Betrayed by a kiss? *Movie Spoiler alert*

[Middle Earther]

I just saw the movie yesterday and I did found it entertaining and "hip", but I do have reservations. I do this because I'm interested in what some think about my ideas here. I do not believe a disagreement with the majority needs to cause a "rift" in the ST community. Some don't like DS9 or Enterprise or whichever movie and that's OK. I just didn't like everything about the new one and this is my attempt to explain why.

I can see why the numbers are there and I can see why this will go down in history as a successful "reboot" of the series. It will make tons of money and that's just the way it is: I get it. I'm going against the grain by writing this, but Star Trek was supposed to be about going against the grain and perhaps it never should be "new, hip and uptodate." However, I can't get past the feeling that this is not really a "reboot" as others have been done. Let me try to organize my thoughts and explain why. I will also warn anyone out there that there will be spoilers coming. See the movie first and then come back to this.

Batman, Battlestar Galactica and James Bond have also done the "reboot" thing and started anew, but none of them betrayed their roots like this movie has done. All three of these franchises had something in common: they all kind of fell into "campiness" and silliness at some point and people just lost interest in the goofiness of it all. All three reboots did the same thing, though: they looked to the roots of the stories, stripped them to essentials and began again. The basic story of all three - the foundations of all three - stayed the same. This is important because it is in the foundations that we discover what brought us to these stories in the first place.

About the "nuTrek" as some are starting to label this movie: it has done what no other "reboot" has done - attacked and destroyed foundations (literally) by destroying Vulcan and betraying Vulcan culture with a kiss. It basically has eliminated all the TV series and movies that have gone before it with its time travel plot. It is an alternative universe, which is fine with some, but not with me.

Spock's character as revealed during the movie is not Vulcan in his behavior, which is just not consistent with who Spock and Vulcans have developed into over the course of the many shows and movies. Vulcans never - repeat NEVER - display affection in public. It is completely alien (drum riff) to their way of life - it would never even occur to them it is so distasteful. I have no difficulty with Spock/Uhura having a relationship, but openly kissing in front of not only others, but a superior officer is not going to happen. This single event took me out of the movie and wrecked that "suspension of disbelief" that others keep talking about. It is especially unrealistic in light of the destruction of Vulcan and the death of Amanda, Spock's mother. If I have learned anything about "human" nature, it is that in times of extreme crisis we tend to cling to what we know and even have a tendency to become more fundamentalistic about our beliefs. Spock would not kiss Uhura in public - that is not Spock.

Star Trek, ultimately, is about characters and challenges to our ways of living and thinking. It is not a space opera like Star Wars. It is a way of exploring what it means to be human and the alien races on the series were ways of exploring different parts of human nature. I feel that this movie gave up on the thought and character development in favor of the quick joke, the grand special effects, and something that would appeal to a wider audience. The question that I have then is: Was Star Trek ever supposed to appeal to a wider audience? Maybe not...

 

[-Brett-]

If you think a fictional planet seen maybe half a dozen times and some cultural trivia that I've never heard even after watching Star Trek on-and-off for years is the "foundation" of the franchise, then maybe Star Trek is just no longer for you.

 

[CinC_UFPForces]

I fail to see how we're better served by the legacy of Trek being six people in a room watching the restored version of The Cage over and over again, lost to the rest of humanity.

Glad to hear your viewpoint on the Spock-Uhura relationship, but the idea that Trek ought to be by definition too cool to sit at the lunch table with everyone else is a recipe for...well, it's a recipe for the last 10 years.

 

[M'Sharak]

<snip>

Spock's character as revealed during the movie is not Vulcan in his behavior, which is just not consistent with who Spock and Vulcans have developed into over the course of the many shows and movies. Vulcans never - repeat NEVER - display affection in public. It is completely alien (drum riff) to their way of life - <snip>

Heh, good one.

I'm reminded, however, of an interview Quinto gave a year ago, more or less, in which he offered the then-somewhat-cryptic explanation that the story takes place at a time when Spock "is not in control of his balance," which suggests that it was intended to be seen as atypical Vulcan behavior.

 

[Middle Earther]

<snip>

Spock's character as revealed during the movie is not Vulcan in his behavior, which is just not consistent with who Spock and Vulcans have developed into over the course of the many shows and movies. Vulcans never - repeat NEVER - display affection in public. It is completely alien (drum riff) to their way of life - <snip>

Heh, good one.

