Betrayal (DS9 #6)

[Nerys Ghemor]

I finally had to start this thread.

I was wondering if anybody else here enjoyed Lois Tilton's DS9 novel, Betrayal.

I believe (though I am not sure) that it was written before the series had aired, so it's got its flaws...reading it years later, I know, for instance, that some of the stuff in there about Cardassian culture isn't correct--such as there being a political party that pulled all that garbage. (However, in my mind, I've retconned that to something True Way-related, which seems fitting considering some of the goings-on.) And you have to forgive the cover art...using Akellen Macet to represent that prick Marak is wrong on SO many levels.

Still...that novel really made an impression on me when I read it 12 years ago or so. I think a lot of it had to do with the character of Berat--Tilton REALLY got me pulling for him. I mean, the poor guy just couldn't catch a break!

Anyone else remember this one fondly?

(I'm sure some will mainly remember only the errors I already mentioned. But if at all possible, I'd like to keep this thread positive.)

 

[Christopher]

^I don't quite see how the idea of Cardassia having political factions is necessarily irreconcilable with canon -- certainly not as it was known in the early years of the series.

Anyway, you might want to read #10, Valhalla by Nathan Archer. It's sort of a prequel to Betrayal, exploring an earlier stage of the Cardassian political machinations introduced in Tilton's novel.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I'll see if I still have that one on hand.

Anyway--as I already stated once, that's quite forgivable considering the book was very likely written before DS9 ever aired. I think I made it clear that I was cutting some slack for that and that's why I DID NOT consider it fair grounds for criticism; I don't know how you missed that.

But I believe I started this thread to discuss the good things.

 

[Astraea]

This was my favorite DS9 pre-Relaunch novel. It's amazing how long it's been - I was in elementary school when it came out! I didn't like Valhalla as much, although I can't provide any coherent reason why; I don't remember Valhalla that well.

All these old-novel threads really make me want to re-read the books. Curses! (I have over a dozen new books to read, and I just got done being sidetracked re-reading old stuff - I've re-read my four favorite Jane Austen novels since Tuesday.)

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

If I could PM you, there's more I would say...but for the meantime, I thought you might be interested in seeing something I asked the incredible Rabbitooth to design for me. I wonder if this is anything close to how you pictured Berat: http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=2307262&postcount=18

 

[Christopher]

Anyway--as I already stated once, that's quite forgivable considering the book was very likely written before DS9 ever aired. I think I made it clear that I was cutting some slack for that and that's why I DID NOT consider it fair grounds for criticism; I don't know how you missed that.

My point is that I don't see how it's wildly inconsistent with canon in the first place, so I'm not sure why it would need to be cut any slack.

By the way, according to Voyages of the Imagination, the reason Valhalla is more-or-less a prequel to Betrayal is that it was originally going to be the third or fourth DS9 novel but it got delayed. In fact, because of the delay, it had a brief reference to the Defiant awkwardly inserted even though it's supposed to be set in the first season.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Anyway--as I already stated once, that's quite forgivable considering the book was very likely written before DS9 ever aired. I think I made it clear that I was cutting some slack for that and that's why I DID NOT consider it fair grounds for criticism; I don't know how you missed that.

My point is that I don't see how it's wildly inconsistent with canon in the first place, so I'm not sure why it would need to be cut any slack.

The political structure I got in my head, based on the description in Betrayal, was that there was some kind of Cardassian legislature for which political parties might need to form. A puppet legislature, to be sure, much as such houses are in nations where there is only an appearance of democracy, but that there was at least some pretense of democracy. Perhaps we could imagine this as the Detapa Council--but that all hinges on how long the Detapa Council was defunct before the dissident movement revived it. From what we learned later in the show, I got a distinct impression that the military junta had ruled directly for quite some time, rather than there having been a legislative branch.

 

[Christopher]

^^According to Memory Alpha, the Detapa Council formed in the 19th century and had nominal power over the government, although in practice Central Command and the Obsidian Order ran the show and the Council was their puppet. Which sounds fairly consistent with what you describe in the book.

From what I remember, the party in question was known as the Revanchist Party, which means a party dedicated to reclaiming lost territory (i.e. Bajor). I may be forgetting some details, but I never saw it as a democratic thing, more a clash of factions within the military government. Even in a military dictatorship, there can be different factions within the military jockeying for leadership. And I suppose they could call themselves parties if they wanted to.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I remember the Detapa Council being around for quite some time--however, it seems it was deposed at some point, hence the need to reinstall it, which as I recall was exploited by the Changeling Martok to justify the Klingon invasion of Cardassia. I suppose the key question as to which configuration we're looking at would be to find out just how long the Union went with no Detapa Council at all.

BTW, on a different subject...does Ms. Tilton happen to post here at all?

