Biggest insulting slap-in-the-face episode for fans?
- Thread starter I am not Spock
- Start date
to me 'Flashback' was just crap because they used a crappy mind-meld to get around the problem of how to visit the C23 when they're in the DQ, YET they managed to visit the C20 in 'Future's End' in a decent way and went back in time in 'Relativity' as well.
However, These Are the Voyages was at best misguided and at worst poorly thought through. I honestly think that Berman and Braga thought that by creating loop between the series [TNG to Enterprise] it would excite the fans. It simply illustrates how out of touch they had become with the fan base.
Nemesis however [unlike TATV] was riddled with plot holes -- unforgivable ones. The whole premise of the Remens was absurd. And how they they dig deeper and deeper holes as the storyline moves forward.
TATV was most likely Berman and Braga's FU to the fans who persistently maintained that Enterprise was an alternate reality version of Star Trek given all of the continuity gaffs. Linking it in so specifically with TNG, inside an actual episode of the series, they will see as 'pulling all the continuity together'. Yeah, whatever Bermaga..... 
Yeah...I know what you mean about the plot holes. No doubt about it - you could run a starship thru them, they were so huge. Totally agreed. And utterly unforgivable - especially given that this is a feature film we are talking about here, and not some episode they had only a few weeks to prepare.
But for me, B&B's steadfast refusal to listen to the fan base for so many years; but instead choose the course of spewing propaganda left and right like they thought we were too stupid to grasp the difference between the crap on our screens and the glowing praise emanating from their lips; is equally offensive and unforgivable to me.
Granted, they were completely different sorts of offenses. But I think both are quite valid complaints.
Come to think of it, there were times there during the last few years of ENT where I began to wonder about how much of Trek Berman actually WATCHED. Because surely if he had actually watched Nemesis before it went to the theater, he would have noticed the fact that Shinzon has pretty much NO motivation to go after Picard with that level of contempt.
And surely if Berman has watched even 1/4 of the episodes of seasons 4 thru 7 of DS9, he would have never said anything so moronic as "ENT is the first arc based Trek show".
And surely if he watched the utterly disjointed and almost schizophrenic season 2 of ENT, he would never had had the nerve to make himself look like a complete idiot by announcing that 'we are all very pleased!'...propaganda or no.
I mean, some things can be spun with a bit of neatly placed propaganda...but ENT was WAY, WAY past just a simple need for spin control.
I don't know....but for me, TATV (and NEM too, for that matter) epitomizes an attitude more than anything else. An attitude that they persisted in for several years: that Trek fans are just so STUPID that we would swallow all manner of swill...as long as the words 'Star Trek' were slapped onto the credits.
And the fact that they chose to end Trek's TV 'career' with yet another confirmation of this attitude really blows me away. I mean, I guess their disastrous attempt at bringing back the borg wasn't confirmation enough for them that no one wanted ENT be be yet ANOTHER TNG mini-me.
Dax's boobs?PKTrekGirl said:
Name one.And no....Vanessa Williams boobs don't count.
That and Quark telling us that Ferenginar has 12 different names for rain. Come on, that was worth a good laugh at least.
"Code of Honor" was hands down the worse mose racist piece of crap ever, even the actors won't talk about it. Roddenberry was still alive and approved it. If he was still alive, I'd thank him for Trek and then kick him in the balls for "Code of Honor".
However, I don't understand how people can find "Up The Long Ladder", "Spirit Folk" & "Fair Haven" offensive and not characters like Scotty or O'Brian? Scotty was the biggest cut out of a stereotype I've ever seen. Only thing missing was that he wasn't a policeman..........or is that the Irish?
BTW I am Not Spock , rewatch Voy. "Coldfire". Most fans don't notice that "Coldfire" & "Fury" are bookend eps. In "Coldfire" at the end Kes explains to Tuvok what happens to her when her uses her powers, "Fury" is the result. It's basically Treks version of "The Phoenix Saga" from X-Men.
