Spoilers Black Panther grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
Planning is different than doing. I'm just wondering how Killmonger was able to achieve T'Challa's level of proficiency while getting his degree from M.I.T., his career as a Navy SEAL and a CIA assasin. Michael B. Jordan would have been around 30 during filming, so let's assume Killmonger is somewhere between 30-35.
It unlikely that he was able to find any instruction in swordsmanship during his time in Oakland. He graduates M.I.T. at age 19, so it's conceivable that he finds someone in Boston to begin his martial arts studies. He then goes to Annapolis then after graduation, joins the Navy SEALs. Let's say that in Maryland, he also is able to study swordsmanship, though that would probably during his sophmore through senior year. I think freshmen are kept on a pretty short leash.
The academy is 4 years, no if's, and's or but's. That puts his age at 23/24 by the time he goes to BUD/S. Between BUD/S, SQT, jumpschool, SERE school and everything else a Navy SEAL goes through, he doesn't actually become a SEAL until he's age 25/26 minimum. He then racks up more kills in Iraq and Afghanistan than any other operator. We don't know how long he was a SEAL, but it's unlikely that he'd be able to do any sword training while on deployment. We can assume he does some training while back in the States, but even when SEALs aren't deployed, they're training 8-12 hours a day doing urban combat training, CQC, room clearing and all the other things Spec Ops guys are doing. Needless to say he's only going to be able to train with swords for a few hours a week.
Finally he goes to the CIA. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that he's about 30 to 32 by this time. Let's say that his work in the CIA allows him to actually get real instruction on sword/spear/shield combat during "downtime" while on assignment.
So, for Killmonger, were looking at 3-5 good years of swordsmanship training with maybe another 3-5 years (cumulatively) broken up by his academic endeavors and time as a SEAL. This versus T'Challa, who's spent his entire life practicing the art with experts at his disposal every day.
I realize I'm trying to assign reality to a movie that depicts a fictional society built around a magical metal.
Definitely a fair assessment all around. Plus, it sounds like you also at least served in the Navy, which adds creedence to that assessment.
No.
Thank you... I was in the Navy though I was in the aviation side; Pretty far removed from the SEAL/SWCC community. I had four friends/pals that tried out for it during my time in. One actually made it through BUD/S. The other three were dropped either due to illness, injury or ringing the bell.
Stood out to me because I also served in the Navy, but far from SEALs as well (I was a mass communications specialist on a flagship and at NATO). I don't know much about SEALs beyond the basics, so I enjoyed reading your insights.
I was busy.
What does God need with an Infinity Gauntlet?
Not to mention he is clearly not some weird socially-isolated/deficient monk. Things may come easy to a borderline superhuman genius Wakandan prince, but having anything approaching a social life is gonna eat into the time for those swordplay sessions.
So, let me get this straight. The villain in Black Panther 2 is going to be... The Prowler?
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/blac...o-play-the-villain-in-black-panther-2-a160826
Actually, I don't really have a problem with Donald Glover playing two different roles in the MCU, but if they make him a major element of a Black Panther movie, then they should never make him a major element of a Miles Morales movie.
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/blac...o-play-the-villain-in-black-panther-2-a160826
Actually, I don't really have a problem with Donald Glover playing two different roles in the MCU, but if they make him a major element of a Black Panther movie, then they should never make him a major element of a Miles Morales movie.
Not "going to be" but rumored to might be, taken with a huge helping of salt.
I don’t like the way Killmonger just gives up and dies at the end.
Plan A has failed. He’s not going to be King of Wakanda. But there are still plans B, C, D, and E to try. Try to convince T’Challa that you’re right. If that doesn’t work, take your case to the people and hope to convince them to lobby their king to support the cause. If that doesn’t work, maybe you can start a movement that will influence T’Challa’s eventual successor.
Those plans may be long shots, or may take a very long time to come to fruition. I understand Killmonger betting everything on Plan A as long as it remains a viable option. But once it has failed, the other plans are still worth trying. Billions of his brothers and sisters are depending on him.
But instead, this man on a mission decides to give up on them, spend a few minutes talking about sunsets and burials, then end it all by pulling the blade out? Why do that when it’s possible to live and continue fighting for his cause?
Plan A has failed. He’s not going to be King of Wakanda. But there are still plans B, C, D, and E to try. Try to convince T’Challa that you’re right. If that doesn’t work, take your case to the people and hope to convince them to lobby their king to support the cause. If that doesn’t work, maybe you can start a movement that will influence T’Challa’s eventual successor.
Those plans may be long shots, or may take a very long time to come to fruition. I understand Killmonger betting everything on Plan A as long as it remains a viable option. But once it has failed, the other plans are still worth trying. Billions of his brothers and sisters are depending on him.
But instead, this man on a mission decides to give up on them, spend a few minutes talking about sunsets and burials, then end it all by pulling the blade out? Why do that when it’s possible to live and continue fighting for his cause?
All very good points. It kind of goes against his character of this smart, fearless warrior. Furthermore having just watched Creed again over the weekend, it would have been great to have Jordan back for BP3 (whenever it gets made).
It’s also out of character for T’Challa to accept Killmonger’s suicide. This is the guy who stopped Zemo’s suicide attempt. But when his own first cousin, in a highly emotional state after suffering a devastating defeat, decides to die, T’Challa allows it? The world of the living is not done with you, N’Jadaka.
Zemo was an international criminal who had to answer for his crimes. T'Challa's relationship with N'Jadaka was... complicated to say the least. He was a rival to the throne, which is a rather different ettiquette, and that's without even considering the fact that T'Chaka literally created N'Jadaka. Besides, he didn't commit suicide, anyway. He just refused medical treatment, which is generally considered a right people have - and we don't even know if treatment would've been good enough to save him to begin with.
The challenge for the throne requires that one person either die or yield. Killmonger wasn't going to yield.
The ritual challenge for the throne also requires that the combatants not use the power of the heart-shaped herb, so whatever they were doing, it wasn’t ritual combat.
He was in a highly emotional state and, as I argued earlier, it seems a completely irrational choice given his priorities. I’m not sure his wishes have to be respected in that situation. Even if they do, T’Challa could have done a better job of talking sense in to him.
He said he thought T’Challa was going to lock him up for life, despite his having been careful to do things in accordance with Wakandan law. T’Challa could at least have reassured him that he wasn’t going to do that. As long as he’ll accept T’Challa as king — which is something he does anyway if he dies — there’s no reason he can’t live as a free citizen of Wakanda. (Or America, if he prefers. But staying in Wakanda probably gives him a better chance to help his cause.)
I thought the same thing. It would have been a great ending to actually have the two sides realize they can come to a resolution. T'Challa has already been influenced by Killmonger's argument so why does he have to die?