• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearances?

JoeZhang

Vice Admiral
Admiral
I was reading another thread about TMP and it mentioned Admiral Nogura who is never seen on screen and I think is only mentioned in a few lines - yet he has a fairly healthy career in the books and comics appearing numerous times.

So which character has the least onscreen time or mentions but the most appearances in the spin-off literature?
 
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

Selar is only in one ep of TNG, but she's a major character in New Frontier as well as appearing in many TNG books and comics. The New Frontier also stars Robin Liefler and Shelby, both only in a couple of episodes of TNG.
SCE also features a few characters with very brief appearances on TV.
 
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

How about Vedek Yevir? We only see the back of his head.

(It's a retcon to establish that that guy was Yevir at all, really, so maybe that doesn't count.)

.
 
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

Hard to beat Nogura, a character with zero actual screen time and only three name checks.

Ooh, what about Joanna McCoy? She was only mentioned onscreen once, in "The Survivor," but has appeared in Planet of Judgment and Crisis on Centaurus and in several comics including Marvel's "All the Infinite Ways" in 1981, an issue of Marvel's Untold Voyages, and an issue of IDW's The Enterprise Experiment, as well as in the alternate timeline of A Less Perfect Union, and has been mentioned in several other stories. An alternate McCoy daughter, Barbara, appeared in a couple of Gold Key comics.

I'm not sure whether to count McCoy's ex-wife, since she was never explicitly mentioned onscreen until 2009. Several versions of her have appeared in books over the years -- as Honey in Planet of Judgment, Jocelyn Darnell in Enterprise: The First Adventure and Shadows on the Sun, and Pamela Branch in the Abramsverse comics. I'm not sure whether to count those as a single character.

DS9 had a couple of recurring "characters" who were mentioned but never seen due to their exotic alien anatomy -- Captain Boday, the Gallamite with the transparent skull, and Ensign Vilix'pran, a nonhumanoid of unclear description (but evidently with wings). I don't recall if they've had any "onscreen" appearances in the books.

As far as character who have appeared onscreen, I can't resist name-dropping Agents Lucsly and Dulmur, who had a combined total of only 3 minutes and 45 seconds of screen time, but managed to show up in Section 31: Rogue, two stories in Strange New Worlds II, and Star Trek Online: The Needs of the Many even before I made them the stars of the DTI series. Other significant characters in the DTI books include Grey and Aleek-Om from "Yesteryear," who had three and two lines onscreen respectively.
 
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

Nogura probably is the champeen, with Yevir a close second, though I want to mention Lorgh, who was only mentioned in a single episode ("Sins of the Father") as the person who raised Kurn after Khitomer. He played a large supporting role in The Art of the Impossible and A Burning House and a small supporting role in several novels, among them Warpath and A Time to Kill.
 
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

Hard to beat Nogura, a character with zero actual screen time and only three name checks.

Ooh, what about Joanna McCoy? She was only mentioned onscreen once, in "The Survivor," but has appeared in Planet of Judgment and Crisis on Centaurus and in several comics including Marvel's "All the Infinite Ways" in 1981, an issue of Marvel's Untold Voyages, and an issue of IDW's The Enterprise Experiment, as well as in the alternate timeline of A Less Perfect Union, and has been mentioned in several other stories. An alternate McCoy daughter, Barbara, appeared in a couple of Gold Key comics.

I'm not sure whether to count McCoy's ex-wife, since she was never explicitly mentioned onscreen until 2009. Several versions of her have appeared in books over the years -- as Honey in Planet of Judgment, Jocelyn Darnell in Enterprise: The First Adventure and Shadows on the Sun, and Pamela Branch in the Abramsverse comics. I'm not sure whether to count those as a single character.

DS9 had a couple of recurring "characters" who were mentioned but never seen due to their exotic alien anatomy -- Captain Boday, the Gallamite with the transparent skull, and Ensign Vilix'pran, a nonhumanoid of unclear description (but evidently with wings). I don't recall if they've had any "onscreen" appearances in the books.

