Spoilers Black Panther grade and discussion thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by The Nth Doctor, Feb 15, 2018.

?

How do you rate "Black Panther"?

  1. A+

    19.1%
  2. A

    40.9%
  3. A-

    15.5%
  4. B+

    10.9%
  5. B

    4.5%
  6. B-

    3.6%
  7. C+

    1.8%
  8. C

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. C-

    0.9%
  10. D+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. D

    0.9%
  12. D-

    0.9%
  13. F

    0.9%
  1. grendelsbayne

    grendelsbayne Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2013
    Location:
    Netherlands
    I think it could work for them generally speaking, but there does come a point when the MCU has gone to this well too many times. Cap frozen in the arctic, Bucky and Zola experimented on by Hydra, Star-Lord abducted by aliens, Ant-man's secret cold war career, Captain Marvel off somewhere in space. Is it really worth it to add the negative zone to that list?

    But if so, then at least give them something different. Not the 90s. The 60s are a good aesthetic for the F4's jetson-esque brand of sci-fi. Or forget the 'they're from the past' shtick and make them the MCU's first parallel universe heroes.
     
  2. theenglish

    theenglish Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2001
    Location:
    Cameroon
    It is not the MCU, those are all plots from the actual comics with the exception of Carol lost in space somewhere.
     
  3. grendelsbayne

    grendelsbayne Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2013
    Location:
    Netherlands
    That really doesn't make any difference though. The MCU is a movie franchise which is primarily judged as a movie franchise. Whether it lines up with the comics or not (sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't) is just a bonus discussion for the tiny fraction of the audience that has actually read the comics.
     
  4. LJones41

    LJones41 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2015
    Location:
    I'm from Long Beach, CA.
    To me, the MCU is no more or less "consistent" than any other movie franchise.


    The movie "Black Panther". It was established in that film that Wakanda was basically an isolationist country. So why was there a mission in Lagos, Nigeria?


    Why would King T'Chaka even mention the destruction of this "mission" openly like he did, considering Wakanda's reputation as an isolationist country?
     
  5. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    Yeah, we already have Capt. Marvel for the '90s, so if we have to have them come from I would go to an era we haven't seen explored yet in the MCU, like the '60s or '70s.
    I know a lot of people seem to want them to be from an earlier era, but I don't see why that would be necessary for them. I think their origin story would work out really well in a post-Infinity War world, maybe everything that's happened with aliens the last few years has inspired a new push on space exploration and that's how they end up in space and get exposed to whatever gives them their powers.
     
  6. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2003
    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    I was definitely a fan of having the Fantastic Four be from an earlier era before it was revealed that Captain Marvel was going to be as well. Doing it once with Captain America was one thing, but even I feel doing it twice now with Captain Marvel is a bit of a stretch. Three times? Nah.

    Now, I want to see Reed as one of the recipients of Tony Stark's September Foundation grant. I want to see him make a name for himself before the space flight or whatever it is that gives the team their powers by inventing the unstable molecule. In MCU terms, the unstable molecule could be a form of synthetic vibranium perhaps.
     
  7. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2003
    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    gblews and The Nth Doctor like this.
  8. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2000
    Location:
    Lost in a temporal and spacial anomaly
    Either way, Shuri for Black Panther! :D
     
    gblews and Nyotarules like this.
  9. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    I would be up for that, and it did happen in the comics for a while, so it's not totally impossible.
     
  10. Captrek

    Captrek Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    Location:
    Captrek
    Shuri at one point calls Ross “colonizer.” Makes me wonder, when European colonial powers controlled basically the entire continent of Africa, how did Wakanda manage to keep the colonizers out without revealing that they had the ability to keep the colonizers out?
     
  11. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2000
    Location:
    Lost in a temporal and spacial anomaly
    ...you saw the cloaking device that surrounds the nation, right?
     
    Nerys Myk likes this.
  12. Captrek

    Captrek Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    Location:
    Captrek
    That only hides it when it’s being viewed from outside. What happened when colonizers tried to enter Wakanda? They didn’t have planes and satellites to be fooled by a camouflage shield; when they wanted to see what was there, they had to send people to go there and look.
     
  13. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Location:
    Germany, Earth, the Solar System
    Wakanda hides behind a fully fledged hologram wall basically projecting an absolute inaccessible area.
    You have to fly through a “mountain” wall to get there.
    However there is an area around the projection where unsuspicious 3rd world farmland is maintained as a pretense.

    That was made quite clear in the movie.
     
    gblews and The Nth Doctor like this.
  14. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    That and waterfalls, loose rock, the entire surronds where shown to be dangerous or high (the illusion of it).

    The sort of environment that would mean most people find a way around.
     
    The Nth Doctor likes this.
  15. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2003
    Location:
    Tacoma, Washington
    What happened when colonizers try to enter Wakanda? Klaue did say that he was the first one to see it and come out alive.
     
  16. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    I'm sure Klaue is just the most honest person ever to...oh, wait.
     
  17. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Location:
    Thulcandra
    I thought that was Shuri having some fun with Ross and also putting him out of his comfort zone.

    I'm going to guess they kept them out same way Ethiopia did, kill them. If you don't protect your borders your country will end up not yours anymore. The Ethiopians were able to defeat the invaders right up to the 30s when the Italians hit them with poison gas and denied it. I really doubt the Wakandans had holographic shields in the 1880s but they did have a well trained Dora Milaje and other armed forces to repel enemies.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
    The Nth Doctor and Turtletrekker like this.
  18. grendelsbayne

    grendelsbayne Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2013
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Yeah, if you look at the comics, it's pretty clear that Wakanda did not always have this awesome space age holo-tech. But they did always have a massive technological advantage over everyone around them, and they used it to wipe out any invaders who came too close to them.
     
  19. Captrek

    Captrek Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    Location:
    Captrek
    The question is, how did they use their massive technological advantage to wipe out invaders without revealing that they had a massive technological advantage?

    Along similar lines, how does the population of a whole country keep a secret? Is travel to and communication with the outside world so strictly limited that there are very few people who are in a position to spill the beans? I don’t care how strong your cultural values are, if there are literally millions of people in a position to blab, somebody will.
     
  20. grendelsbayne

    grendelsbayne Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2013
    Location:
    Netherlands
    If you wipe out all the invaders, there's no one left to reveal anything. Also Wakanda is (in the comics at least) supposed to be physically hard to get to, so fairly few people would try to go there, anyway.

    And there would not have been millions of people in a relatively small country in the distant past. I'd say it's questionable as to whether there are even millions of people in Wakanda in the present, since it seems to be primarily the one city with some outliers, and the city doesn't look THAT big.

    I do think, also, historically speaking Wakanda definitely would have had serious travel limits. If the King doesn't want the world to know they exist, then he doesn't allow just anyone to go anywhere they want. This was probably accepted by the Wakandans in general primarily because Wakanda was better off than everyone around them, anyway. If they had had a serious poverty problem, the whole setup would've buckled as people fled in search of a better life, but they didn't need to search for that, so everything held up.