Better uses for Discovery

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Search4, Dec 6, 2020.

  1. Search4

    Search4 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Location:
    New York City
    My pet peeve - and am enjoying the show - aren’t there far better uses for Discovery than what we have seen?

    - re-engineering the spore drive?
    - figuring out the Tardigrade DNA?
    - building a new automated navigator?
    - jumping to empty planets (say far away - Andromeda anyone?) and installing Dilithium mining facilities?

    etc. instead we see petty criminal take downs and observer missions.

    You’re CIC Starfleet - what would you use this special ship for in these circumstances?
     
  2. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Location:
    The Wormhole
    There probably are initiatives underway on all three of these options. They're likely top secret since Admiral Vance is trying to keep the spore drive classified at the moment.
    According to interviews with the writers, the Federation did have a presence in other galaxies before the Burn, and the Burn happened in them as well.
    As an emergency rapid responder, exactly what its use currently is.
     
  3. ScottJ85

    ScottJ85 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Location:
    Australia
    They really should mention this on screen at some point. It makes finding answers to the Burn all the more important. If it spread to other galaxies, it has the potential to make conventional warp travel impossible everywhere in the universe. Since it has a point of origin, it could be possible to halt its spread.
     
  4. Annorax849

    Annorax849 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 22, 2014
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I was wondering if they would try jumping around the Universe, basically picking a random galaxy and checking to see if the Burn effected them the same way. Though I guess sensors would already be advanced enough to tell them that.
     
  5. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Vasquez Rocks, Bajor
    But are any of those the best premise for a TV show?
     
    Vger23 likes this.
  6. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Trek writers have demonstrated they have a big issue using various technologies on a larger scope and expanding their frame of reference.
    Why do you think they made it look like the Federation was still dependent on dilithium and M/AM for power generation (not to mention still using Warp) when 810 years prior they had a diverse portfolio and research facilities dedicated to alternative power generation, and FTL technologies (not to mention the fact all the technical scans and technologies Voyager brought back from the Delta Quadrant that SF and the Federation would realistically be able to make very good use of in just 5-10 years since Voyager's return)?

    Their whole story comes apart with some logical thinking and consistency in place.
    I mean, it wouldn't kill them to make stuff in Trek consistent and a bit more realistic based on what we saw and the fact science and technology evolve exponentially.

    This makes it look like for the last 810 years (since late 24th century), they barely made a few decades worth of advancement... with everything else being mostly the same.
    Its a bit pathetic and disappointing when you think about it.
     
  7. Tom

    Tom Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Location:
    In your Mind!
    Its seems very contadictary . How can they get to other galaxies with standard warp drive? Wouldnt they have to be traveling at warp 9.99999999 something ;) . Also in Voyager's Relativity, Braxtons ship can seeming almost go instantaniously from Utopia Planitia to Voyager in the Delta Quadrent. It a makes it unbelivable the the 32nd century Federation is so dependant on Dillithium Warp Drive.
     
  8. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Warp 9.9 = 4 billion miles per second, which translates to 21 473 times speed of light (this is what we know from what Tom Paris said on-screen).
    At that speed, it would take Voyager about 3.5 years to get back to the Alpha Quadrant... but Voyager's hull started breaking apart when nearing Warp 9.9, and they could maybe sustain 9.75 for 12 hours.
    The only appreciable top speed Voyager could probably comfortably for extended periods of time would be Warp 9.5 (but Voyager was also in an unexplored area of the galaxy, so the crew couldn't know where they could find needed resources to stock up if they were constantly running at Warp 9.5 or even 9.6 - which is why they usually cruised at Warp 6).
    The USS Prometheus was the only SF ship in late 24th century able of hitting Warp 9.9 without suffering structural issues and was also able to sustain it.

    Past Warp 9.9, speeds increase exponentially... so for them to reach say Andromeda galaxy in about 4.5 hours, they would need to travel at roughly Warp 9.9999.
    Warp 9.975 would give them a speed of about 10 000 Ly's per day (or about 270 days to Andromeda galaxy)... and there are other nearby dwarf galaxies.

    We hadn't officially (on-screen) seen that Starfleet achieved any significant breakthroughs in Warp speeds in the past 810 years (which is preposterous in itself) and nothing was mentioned on how fast SF's Warp drive in the 32nd century was.

    At best, they may have achieved say Warp 9.96 or 9.975 as a maximum and can get around the Milky Way comfortably... and even potentially reach other nearby dwarf galaxies (the nearest ones being LMC at 179 000 Ly's away and SMC at 210 000 Ly's away).
    At 10 000 Ly's per day, they could to LMC in 18 days, whereas for SMC it would take them 21 days.

    However, we've seen in Discovery that Admiral Vance mentioned to some SF captains runs to 2 planets... one trip would take about a week or so, whereas the other (for replicator replacements/repairs) indicated it would take 2 months until she came back (so 1 month there and 1 month back at most - and this is assuming that they wouldn't be pushing maximum Warp either but were cruising at a different speed).

    Realistically, Voyager's Quantum Slipstream (version 2) topped out at 10 000 Ly's per minute... that would get you to Andromeda in about 4.5 hrs.
    The version 1 of Quantum Slipstream didn't require Benamite Crystals and topped out at 300 Ly's per hour (at maximum - for long sustained flights spanning months, the speed dropped to about 740 Ly's per day).

    The USS Relativity never went to the Delta Quadrant (that we know of). The ship used temporal transporters to beam 7 of 9 through space and time.
    However, the timeship Aeon (Braxton's small ship which Voyager first encountered) was able to generate a temporal rift seemingly in Earth's solar system with an aperture in the Delta Quadrant (70 000 Ly's away) which would technically allow a ship to cross a galaxy in an instant.