As far as character who have appeared onscreen, I can't resist name-dropping Agents Lucsly and Dulmur, who had a combined total of only 3 minutes and 45 seconds of screen time, but managed to show up in Section 31: Rogue, two stories in Strange New Worlds II, and Star Trek Online: The Needs of the Many even before I made them the stars of the DTI series. Other significant characters in the DTI books include Grey and Aleek-Om from "Yesteryear," who had three and two lines onscreen respectively.

I haven't read Enterprise:The First Adventure, but I have listened to the very short abridged audios. I wasn't overly impressed by it so I never got the novel. Is it worth reading? What little I've heard about it didn't sound promising, and the ridiculous detail of retconing Rand to be a teenager puts me off the whole thing.
I have read Planet of Judgement. I think the name Honey may show up elsewhere, but that could just be my imagination inserting the name whenever the ex Mrs McCoy is brought up. I can easily accept Honey as a knickname for Jocelyn and/or Pamela. I have both Shadow on the Sun and the reboot comics in my very big to read list, so I'll eventually get to form an opinion over whether I think Pamela and Jocelyn are the same woman. Given that it's an alternate universe I can accept that McCoy has a totally different ex wife. From their appearances do they have a similar appearance and/or personality? Is there any mention anywhere of the reboot McCoy having a daughter?

I have heard that McCoy has a daughter Barbara in the Gold Key comics. I've heard the theory put out there that McCoy could have two daughters, possibly with different mothers. I haven't read that comic or any books with Joanna yet outside of her brief appearance in Planet of Judgement, I wonder if we could write off the issue as being Joanna using her middle name for awhile? I overall don't accept McCoy having another daughter when I've read too many references to his family life with "Honey"and Joanna. I suppose if Barbara had a different mother it could work. McCoy was already a pretty distant and uninvolved father to Joanna, so it's not unreasonable to imagine him being even less involved with another daughter, especially if she was born from a relationship to a woman he didn't love.
I wish I could retcon Spock's brother out of continuity. He was an ill fitting addition to that family. I can think of lots of novels that explore Spock's childhood, but I can't think of any appearance of the brother outside STV.
Doesn't Kirk have a sister in the Gold Key comics too?
 
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

McCoy's wife is named Jocelyn in A Choice of Catastrophes, but he does refer to her as "honey" at one point.
 
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

McCoy's wife is named Jocelyn in A Choice of Catastrophes, but he does refer to her as "honey" at one point.

Ha! That's what I figured. I did kind of think it would be funny if her name really was Honey.
That book is in my stacks too.
 
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

Number One from "The Cage" pilot has popped up in various novels and comics, featured heavily in the New Frontier series, had her own comic series, and will soon appear in a photo-comic -- after only appearing canonically in said pilot (and the "Menagarie" two-parter). Not too shabby.
 
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

Gary Seven and Roberta Lincoln have had a healthy afterlife in the comics and books as well, despite appearing in only one episode.
 
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

Number One from "The Cage" pilot has popped up in various novels and comics, featured heavily in the New Frontier series, had her own comic series, and will soon appear in a photo-comic -- after only appearing canonically in said pilot (and the "Menagarie" two-parter). Not too shabby.

She's actually already appeared in a photo-comic -- She had a cameo appearance at the very end of the first one that John Byrne did.
 
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

I may have someone who can beat Vedek Yevir for second place: Cenn Desca.

True, we never actually see his Prime counterpart, but Disavowed reveals that he was the Bajoran security guard from whom Bashir grabbed the gun that he used to shoot μOdo. He shows up so briefly that I can't even see him in the TrekCore screenshots. That beats Yevir– at least Sisko talked to him.
Also, Christopher's Ex Machina takes crewmembers who only appeared onscreen ever so briefly and really fleshes them out (to varying degrees for different characters, but still).

DGRIII's Enterprise-B books are striking to me because they feature almost entirely original casts, being so far removed chronologically from Generations that the canon characters have all had serious time to grow and change and become completely different characters. John Harriman and Demora Sulu are who we're talking about here.
 
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

So which character has the least onscreen time or mentions but the most appearances in the spin-off literature?

Dr. M'Benga has appeared a fair amount for someone who only showed up in two episodes. Ditto Kevin Riley. And Yeoman Tonia Barrows from "Shore Leave" plays a part in several of the TOS novels I have (The Crucible Trilogy, Crossroads, and Mike W. Barr's Gemini), as well as the last issue of the first volume of DC's Star Trek comic.
 
