most of) the zampakuto approving of him killing her as a loyalty test, which really makes them no better than some of the soul reapers they claim to detest and are rebelling against.

I wonder if we're going to see a split in their ranks because of this. I know it didn't sit well with Tobiume in particular.

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

Bleach 242



Not a lot happened this time but nevertheless, I enjoyed the episode. It started with Soi Fon`s people stating that Byakuya and the Zanpakutou spirits with him are under arrest. Oh, really? I thought. And as I predicted, soon afterwards her people where knocked around like bowling pins again. It is becoming a bit of a tiresome joke. These are supposed to be elite fighters but especially in this episode I wouldn`t have guessed that.

We have seen Ikkaku vs. Houzukimaru before. Also Kira vs. Kazeshini didn`t offer any surprises. But they were good fights.

The meeting of Yumichika and his Zanpaktuo spirit, Ruri-iro Kujaku, was not only interesting but a lot of fun, too. They really are a lot alike!

I also learned something new: Negative emotions like stress also affects the Zanpakutou spirit of the wielder. That this was a problem between Yumichika and his spirit is not surprising but I didn`t expect that Hisagi`s spirit, Kazeshini was affected, too.

It was amusing that Soi Fon didn`t recognize Gonryoumaru and had no idea whose Zanpakutou spirit he is. I must admit, I wouldn`t have known this either also because Sasakibe Choujirou is the vice-captain I know the least about. I am not even sure what powers he actually has.

Next week should be interesting. I am looking forward to learn more about Isane but most of all to Mayuri`s Zanpakutou spirit, Ashisohi Jizo. That cross of a baby with a butterfly is really creepy!

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

Bleach 243



I love the new start and ending pieces! I like both tunes a lot but my favourite is the opening one.

It seems this filler story will continue for quite some time. Maybe it will indeed be as long as the Bount story. The two new pieces show some great teasers so that I am looking forward to what will happen next. And if it is indeed true that Ishida, Orihime and Chad will finally turn up and also get something interesting to do that contributes to the story, even better! I already like this story very much but especially in that case I definitely don`t mind.

Byakuya is not very likeable to me but he is interesting. I am looking forward to some good character stories combined with the already impressive fights. From looking at the teasers in the new start and ending pieces I gather that the relationship between Yumichika and Ikkaku will also be explored and this is something I am very much looking forward to!


This time we got another episode with multiple battles and again with a good mix of battles with Zanpakutou spirits that are well known by now, some who we haven`t met very often and a few new faces. It was an interesting mix.

I loved Soi Fon`s fight. I am not a fan of her character but I have to respect her fighting abilities. Gonryomaru and Tenken were powerful opponents but she fought very well. The way she dealt with Gonryomaru`s lightning bolts and stopped Tenken`s blade with her bare hands – it was impressive! I wish I could see a woman fight so well more often in Bleach.

My daughter was delighted: She really likes “Tinkerbell” Suzumebachi. She also made me laugh but I never forgot how dangerous Soi Fon`s little Zanpakutou spirit is. And Soi Fon`s face was funny, too.

Also Kira did well. This was an excellent Kido fight he had against Kazeshini. They are usually much more interesting than the sword fights. I am not sure what to make of Wabisuke.

Ashisogi Jizou made me jump when he suddenly appeared in front of Isane and popped his blades out and he also used the gas – that brought back memories from early Bleach. I hope Mayuri has enough antidote for everybody. The casualty numbers are increasing rapidly. I think Matsumoto and Iba have been poisoned as well.

After Ikkaku also Yumichika seems to be unable to fight after having been drained of a dangerous amount of reiatsu by his Zanpakutou spirit. I am not sure if it was by accident or design but nevertheless, the way their faces turned ugly during the fight was interesting and disturbing to watch. I noticed the irony because both of them are obsessed with beauty and the uglier the fight became, it was reflected on their faces.

And at the end Kenpachi arrives with his crazy laugh. Well, his fellow Shinigami certainly could use some help and I must admit, I kind of missed him. I am looking forward to next week.

 

[zakkrusz]

243

Alright! Crazy Kenny is back.

It's not looking too good for the Reapers at the moment as many of them are hurt or outnumbered. Hopefully Uketake and Kyoraku will get in on the action too shortly. I also have a burning curiousity to see what Captain Unahana can do and why everyone is so frightened of her. I'd laugh if the 4th captain was one of the most powerful. I know she's quite old, despite not looking it, and one of the senior captains.

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

Hm, yes, I wonder who Kenpachi will fight. Kenpachi vs. Kazeshini would be interesting because both of them are quite crazy.

