For all that is right with TWOK, the plot has more holes than a block of Swiss cheese.
Best Villains?
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For all that is right with TWOK, the plot has more holes than a block of Swiss cheese.
Yes. It's flawed, the villain is stupid, the plot isn't watertight, but it works with audiences because it gets a lot right. It draws the viewer in and allows us to form an emotional connection, which is why most people are willing to overlook the film's imperfections. That's what I think, at least.
Few of those films have 'villains' - or even serious antagonists - bar Khan (STII & Darkness). V'ger is probably the greatest antagonist when you consider the stakes (Whale Probe was a lazy re-run). But I'll give a bone to Hardy's Shinzon, in trying at least to do 'something' with an ill-defined character that had potential. The Borg are boring, bar Krige. As for the rest....zzzzz
For me, the best villains remain: Khan and Soran. Special mention to ST: TMP, simply because it's idea of an antagonist seems to be more in line with the original series.
For all the talk of his brilliance, Khan was an elitist driven by anger and revenge and it certainly clouded his better judgement. And the best part is he wasn't a new villain shoved in, he was already established with an episode.
One of the things not touched on to a great extent, are the consequences of actions in the Trek universe, and the Borg creating a villain out of a person who might have simply gone to to lead a life of scientific study and research on his home world, created an unlikely adversary; an adversary not driven by revenge, power, wealth, simply the want to be in a happier place where he might join his family again. Unfortunately this strong desire yeilded truly evil actions.
TSfS had a midiocre Klingon adversary seemingly just to fill a void.
TVH[/i] had no villain, instead opting for a phallic-shapred probe with one ball that decided to tear apart the home environment of the one species of whale it can't find (fuck all the other whales, right).
TFF just featued a delusional man who went too far to see his goal achieved. Not necessarily a villain.
TUC is a second palce runner up for the best villains placing.
ST: FCwas crap. It ruined the Borg almost as much as Voyager did, and gave us a lead villain who seems to be rather inept for such a superior power.
Insurrection -- please, this was a joke. Likewise Nemesis. To think back that these are how the TNG movies ended, makes you just want to balfe all over the place. No proper send off, just a giant galactic middle finger.
For all the talk of his brilliance, Khan was an elitist driven by anger and revenge and it certainly clouded his better judgement. And the best part is he wasn't a new villain shoved in, he was already established with an episode.
One of the things not touched on to a great extent, are the consequences of actions in the Trek universe, and the Borg creating a villain out of a person who might have simply gone to to lead a life of scientific study and research on his home world, created an unlikely adversary; an adversary not driven by revenge, power, wealth, simply the want to be in a happier place where he might join his family again. Unfortunately this strong desire yeilded truly evil actions.
TSfS had a midiocre Klingon adversary seemingly just to fill a void.
TVH[/i] had no villain, instead opting for a phallic-shapred probe with one ball that decided to tear apart the home environment of the one species of whale it can't find (fuck all the other whales, right).
TFF just featued a delusional man who went too far to see his goal achieved. Not necessarily a villain.
TUC is a second palce runner up for the best villains placing.
ST: FCwas crap. It ruined the Borg almost as much as Voyager did, and gave us a lead villain who seems to be rather inept for such a superior power.
Insurrection -- please, this was a joke. Likewise Nemesis. To think back that these are how the TNG movies ended, makes you just want to balfe all over the place. No proper send off, just a giant galactic middle finger.
Paradise City and The Overlord,
I skimmed some of your back and forth. Wow, you guys are awesome. Paradise City, I've long thought like The Overlord regarding Shinzon, and I still do, however those were some really neat historical examples you pulled with Napoleon and Hitler.
I do take issue Paradise City with what you said about people not caring about the Romulans. I mean did people care about the unseen inhabitants that would've been murdered if Soran had successfully altered the Nexus? Or even after seeing the friendly, paradise aliens in Insurrection, how many of us really cared about their fates? With the Romulans being one of the major species in Trek, with a long history, it seems like some people would care a bit more about them being in peril. Beyond that though I think much could've been made of the Enterprise risking all to save the Romulans. I think that would've been more in the spirit of Trek than another Earth is in danger story. And maybe it could've resulted in peace with the Romulans, ending the TNG movies on a high note. I think they emulated the wrong film anyway. They should've looked more to Undiscovered Country for inspiration and not Wrath of Khan.
As for Shinzon's motivations, I say why take two steps when you can take one. Perhaps the more complex motivations would've worked better in a novel, where you can flesh them out. But Shinzon and the Remans wanting to destroy Romulus just made more sense to me.
I skimmed some of your back and forth. Wow, you guys are awesome. Paradise City, I've long thought like The Overlord regarding Shinzon, and I still do, however those were some really neat historical examples you pulled with Napoleon and Hitler.
I do take issue Paradise City with what you said about people not caring about the Romulans. I mean did people care about the unseen inhabitants that would've been murdered if Soran had successfully altered the Nexus? Or even after seeing the friendly, paradise aliens in Insurrection, how many of us really cared about their fates? With the Romulans being one of the major species in Trek, with a long history, it seems like some people would care a bit more about them being in peril. Beyond that though I think much could've been made of the Enterprise risking all to save the Romulans. I think that would've been more in the spirit of Trek than another Earth is in danger story. And maybe it could've resulted in peace with the Romulans, ending the TNG movies on a high note. I think they emulated the wrong film anyway. They should've looked more to Undiscovered Country for inspiration and not Wrath of Khan.
As for Shinzon's motivations, I say why take two steps when you can take one. Perhaps the more complex motivations would've worked better in a novel, where you can flesh them out. But Shinzon and the Remans wanting to destroy Romulus just made more sense to me.
And yet, it is still the best Star Trek movie, and the one all other Star Trek movies tried to ape or live up to in some way.
Wrath of Khan, First Contact and The Undiscovered Country.
Montalban's Khan with Cumberbatch and Krige not far behind
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