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

borgboy said:
I wish I could retcon Spock's brother out of continuity. He was an ill fitting addition to that family. I can think of lots of novels that explore Spock's childhood, but I can't think of any appearance of the brother outside STV.
Wheras I think Sybok fixes a huge hole in Spock's backstory. Why would Sarek, who married a human women, insist so forcefully that Spock choose the Vulcan way of life? It makes no sense whatsoever - unless you factor in another son, full-Vulcan, who was exiled for refusing the Vulcan way. Sarek instantly goes from being a massive prick to a guy trying to make sure Spock (and Amanda) don't share Sybok's fate.
 
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

I have read Planet of Judgement. I think the name Honey may show up elsewhere, but that could just be my imagination inserting the name whenever the ex Mrs McCoy is brought up.

That's the only use of it that I recall ever coming across.


I can easily accept Honey as a knickname for Jocelyn and/or Pamela.
PoJ does clearly use it as her given name. It is never actually spoken by McCoy in addressing her, but appears only in the narrative text and is used as a name (e.g. "Honey and Joanna were still in Joanna's room"). Since the scene was from McCoy's POV, one could bend over to interpret it as his nickname for her in his own thoughts, but it seems implausible to me that he'd unwaveringly think of his wife by a term of endearment even while she's walking out on him and taking his daughter away.


I have both Shadow on the Sun and the reboot comics in my very big to read list, so I'll eventually get to form an opinion over whether I think Pamela and Jocelyn are the same woman. Given that it's an alternate universe I can accept that McCoy has a totally different ex wife.
Possibly, although in most Trek alternate timelines, the same people have a way of ending up together and having the same children. But hey, if Chekov somehow managed to be born four years early, I guess it's possible.


From their appearances do they have a similar appearance and/or personality? Is there any mention anywhere of the reboot McCoy having a daughter?
Shadows on the Sun describes Jocelyn with dark brown hair (the color of "fine ground coffee") and dark blue or blue-gray eyes. The one picture I can find online of Pamela shows her with dark-ish brown hair, so maybe it's compatible -- or maybe Bones just has a type.

Memory Beta doesn't mention alt-McCoy having a child.


I have heard that McCoy has a daughter Barbara in the Gold Key comics. I've heard the theory put out there that McCoy could have two daughters, possibly with different mothers.
I don't see the need to assume that, since the Gold Key comics are such a weird, distorted version of the Trek universe that they can't be reconciled in any case. Not to mention that Barbara seems to be a completely different person in her two Gold Key appearances -- in issue 40 she's a wavy-haired brunette who likes her father just fine, but three issues later she's a straighter-haired blonde who deeply resents her father for not being there for her childhood and reminds him of it at every opportunity. Of course, hair can be dyed and restyled, but the change in relationship is harder to reconcile.


I haven't read that comic or any books with Joanna yet outside of her brief appearance in Planet of Judgement, I wonder if we could write off the issue as being Joanna using her middle name for awhile?
Joanna is generally portrayed as following her father into medicine, while Barbara is presented as a xenobiologist. Also, Barbara seems to be a few years older than Joanna.


Doesn't Kirk have a sister in the Gold Key comics too?
Not that I can tell. Memory Beta says nothing about it, and the only Google hit I get is your own question. Of course, he had a sister-in-law, Aurelan.

I wish I could retcon Spock's brother out of continuity. He was an ill fitting addition to that family. I can think of lots of novels that explore Spock's childhood, but I can't think of any appearance of the brother outside STV.
It's unclear how much older Sybok was than Spock. Spock tells Sybok "I am not the outcast boy you left behind those many years ago," suggesting that he was still fairly young when Sybok split from the family. We've only really seen Spock as an infant, at around age 7, and as an older teen and young adult, as far as I can recall. It's possible Sybok was over a decade older and was already moved out by the time of "Yesteryear," and was fully estranged and disowned by the time we saw Spock as an adolescent (in Vulcan's Forge, for example).