Last episode showed that Ukitake`s lung disease got worse again and it seems he won`t be able to fight either. Yes, I also would like to see what captain Unohana can do. I could see that she is a good leader and an extremely skilled healer. Kubo has announced that we will see her fight but that hasn`t happened yet.

I know that Yamamoto will be back eventually and therefore I am just enjoying the time when the three elders (Ukitake and Kyoraku are also older than most) took over the leadership of the Soul Society.

 

[zakkrusz]

That weak constitution of Ukitake's is pretty odd and convenient. I wonder if Aizen is responsible for that too. I can't say I'd be surprised if it turned out he was.

If Unahana does get into some action, it will most likely be when the series returns to the original storyline where she is trapped in Hueco Mundo. I wouldn't think Kubo would want to spoil the upcoming battles by revealing what certain character's zampakuto can do (outsude of what we've been shown already) in this filler.

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

Yes, I noticed that fillers don`t reveal anything new about the main characters but sometimes there can be interesting twists.




Bleach 244



It is good to have Kenpachi around again. I kind of missed the crazy guy and after all the recent casualties his help is badly needed. That he defeated Wabisuke so easily is really no surprise. Being chained to a heavy piece of concrete wall on his back and a huge ball and chain on his shoulder, how is this Zanpakutou spirit supposed to fight anyone if a surprise attack fails?

I have missed Yachiru too. The way she told their story was so typical, it made me laugh! Going hollow hunting and getting lost on the way back, that makes sense. And then he was looking for the strongest opponent. All that brought back memories of the Soul Society chapter.

I have seen this before but still, the full release of Kenpachi`s power also impressed me this time. I am not surprised that Kenpachi chose Byakuya to battle with. So far Kenpachi seems to have the upper hand but although he has more raw power at his disposal I think there is a chance that Byakuya can defeat him or as it was the case when Kenpachi fought Ichigo, there could be a draw. It seems we will find out next week.

Yumichika fought a very different battle. He has a very high rank in the 11th squad for someone who only uses a small fraction of his shikai and hides all his abilities that are related to kido. Maybe it is not surprising that his Zanpaktuo spirit, Ruri-iro Kujaku, underestimated him so badly. I could see again how powerful Yumichika usually is and how much more powerful he could be. Yumichika is used to it to defeat strong opponents using very little. That he outsmarted his opponent and won in his weakened state didn`t surprise me. Nevertheless, it was interesting to watch.

Now that also Orihime appears in the start up and there is another broken sword, I was reminded of the soccer ball filler in which Orihime mended the ball with her powers. She should be able to mend Wabisuke and also Sode no Shirayuki. Maybe she could even “heal” Gegetsuburi but I am not sure about that.

 

[zakkrusz]

245 had lots of hilarious shenanigans, such as Yachiru playing with/tormenting Ashisogi Jizo, Soi Fon's reaction to being picked up by Yoriuchi, and Mayuri and Nemo's attempted murder....uh...I mean....treatment.

 

[Baerbel Haddrell]

Yes, for a moment I was torn if I should laugh or feel sorry for Shisogi Jizo but Yachiru playing with him was just SO funny!



OK, here is my review:





This was an interesting and fun episode with quite a few character moments that got my attention. It started with it that in spite of what Byakuya has done Rukia obviously still very much cares about her brother and was worried about him. I found this very touching. I have trouble to forgive him for the apparent fate of Sode no Shirayuki but mainly for Rukia`s sake I hope that his apparent treachery is not what it seems to be.

Ashisogi Jizou is a dangerous monster but nevertheless, there were times when I felt sorry for that creature. He seems to have the maturity of a toddler. Nemu has at least the mind of an adult but using a creature that looks and behaves like a modified baby like this is typical Mayuri and another example of his evil. The way he snapped his Zanpakutou - again – was what I expected to happen, also that it was shown again that Mayuri can pretty much do what he wants.

Poor Ichigo! When Nemu did the same stunt with Ishida in the past I had very mixed feelings about it. This time I just laughed although I have never forgotten the serious background. Ichigo`s struggle and Mayuri`s and Kenpachi`s colourful descriptions, they were just SO funny!

It seems when Mayuri restores his Zanpakutou it will be even more dangerous. I am sure, finding a cure for an even more deadly poison will be a challenge for Unohana but again, she smiles and accepts it but nobody is challenging Mayuri because of this.

Soi Fon`s fight against her little Zanpakutou spirit was all right but not one of the more interesting parts of this episode. But that changed with the appearance of Yoruichi. That was a great moment and it is good to see her again!

It makes me suspicious that Yoruichi has found Yamamoto. This could very well be a trap. Anyway, I am looking forward to the next episode!