I'm reminded, however, of an interview Quinto gave a year ago, more or less, in which he offered the then-somewhat-cryptic explanation that the story takes place at a time when Spock "is not in control of his balance," which suggests that it was intended to be seen as atypical Vulcan behavior.

Hmmm...I'll have to think about that one. Although what about in front of a superior officer? I just wonder about how "loose" Starfleet regs seem here.

 

[KennyB]

Sweet Jesus here we go again............

 

[Middle Earther]

If you think a fictional planet seen maybe half a dozen times and some cultural trivia that I've never heard even after watching Star Trek on-and-off for years is the "foundation" of the franchise, then maybe Star Trek is just no longer for you.

I have to respond that I am really out of it when it comes to posting and the fan community, but if you have never heard of the "cultural trivia" I cited about Vulcan, then you really haven't watched Star Trek. I even wonder if you "get it" beyond the special effects and flashiness. I suggest you watch TOS first, which is enough to understand Vulcan culture.

 

[M'Sharak]

<snip>

Spock's character as revealed during the movie is not Vulcan in his behavior, which is just not consistent with who Spock and Vulcans have developed into over the course of the many shows and movies. Vulcans never - repeat NEVER - display affection in public. It is completely alien (drum riff) to their way of life - <snip>

Heh, good one.

I'm reminded, however, of an interview Quinto gave a year ago, more or less, in which he offered the then-somewhat-cryptic explanation that the story takes place at a time when Spock "is not in control of his balance," which suggests that it was intended to be seen as atypical Vulcan behavior.

Hmmm...I'll have to think about that one. Although what about in front of a superior officer? I just wonder about how "loose" Starfleet regs seem here.

I don't know what to say about Starfleet regs governing such conduct or how rigorously one could expect they'd be applied under the circumstances in question, but here's a link to the TrekMovie article, which has interview excerpts and contains a link to the complete interview.

 

[JoeZhang]

I certainly agree that Vulcans never show emotion in Public.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6408JrvFNWc

 

[zambingo]

I don't get why people are upset by Uhura drooling on Spock and Spock loosing his composure for a second and hitting that back up. It's not like Spock then bent her over in the turbolift. lol

Vulcans have emotions, they just do... or like to believe they do... a better job at not being ruled by their emotions than other species.

Uhura's hotsauce. As one redneck racist put it back in the 60s after Kirk and Uhura kissed... (extremely paraphrased) any red blooded American boy would have to get some of that.

Now granted Spock has green blood, but he's half human and was definitely not himself at that moment.

Also as we saw earlier in the film Sarek told Spock that macking on hot human chicks is logical.

Of course I will concede that I would have liked to see these scenes being played with Nurse Chapel and Spock, but then the film would have needed to insert and explain yet another character. Uhura's role here is fine. She was quite fond of Spock in TOS.

Also, I believe it is plausible to conclude that this tale isn't just a time line alteration story...

http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=2962509#post2962509

 

[JoeZhang]

<snip>

Spock's character as revealed during the movie is not Vulcan in his behavior, which is just not consistent with who Spock and Vulcans have developed into over the course of the many shows and movies. Vulcans never - repeat NEVER - display affection in public. It is completely alien (drum riff) to their way of life - <snip>

Heh, good one.

I'm reminded, however, of an interview Quinto gave a year ago, more or less, in which he offered the then-somewhat-cryptic explanation that the story takes place at a time when Spock "is not in control of his balance," which suggests that it was intended to be seen as atypical Vulcan behavior.

Hmmm...I'll have to think about that one. Although what about in front of a superior officer? I just wonder about how "loose" Starfleet regs seem here.

It's in front of James T Kirk - Grandmaster bootie himself! They are both going off to almost certain death, Kirk isn't going to begrudge Spock a little bootie call first. Indeed, he'd suggest it would be "most logical".

 

[seniorsleuth]

<snip>

Spock's character as revealed during the movie is not Vulcan in his behavior, which is just not consistent with who Spock and Vulcans have developed into over the course of the many shows and movies. Vulcans never - repeat NEVER - display affection in public. It is completely alien (drum riff) to their way of life - <snip>

Heh, good one.

I'm reminded, however, of an interview Quinto gave a year ago, more or less, in which he offered the then-somewhat-cryptic explanation that the story takes place at a time when Spock "is not in control of his balance," which suggests that it was intended to be seen as atypical Vulcan behavior.