Wheras I think Sybok fixes a huge hole in Spock's backstory. Why would Sarek, who married a human women, insist so forcefully that Spock choose the Vulcan way of life? It makes no sense whatsoever - unless you factor in another son, full-Vulcan, who was exiled for refusing the Vulcan way. Sarek instantly goes from being a massive prick to a guy trying to make sure Spock (and Amanda) don't share Sybok's fate.

That's a good point. It does add something to the family backstory. It also fills another gap, since we know Vulcan marriages are arranged in childhood, so it stands to reason that Sarek would've had another wife before Amanda.



McCoy's wife is named Jocelyn in A Choice of Catastrophes, but he does refer to her as "honey" at one point.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. Sorry.


Also, Christopher's Ex Machina takes crewmembers who only appeared onscreen ever so briefly and really fleshes them out (to varying degrees for different characters, but still).

But they've only appeared in 2-3 different stories at most, since none of my fellow authors have done anything with the characters.
 
Last edited:
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

Security Chief Giotto is probably another one who does quite well: only one TV episode, but a ton of novels, I'll bet.
 
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

How about Grand Nagus Zek's son who appeared in just one episode and then, as I recall, it was implied feet that that Zek's never had any children.
 
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

borgboy said:
I wish I could retcon Spock's brother out of continuity. He was an ill fitting addition to that family. I can think of lots of novels that explore Spock's childhood, but I can't think of any appearance of the brother outside STV.
Wheras I think Sybok fixes a huge hole in Spock's backstory. Why would Sarek, who married a human women, insist so forcefully that Spock choose the Vulcan way of life? It makes no sense whatsoever - unless you factor in another son, full-Vulcan, who was exiled for refusing the Vulcan way. Sarek instantly goes from being a massive prick to a guy trying to make sure Spock (and Amanda) don't share Sybok's fate.

Personally, I thought it never made much sense for Sarek to be so hard on Spock if he had another, full Vulcan son who acted completely emotional. I'd think that Spock would become the favored child in that situation. Plus, I had trouble with Spock not saying anything about his brother to Kirk & McCoy when they were as close as the movies depicted. TOS might've gotten away with it.
 
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

Personally, I thought it never made much sense for Sarek to be so hard on Spock if he had another, full Vulcan son who acted completely emotional. I'd think that Spock would become the favored child in that situation.

On the contrary, I think that would make Sarek all the more concerned about the risk of Spock going down the same path, especially since he was half-human and thus "more prone" to emotionalism. (Which is ridiculous -- Vulcan emotions are intrinsically more potent than human emotions, which is why they needed to embrace logic -- but it's a prejudice they seem to take for granted.) So it makes sense that he'd overreact to any sign of Spock straying from the proper Vulcan path, e.g. joining Starfleet and serving alongside humans.


Plus, I had trouble with Spock not saying anything about his brother to Kirk & McCoy when they were as close as the movies depicted. TOS might've gotten away with it.

Sybok hadn't been a part of his life for decades. The family had completely disowned him, so officially he no longer counted as a member of Spock's family. He was just a distant memory from Spock's childhood, not relevant to his life. And he was a family embarrassment, a crazy cult leader. I don't see why Spock would have wanted to bring him up until it became necessary. Heck, even when it did become relevant, Spock was reluctant to come clean about his relationship to Sybok. We know from long experience that it's not easy for Spock to talk about his personal issues, especially embarrassing ones (e.g. pon farr).
 
Re: Biggest gap between on-screen and literature in terms of appearanc

Sybok hadn't been a part of his life for decades. The family had completely disowned him, so officially he no longer counted as a member of Spock's family. He was just a distant memory from Spock's childhood, not relevant to his life. And he was a family embarrassment, a crazy cult leader. I don't see why Spock would have wanted to bring him up until it became necessary. Heck, even when it did become relevant, Spock was reluctant to come clean about his relationship to Sybok. We know from long experience that it's not easy for Spock to talk about his personal issues, especially embarrassing ones (e.g. pon farr).

I can buy Spock not talking about Sybok. I find it less believable that Sybok was completely unknown to Kirk & McCoy when Spock basically downloaded his consciousness into one of them. You wouldn't think that they'd have many secrets left from each other after something like that.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top