I can't really blame them, honestly.Angel4576 said:
TATV was most likely Berman and Braga's FU to the fans who persistently maintained that Enterprise was an alternate reality version of Star Trek given all of the continuity gaffs. Linking it in so specifically with TNG, inside an actual episode of the series, they will see as 'pulling all the continuity together'. Yeah, whatever Bermaga.....
After all the hate mail and things fan put them and their families thru over a TV show(you know how overly zealous many fans can be.), I can't blame them if they hate us as much as some hate them.
Sometimes the fans need to be told "Fuck You!".
A bit harsh, maybe but I think we fans can be real assholes at times too.
nemesis.
just a total, complete "fuck you" to the fans, and unbeleivably formulaic pandering to a "mainstream" audience that didn't care anyway. i've watched this movie a couple of times, convinced that it couldn't possibly be as bad as i think it is. and every time, it's worse.
& it's not just the lobotomized, brain-dead plot-by-numbers story, riker and troi's (amazingly) offscreen wedding and killing off data in an astonishly cavalier and offhand way...it just felt like a total "fuck you" to me as a fan.
i really think that berman and braga were total god-complexing hacks with a passive-aggressive complex toward the fan community, sending (barely) coded "fuck you"s by killing off characters like kirk, data, and trip in such an unbelievably bad way. NOBODY - even brannon braga - can write something as terrible as "nemesis" without it being at least partly on purpose...
just a total, complete "fuck you" to the fans, and unbeleivably formulaic pandering to a "mainstream" audience that didn't care anyway. i've watched this movie a couple of times, convinced that it couldn't possibly be as bad as i think it is. and every time, it's worse.
& it's not just the lobotomized, brain-dead plot-by-numbers story, riker and troi's (amazingly) offscreen wedding and killing off data in an astonishly cavalier and offhand way...it just felt like a total "fuck you" to me as a fan.
i really think that berman and braga were total god-complexing hacks with a passive-aggressive complex toward the fan community, sending (barely) coded "fuck you"s by killing off characters like kirk, data, and trip in such an unbelievably bad way. NOBODY - even brannon braga - can write something as terrible as "nemesis" without it being at least partly on purpose...
IMO Nemesis would be a perfect example of why somebody who is doing Trek should have at least a passing familiarity with the franchise. I mean when the fucking director doesn't even know that Geordi is a human, you have to know that there is no way he's going to be a able to do a decent Star Trek anything.
Actually it was a bet/dare from Beltran to Braga so Braga did it. If you had the time there is an article about it in the TrekToday archives from 2001.
Actually it was a fairly clever concept. The idea of using TNG characters to reflect on the legacy of the ENT crew via the holodeck that had been shown on the various 24th century series of chronicling historical events. It also would have worked as a nice capping to the 18 year Trek era ushered in with TNG in '87.
The problem was in the execution. Add another hour and redo some of the plot points surrounding Trip's death and Shran/jewel story and it could have worked. But I still can't say it was awful. There were a few isolated moments that were nice and at the end of the day that puts it above stuff like The Fight, Favorite Son, Let He Who is Without Sin, Precious Cargo etc.
And for those criticizing Braga for Nemesis he had nothing to do with it. Berman, Spiner and JOhn Logan were the ones involved with it.
But we did see (in sort) how the Voyager crew adapted to Earth. The doctor was obviously allowed to stay alive and keep his mobile emitter. Kim jumped up the command ranks to become Captain. Janeway was promoted to Admiral, Paris & B'lanna stayed married. Tuvok went mad.
It is then that Janeway changed the future....but we know how things would have turned out.
It is then that Janeway changed the future....but we know how things would have turned out.
Not really.
There is one law that all sci-fi agrees on and that is: The future is not set in stone. Seeing how Voyager got home earlier than the one in the future we saw & Chakotay & Seven didn't die, that alone alters anything we may have seen in that one possable future.
It surely slapped us black fans in the face, didn't it? As much as I dislike Voyager, I give the show a lot of credit for countering that nonsense with Tuvok.
Similar threads
