Betrayal (DS9 #6)

[Anthony Sabre]

Skip Rebels. I don't know that anybody actually liked those books.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

Thanks for the heads up. The cover art did make them look sort of... young adultish. But seeing as how the author also wrote Fallen Heroes, I was hoping those might be good as well.

 

[Marie1]

I wouldn't miss something good to read them... but they do have some interesting parts IIRC, some interesting stuff about Winn.

 

[Trent Roman]

Thanks for the heads up. The cover art did make them look sort of... young adultish. But seeing as how the author also wrote Fallen Heroes, I was hoping those might be good as well.

Fallen Heroes is indeed a very good book... which makes the wide miss of Rebels all the more surprising, but no less mind-numbing. (Also, those covers are generic, related only thematically to the contents.)

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Thor Damar]

Thanks for the heads up. The cover art did make them look sort of... young adultish. But seeing as how the author also wrote Fallen Heroes, I was hoping those might be good as well.

Fallen Heroes is indeed a very good book... which makes the wide miss of Rebels all the more surprising, but no less mind-numbing. (Also, those covers are generic, related only thematically to the contents.)

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

True, although I did find the adventures of the young Winn Adami to be quite interesting. Sadly it was the only real interesting aspect of the whole Trilogy.

 

[Trent Roman]

^That was actually one of the things that bugged me the most. Winn is a hypocrite, a religious fundamentalist, a terrorist and a theocrat, but these books radically mischaracterized her as some kind of misunderstood heroine whose hard edges conceal a good person. (Ever since discovering ab Hugh's extreme right-wing political affiliations, I've wondered if that could account for his apologist portrayal of Winn.)

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Thor Damar]

^That was actually one of the things that bugged me the most. Winn is a hypocrite, a religious fundamentalist, a terrorist and a theocrat, but these books radically mischaracterized her as some kind of misunderstood heroine whose hard edges conceal a good person. (Ever since discovering ab Hugh's extreme right-wing political affiliations, I've wondered if that could account for his apologist portrayal of Winn.)

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

Yeah, and perhaps that just shows how mediocre the trilogy actually was. I don't think his politics got in the way, he just wasn't very good.

Fallen Heroes was great and Vengeance is a good read also.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

^That was actually one of the things that bugged me the most. Winn is a hypocrite, a religious fundamentalist, a terrorist and a theocrat, but these books radically mischaracterized her as some kind of misunderstood heroine whose hard edges conceal a good person.

Or...random thought here...perhaps while she was in the middle of the crisis, it was easier for her to know what to stand for, morally.

But when she got into power...well, the power corrupted. And she died the moral death of a thousand tiny compromises that finally snowballed into the ultimate compromise.

That's the insidious thing about evil. It's easy to recognize the great evils. Not so easy to recognize the "little" ones. And sometimes it's the "little" ones that kill you.

 

[Thor Damar]

^That was actually one of the things that bugged me the most. Winn is a hypocrite, a religious fundamentalist, a terrorist and a theocrat, but these books radically mischaracterized her as some kind of misunderstood heroine whose hard edges conceal a good person.

Or...random thought here...perhaps while she was in the middle of the crisis, it was easier for her to know what to stand for, morally.

But when she got into power...well, the power corrupted. And she died the moral death of a thousand tiny compromises that finally snowballed into the ultimate compromise.

That's the insidious thing about evil. It's easy to recognize the great evils. Not so easy to recognize the "little" ones. And sometimes it's the "little" ones that kill you.

In Winn's case it was a PahWraith processed Dukat that killed her.

 

[Marie1]

^ Well yes, but what set that up... she wanted more power than the Prophets could give her, she didn't seem to know how to cope with not having a real enemy once the Cardassians were gone, so she got political enemies.

Wow... are we ever off topic... Oops!!

Okay, if you were in Berat's shoes, your father and uncles IIRC had been hung for days, and now it's time for the stoning- not for a real crime, but for that political absurdity. Someone hands you a rock. Do you throw it?

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I dearly hope not.





But I also know that we can never say what we will do in a moment like THAT until it's upon us.

That's the sad truth about human (and probably Cardassian) nature.

It was, after all, the most faithful disciple who denied three times...

 

[Trent Roman]

Or...random thought here...perhaps while she was in the middle of the crisis, it was easier for her to know what to stand for, morally.

But when she got into power...well, the power corrupted. And she died the moral death of a thousand tiny compromises that finally snowballed into the ultimate compromise.