I think by this he was referring to the destruction of his planet and death of his mother, so that his behavior would have been atypical, perhaps, but not out of bounds for a half human/half Vulcan who just witnessed his human parent die. He was also going off on a mission from which he calculated that he had little chance of a safe return.

I would never want nuSpock to behave just the same as a typical human male, but I think the story has sufficiently set him up to continue struggling between his two halves but in some ways to be more embracing of his human side than he was in the original.

I can understand if people prefer Spock not to be changed or in a romance at all. But at the time the character was created, heroes in drama series NEVER had developing romantic relationships with regular characters, which had the unfortunate side effect of making them either womanizers (Kirk) or celibate (Spock) and female characters either disposable (alien female of the week) or relatively insignificant (Uhura).

So, I think this development is refreshing, and I hope they continue to handle it delicately.

 

[Middle Earther]

Good points, but I will still stand by the idea that to overcome such a cultural taboo so quickly is actually impossible for realistic characters in any story,especially in light of the destruction of the planet, not just in Star Trek and it took me "out of" the movie.

 

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

What is the point of Spock being half-Vulcan, if he doesn't get to experience what it is to be half-human part of the time. If he acted like a full Vulcan all the time, there's no real point to having him be a hybrid whatsoever.

 

[-Brett-]

If you think a fictional planet seen maybe half a dozen times and some cultural trivia that I've never heard even after watching Star Trek on-and-off for years is the "foundation" of the franchise, then maybe Star Trek is just no longer for you.

I have to respond that I am really out of it when it comes to posting and the fan community, but if you have never heard of the "cultural trivia" I cited about Vulcan, then you really haven't watched Star Trek. I even wonder if you "get it" beyond the special effects and flashiness. I suggest you watch TOS first, which is enough to understand Vulcan culture.

You make about the best case possible for why this reboot was absolutely necessary. No one is going to want to get into a show when other alleged fans will look down their noses at them for not having an encyclopedic knowledge of 40 years worth of obscure trivia about a fictional culture.

 

[seniorsleuth]

Good points, but I will still stand by the idea that to overcome such a cultural taboo so quickly is actually impossible for realistic characters in any story,especially in light of the destruction of the planet, not just in Star Trek and it took me "out of" the movie.

I don't think we need to assume that the change was that abrupt. The timeline alteration beginning with Nero's destruction of the Kelvin could have affected Spock's attitude toward his "two worlds" in a number of ways prior to the destruction of Vulcan. Maybe there were Vulcans on the Kelvin, for instance, and Spock learned of the heroic yet emotional human who sacrificed his life for theirs?

I think the fact that Spock was having some sort of relationship with Uhura at all is evidence that the changes were ongoing. Perhaps in a future film we'll get a hint of exactly how the timeline differences may have affected him all along. But, if one believes in the "butterfly effect," it would not take much.

 

[donners22]

He's also betraying his arranged wife, since Amok Time hasn't happened yet...

I think the telling issue is that at my two screenings, people laughed when Uhura kissed Spock, just moments after the destruction of Vulcan. If it can completely take people out of what is meant to be an emotional moment, it has not worked.

 

[indranee]

He's also betraying his arranged wife, since Amok Time hasn't happened yet...

I think the telling issue is that at my two screenings, people laughed when Uhura kissed Spock, just moments after the destruction of Vulcan. If it can completely take people out of what is meant to be an emotional moment, it has not worked.

and Amok Time may never happen in THIS timeline. poor you

plus, as you said, if Amok Time hasn't happened YET... he's not betraying her.

HAH!

btw, nobody, NOBODY in my theater laughed at the kiss. and I've seen it five times.

care to provide some proof?

 

[datas_cat_spot]

He's also betraying his arranged wife, since Amok Time hasn't happened yet...

I think the telling issue is that at my two screenings, people laughed when Uhura kissed Spock, just moments after the destruction of Vulcan. If it can completely take people out of what is meant to be an emotional moment, it has not worked.

Anecdotal reference ftw!

 

[zambingo]

He's also betraying his arranged wife, since Amok Time hasn't happened yet...

I think the telling issue is that at my two screenings, people laughed when Uhura kissed Spock, just moments after the destruction of Vulcan. If it can completely take people out of what is meant to be an emotional moment, it has not worked.

I think that is more of an indicator of how cynical our culture has become.

If my birth country was just wiped off the planet... oh yeah and my Mom just died... I'd expect and would receive a moment of compassion and affection from my wife.

Uhura did not rip her shirt off and thrust her chest into Spock's face.

The two characters shared a tender moment.

GAWD! facepalm?