    The problem with that right was, its temporal technology (Which was banned with the conclusion of the Temporal Wars) in the 31st century (just over 120 years before the Burn) - which seems very stupid to do.. you could just use the technology as a shortcut to travel anywhere in the universe (much like the Spore Drive) but with an in-built modification that prevents it to be used to travel through time (alas, this is unlikely to happen because any and all temporal technology explicitly used to travel through time would likely be banned... including that rift generating technology).

    But yes, it IS rather unthinkable that 810 years after 24th century, Starfleet would still be dependent on dilithium and M/AM (or even Warp).
    I would have imagined they would have put dilithium and M/AM to the dustbin 25-100 years after Voyager got back... but the writers apparently didn't think that way so we got what we got.
     
  9. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    King Daniel Beyond
    They establish in S1 they can go anywhere in the universe. I'd hop galaxies.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
  10. ITDUDE

    ITDUDE Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 15, 2001
    Writers don’t care about such silly things as continuity and facts. ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
  11. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Vasquez Rocks, Bajor
    I'll say it again. If anything they care too much. :lol:
     
    SolarisOne, Vger23 and fireproof78 like this.
  12. Fateor

    Fateor Captain Captain

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    You forgot transporting orbital defenses mass produced from their core worlds to more vulnerable worlds and edging the Emerald Chain out of existence via bullworks too tough for them to break through without massive losses in ships that as a criminal syndicate they couldn't afford.
     
    Search4 likes this.
  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Annoyed by inappropriate use of the word "Need"
    Not necessarily. Honestly, the Federation is on its heels and more protectionist than ever before. Using Discovery as they are makes more sense from their point of view.
     
  14. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    I guess we could argue that the heroes have Admiral Vance by the short and sensitives: they can do whatever they please (including engaging in rogue missions) as long as Vance is in need of a rapid responder, because they are in a position to withhold this asset from Vance. All it takes is Stamets saying no, after all.

    This is not a particularly stable arrangement, and no doubt Vance will work out means of counter-blackmail eventually. However, we have only seen four missions so far, and one of those was unauthorized. As the heroes have now screwed up big time and ignited a war, it remains to be seen how the fifth mission will go. But if anything, this setup offers even more ways for our heroes to twist Vance's arm... And to pursue selfish agendas such as solving the Burn mystery or saving Georgiou's life.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
    Search4 likes this.
  15. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Location:
    Germany
    Iirc they didn't mention if these planets were actually in our galaxy or not. Could be that they weren't :whistle:

    We actually don't know how much warp technology has advanced. All we have is speculation ;)

    By the way, Transwarp is a thing in the 32nd century according to "The Sanctuary"...
     
  16. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Maybe to the point where they take well established stuff and then render it unusable because of 'reasons' (that don't make any sense whatsoever).

    Yes, but given how small the Federation became (35 or 38 planets down from 350 at its peak), its unlikely any of those are extra-galactic. They are likely INSIDE the Milky Way - and given what Vance mentioned about the Emerald Chain and limits on how few ships SF has right now, its very unlikely any of the planets are in nearby galaxies (though it WOULD be nice if they were).

    My point exactly, but its very likely that the state of Warp technology is (probably) not that much different compared to the 24th century (given what we've seen thus far).

    If they managed to double the top speeds every century (like they did from the 23rd to the 24th), and speeds increasing exponentially with every increment after 9.9, then that might be a rough equivalent of about Warp 9.97 (810 years from 24th century to the 32nd... minus 100-120 years if you factor in that technology didn't really advance/change since the Burn occurred [which is stupid enough] - resulting in about 700 odd years of advancement and twice the increase in speed per 100 years giving us something like this:
    Warp 9.9 (21 473 times Light Speed) in late 24th century
    9.91 (42 946 x LS) in late 25th century
    9.92 (85 892 x LS) in late 26th century
    9.93 (171 784 x LS) in late 27th century
    9.94 (343,568 x LS) in late 28th century
    9.95 (687 136 x LS) in late 29th century
    9.96 (1 374 272 x LS) in late 30th century
    9.97 (2 748 544 x LS) in late 31st century (this is roughly when the Burn happens too, so we should likely assume that no progression occurred since then (given how the writers apparently LOVE to do this) - despite the fact that technology would NOT stop advancing even after the Burn... if anything, SF has more than enough resources and supercomputers with every ship docked at HQ to continue making significant breakthroughs at faster than exponential pace... even with 38 planets remaining in the Federation and delayed subspace communications... but they probably won't even go down this route.

    Not quite.
    Burnham mentioned about 50% chance of surviving a passage through a TW conduit (which I think is ridiculous because SF had 810 freaking years to analyze and adapt to the stresses inside a TW conduit... and we know that when Voyager used a TW coil to open its own conduit along with the Delta Flyer, their structural integrities were perfectly fine - and that was already in the late 24th century).
    Plus, SF no longer uses Duranium or Tritanium... they have a combo of Neutronium, holographics and organics... stuff that's arguably MORE advanced than what the Borg even used (their ships were Tritanium based much like Federation ships of the time).

    As I said, the writers are taking well known stuff and just barely inching things forward (as if merely a few decades passed since the late 24th century... not 8 centuries).
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Annoyed by inappropriate use of the word "Need"
    Sounds like the transporter being broken over and over again. :guffaw:
     
  18. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Location:
    Nuevo México
  19. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Try more like the Warp core ejection system.
    Or the Holodeck.

    Seriously, the writers just love breaking technology for the sake of making the story work... as opposed to adapting the story to the technology (so both work more convincingly in the same setting).
     
  20. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Vice Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Location:
    London
    The technology issue re dilithium would be better if they had jumped a few centuries past the TNG era.
    However considering 'the only ship in the fleet' syndrome being a rapid responder makes sense.