BIG PLOT HOLE

[monetteman]

In Descent pt.2 it was established that there was a trans warp hub that took the Enterprise into the Delta Quadrant.
In Scorpion, why did Janeway not fight for using this, opting instead for safe passage through Borg Space????
Anybody?

 

[Candlelight]

Space is big.

 

[USS Excelsior]

I don't remember them saying anything about Delta Quadrant in Descent.

I do remember saying that it transported them 65 light years from where they last were.

 

[Plecostomus]

We never saw the hub. Just the conduit. The Enterprise D didn't know about the hub system at that point, they only had the access code/signature for the conduit segment between here and there.

 

[Plecostomus]

Re: BIG PLOT HOLE--FILLED IN AND PAVED OVER!

You have to remember, we're remote observers. We have the whole picture. The characters do not.

Plus Decent was written long long before Voyager was conceived! You can't expect the writers from one show to have memorized every fact and plot detail from previous shows.

If you really want an in-universe explanation consider what I mentioned above. At the point Voyager launched they knew a little bit about Borg transwarp, and the specific conduit segment that the Enterprise accessed. They had no reason to suspect that it was a galaxy-wide ubernetwork of doom like it was at the end of Voyager.


Leads to all kinds of speculation about Wolf359 and the Borg Scout that Hugh was a part of... prehaps these ships were on missions to establish routes to the AQ, and it wasn't until Voyager that a stable conduit was established. Thankfully Janeway put the brakes on that, and at least alerted everyone to the Borg's ability to pop in unexpected that close to Earth.

 

[startrekwatcher]

monetteman said:
In Descent pt.2 it was established that there was a trans warp hub that took the Enterprise into the Delta Quadrant.
In Scorpion, why did Janeway not fight for using this, opting instead for safe passage through Borg Space????
Anybody?

Well I always assumed in Descent that the transwarp technology was Lore's or something the rogue Borg came up with. Picard didn't recognize it and presumably his time as part of the Collective he would know if they had such a thing.

I think Brannon Braga and Joe Menosky just decided to take that and use it to their own ends in Scorpion. Really transwarp was all over the place in VOY. First, Seven tried to recreate it with the deflector dish and then in Dark Frontier they spoke of coils and then Endgame suggested it was a manufactured hub.

I think subsequent writers just put their own spin on it. Up until Scorpion I just assumed that the Borg used a source of power that allowed them to travel like warp factor 9.99999999999...... which is exponentially faster than say the maximum velocity sustainable of a Fed ship going say 9.9.

That would eplain how the cube traveled 7000 light years from J-25 to Federation space in over a year.

 

[Candlelight]

startrekwatcher said:
I think subsequent writers just put their own spin on it. Up until Scorpion I just assumed that the Borg used a source of power that allowed them to travel like warp factor 9.99999999999...... which is exponentially faster than say the maximum velocity sustainable of a Fed ship going say 9.9.

Does raise the question: if the hub can transport a ship over 35,000ly in a matter of minutes, why haven't the Borg sent hundreds of cubes to every part of the galaxy to assimilate everyone, including the Earth?

 

[kipron]

Year of Hell said:

startrekwatcher said:
I think subsequent writers just put their own spin on it. Up until Scorpion I just assumed that the Borg used a source of power that allowed them to travel like warp factor 9.99999999999...... which is exponentially faster than say the maximum velocity sustainable of a Fed ship going say 9.9.

Does raise the question: if the hub can transport a ship over 35,000ly in a matter of minutes, why haven't the Borg sent hundreds of cubes to every part of the galaxy to assimilate everyone, including the Earth?

Because...er...

OMG look over there!

*runs away*

 

[Candlelight]

Where'd kipron go?

 

[Anwar]

Because conquest isn't the Borg's goal. They just want to assimilate the best tech to better themselves. The Transwarp just makes it easier to look around.

Wonder why they they always attack Earth but never attack Kronos or Romulus? Because they use Earth as a test site for new assimilation methods or as an occasional "lets see how they've changed" guinea pig. They don't take the Feds seriously, with good reason.

 

[Timo]

Well I always assumed in Descent that the transwarp technology was Lore's or something the rogue Borg came up with. Picard didn't recognize it and presumably his time as part of the Collective he would know if they had such a thing.

I don't think we should believe the Borg told Picard anything crucially important. Picard as Locutus may have believed he was privy to the innermost secrets of the Borg, but the reality was probably very different.