The first time we met her, she blew up a school and tried to assassinate a political rival. That's not a 'tiny compromise'. In any case, from my vague memories of the series, it did not provide a reason why Winn would have become the person we met, and her characterization in the present sequences differed little from the biographical glimpses into her past. (That Kira should come to a grudging respect of Winn as a person, rather than as Kai, was particularly sickening, since Winn is exactly the opposite of Kira, a person who feigns faith for selfish advancement). I much preferred her characterization in the Terok Nor books, which showed her calculating nature.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Marie1]

Holy cow!! I forgot that School thing! And the Bajoran tech assassin she hired... ahhh!

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Or...random thought here...perhaps while she was in the middle of the crisis, it was easier for her to know what to stand for, morally.

But when she got into power...well, the power corrupted. And she died the moral death of a thousand tiny compromises that finally snowballed into the ultimate compromise.

The first time we met her, she blew up a school and tried to assassinate a political rival. That's not a 'tiny compromise'. In any case, from my vague memories of the series, it did not provide a reason why Winn would have become the person we met, and her characterization in the present sequences differed little from the biographical glimpses into her past. (That Kira should come to a grudging respect of Winn as a person, rather than as Kai, was particularly sickening, since Winn is exactly the opposite of Kira, a person who feigns faith for selfish advancement). I much preferred her characterization in the Terok Nor books, which showed her calculating nature.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

I think the "tiny compromises" would've happened before we ever saw her blow up the school, personally. But that's just me, if we were to accept the Rebels books.

 

[T'Ressa Dax]

That's what I was thinking... I don't actually remember much abotu Rebels anymore, except possibly delaying reading them because I was unsure if I'd like them.

 

[Marie1]

I dearly hope not.





But I also know that we can never say what we will do in a moment like THAT until it's upon us.

That's the sad truth about human (and probably Cardassian) nature.

It was, after all, the most faithful disciple who denied three times...

I'd like to think I wouldn't either.
I wonder what would have happened to Berat after... it probably wouldn't have been good. But he must've learned the system wasn't perfect, that Dukat's "Cardassians don't make mistakes" was nonsense...

Or...random thought here...perhaps while she was in the middle of the crisis, it was easier for her to know what to stand for, morally.

But when she got into power...well, the power corrupted. And she died the moral death of a thousand tiny compromises that finally snowballed into the ultimate compromise.

The first time we met her, she blew up a school and tried to assassinate a political rival. That's not a 'tiny compromise'. In any case, from my vague memories of the series, it did not provide a reason why Winn would have become the person we met, and her characterization in the present sequences differed little from the biographical glimpses into her past. (That Kira should come to a grudging respect of Winn as a person, rather than as Kai, was particularly sickening, since Winn is exactly the opposite of Kira, a person who feigns faith for selfish advancement). I much preferred her characterization in the Terok Nor books, which showed her calculating nature.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

I think the "tiny compromises" would've happened before we ever saw her blow up the school, personally. But that's just me, if we were to accept the Rebels books.

I'm trying to remember what she did in Rebels... didn't it paint her as a rebel in her own way, as someone who was tough? Sometimes after a conflict people start doing strange things...

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I dearly hope not.

But I also know that we can never say what we will do in a moment like THAT until it's upon us.

That's the sad truth about human (and probably Cardassian) nature.

It was, after all, the most faithful disciple who denied three times...

I'd like to think I wouldn't either.
I wonder what would have happened to Berat after... it probably wouldn't have been good. But he must've learned the system wasn't perfect, that Dukat's "Cardassians don't make mistakes" was nonsense...

Indeed...I have to imagine that, plus the exposure to non-Cardassians who proved themselves to be decent people (AND seeing what his own people tried to do to them) would have had some sort of impact on him.

 

[Marie1]

Definitely! Man, I wish he'd crop up again with all his experiences!

 

[Thor Damar]

Definitely! Man, I wish he'd crop up again with all his experiences!

Indeed, it would be great if he was name checked or even made an appearance in NES.

I'm also hoping for a few Damar scenes as well, naturally!

 

[Marie1]

Given the time covered in NES, I'll die of shock if we don't see Damar...

Now that you mention it, he could come up in NES, couldn't he... we may get our wish! I do not want to see Marak again though!! Yuck...

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Yeah, Marak needed a taste of his own medicine, and badly.