 

[Christopher]

I remember the Detapa Council being around for quite some time--however, it seems it was deposed at some point, hence the need to reinstall it, which as I recall was exploited by the Changeling Martok to justify the Klingon invasion of Cardassia. I suppose the key question as to which configuration we're looking at would be to find out just how long the Union went with no Detapa Council at all.

The Detapa Council was around the whole time, but as you said, it was only a puppet legislature; it was nominally the body that governed Cardassia and gave CC and the OO their orders, but in practice they usually just did what the CC and OO told them. But not always; it was the Council that made the decision to withdraw from Bajor over the objection of Central Command. So even at the start of DS9, they had some actual authority.

But after the Obsidian Order was nearly wiped out by the Dominion, that changed the balance of power, so the Council, along with the dissident movement, was able to overthrow Central Command. The Council wasn't reinstalled after having been dissolved; rather, it dissolved the dominant branch of government and took over as the leading body rather than a secondary (or tertiary) one.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Okay, fine--we'll go with whatever you say if that'll allow this thread to go back to the focus I intended it to have.

 

[Christopher]

^^What are you talking about? The "focus" you presumably intended this thread to have was the novel Betrayal. That's what we've been discussing, in what I thought was an amiable and civilized fashion. It's not my place to "allow" it to go in any direction, any more than it's your place to chastise me for taking it in a direction you didn't expect. This is a public forum, and the members are free to discuss whatever aspects of the book they wish. So you're way out of line here.

 

[LightningStorm]

Christopher, I think you're overreacting as there was no chastisement in Nerys Ghemor's post. And rather than potentially inflaming any situation by accusing someone of being "out of line," if you really feel you've been wronged in some way let's use the "Notify Mod" button rather than going about it this way.

Thanks

 

[Marie1]

I'm not familiar with this one, NG, is it in that list you sent me a while ago? The members here have been doing a great job suggesting Trek Lit I should look into, and I've been trying to build a text file of it. (Being snowed in, atm).

Is the novel mostly "political" or are the theme's your discussing a reaction to another conflict? When did Lois Tilton write this novel? It sounds like its been a while (12 years, so 96?), so I may be able to find it.

How does it fit in with other Cardassian themes novels? FS part 2 would probably be too recent, but what about ASiT?

I think tensions are just high around here, lately anyway. I just wanted to tell you NG, and anyone else, that if I miss a post directed at me, and I've been posting away, feel free to PM me. I may have missed it, or read it, meant to reply later, and lost the thread (its been happening a lot).

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

The book was written in '94, actually...I just went and took a look at my copy.

The politics are really only important for how it sets up the awful situation the lead Cardassian character, Berat, gets into.

At that time, A Stitch in Time only existed in fragments in Andrew Robinson's head, so there wouldn't be any connection whatsoever.

 

[Astraea]

Just finished re-reading it. A few notes:

I found it rather amusing that Garak was suspected of blowing up his own shop, several seasons before he actually did it.

There's a Q-Less reference, so I'm not entirely sure of the comment that this was written before the series ever aired; at the very least, they had access to some knowledge about the Sisko-Q sparring match, and Q-Less was the seventh episode of the season.

I think the picture of Berat in the link looks excellent, although I have to add the caveat that I'm not entirely good at doing mental casting of aliens in my head. (I did imagine Berat with blue eyes, though, as per Nog's comment, "They look alike. Sort of.")

 

[Stevil2001]

There's a Q-Less reference, so I'm not entirely sure of the comment that this was written before the series ever aired; at the very least, they had access to some knowledge about the Sisko-Q sparring match, and Q-Less was the seventh episode of the season.

Presumably, they would have let Lois Tilton read some scripts.

I remember liking Betrayal, but I do not remember more than that. One of the good early DS9 novels.

 

[Christopher]

According to Voyages of the Imagination, Tilton wrote the original MS before any episodes had aired, basing her story on an "outline" of the series, as she calls it (perhaps the series bible); but then she got to see early episodes of the show in time for the revision phase, so she was able to keep things consistent. So presumably the reference to "Q-less" would've been added during revisions.

(Note for overseas readers: I'm using "revisions" in the American sense of modifications, alterations, etc., rather than the British sense, which I gather means studying, review, that sort of thing.)

 

[DimesDan]

(Note for overseas readers: I'm using "revisions" in the American sense of modifications, alterations, etc., rather than the British sense, which I gather means studying, review, that sort of thing.)

Being Non American myself, I do actually use revision is the American context and not the British one from time to time

 

[Marie1]

^^ That works, since according to IMDB, Q-less was aired 7 February 1993, and NG confirms the book was published in '94, so there was, if I understand this process at all, time to include that reference.

A lot of people don't like that episode, but I did. And Garak! I need to get my heads on this book!