Certainly the "Descent" transwarp route looks different from the various VOY ones. We don't even get confirmation that it (or any other Borg transwarp route not directly tied to the hubs) would be permanent. For all we know, these things decay rapidly after they fall into disuse, and a ship has to have a transwarp coil to create a new one. Certainly a ship doesn't need a transwarp coil to utilize an already constructed route...

Some graphics in "Descent" do suggest the Borg route led to the Delta Quadrant, but there is no information on where in Delta. The minimum distance to be traveled would be 25,000-30,000 ly, though, assuming they were originally somewhere near Earth. Pretty good going. But as said, the Borg have many methods of traversing the galaxy rapidly... This could be but one of the dozens of transwarp technologies they have assimilated in the past. IIRC, it looks a bit like the slipstream thing from "Hope and Fear".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[propita]

The Borg don't assimilate willy-nilly. Didn't they opt-out of assimiliating the Kazon--that such assimilation would be going agasint their goal of "achieving perfection"?

As for humans, I bet assimilating some is okay. Too many at one time and the conflict/individuality could not be dealt with satisfactorily. Individuality (and hatred of captivity) seemed to be a repeated theme throughout all of the series.

The Borg would likely have to assimilate humans a (rather large) group at a time, but not all at once. Stiff-necked, minor bipedal species that we are, we are still a pain-in-the-neck to deal with.

 

[exodus]

propita said:
The Borg don't assimilate willy-nilly. Didn't they opt-out of assimiliating the Kazon--that such assimilation would be going agasint their goal of "achieving perfection"?

As for humans, I bet assimilating some is okay. Too many at one time and the conflict/individuality could not be dealt with satisfactorily. Individuality (and hatred of captivity) seemed to be a repeated theme throughout all of the series.

The Borg would likely have to assimilate humans a (rather large) group at a time, but not all at once. Stiff-necked, minor bipedal species that we are, we are still a pain-in-the-neck to deal with.

I wonder if birth defects matter to the Borg?

For example: Would they not assimilate Geordi because he's blind?

 

[od0_ital]

^

Accordin' to Hugh (aka Third of Five, TNG 'I, Borg'), Geordi bein' blind wouldn't be an issue - his vision would be augmented by the Borg and he wouldn't be blind. Basically, they'd replace his VISOR with something else.

The Borg have attachments to every damn thing - they would find a way to work around biological defects to drones.

 

[startrekwatcher]

propita said:
As for humans, I bet assimilating some is okay. Too many at one time and the conflict/individuality could not be dealt with satisfactorily. Individuality (and hatred of captivity) seemed to be a repeated theme throughout all of the series.

It really shouldn't matter how many they assimilate. The victim's individuality is easily suppressed by the Borg technology.

 

[exodus]

startrekwatcher said:

propita said:
As for humans, I bet assimilating some is okay. Too many at one time and the conflict/individuality could not be dealt with satisfactorily. Individuality (and hatred of captivity) seemed to be a repeated theme throughout all of the series.

It really shouldn't matter how many they assimilate. The victim's individuality is easily suppressed by the Borg technology.

True, we've watch the Borg assimilate entire planets all at one time.

 

[Nebusj]

exodus said:
True, we've watch the Borg assimilate entire planets all at one time.

Hm ... have we? I admit to missing basically any Borg Adventure stories on Voyager, but have we seen them carving up and assimilating locals of anyone?

 

[startrekwatcher]

Nebusj said:

exodus said:
True, we've watch the Borg assimilate entire planets all at one time.

Hm ... have we? I admit to missing basically any Borg Adventure stories on Voyager, but have we seen them carving up and assimilating locals of anyone?

In Dark Frontier we see the Borg assimilating Species 10026.

The Queen accompanies I believe three cubes to the planet. We never see onscreen the assimilation planetside we do see glimpses onboard the Queen's cube of members being worked upon by the Borg.

 

[Candlelight]

I don't think I've ever seen Dark Frontier. Is it any good? I remember seeing bits of the first episode and not being very interested in it.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Year of Hell said:
I don't think I've ever seen Dark Frontier. Is it any good? I remember seeing bits of the first episode and not being very interested in it.

I liked it. It sheds some light on the Hansens and the Borg to a degree. When I first watched it I couldn't totally enjoy it because there were a lot of revelations and assertions that caught me off guard that I had to mull them over. After reconciling some of the stuff as far as how well it tracks with continuity and earlier Borg episodes/film I was mostly satisfied with it as a decent action adventure telefilm.